Round 1, 22 changes

[cecil]

Has it been confirmed who will lead your ruck division this year, it looks like a 50/50 between trengove and roughhead at the moment as to who will start ruck.

We don't really play a dominant ruck. Bevo prefers to play two and split their time on ball to wear down an opposition ruck. I would say it's Roughy/Trengove/Boyd/English in that order.

 

[Schulzenfest]

You forgot:

2017: In a sensationally stupid move that everyone thought was idiotic at the time, gets left out of Port’s Elimination Final team and watches on as Port win the inside 50s 63-46 but Todd Marshall takes 3 marks and kicks 0.0 and Clurey & Howard get killed by Kennedy, squib Darling and a completely cooked Drew Petrie who combine for 8 of the Eagles’ 12 goals in a 2 point Eagles victory.

And since we'd all agree that 3 marks and 0 goals is an unacceptable output for a key forward, Trengove had 3 marks or less in 12 out of his 19 games up forward last year, and kicked zero goals in 8 out of his 19 games last year. He's not a forward.

 

[Freezin]

Only blessing with Adams injury is that Wood surely heads back to defence....who would of thought a man of Adams stature would struggle to get a body capable of handling the rigours of AFL footy....or should I replace stature with luck...gutting news to say the least

 

[fronkalicious]

Is cordy, wood and naughton enough to take on GWS???

Hoping we don’t bring in Roberts or Collins.

Rather see Boyd play and Trengove rest back (if not playing back and giving a chop out in the ruck).

 

[TiAn_]

And since we'd all agree that 3 marks and 0 goals is an unacceptable output for a key forward, Trengove had 3 marks or less in 12 out of his 19 games up forward last year, and kicked zero goals in 8 out of his 19 games last year. He's not a forward.

I agree.

He's also much better than your lopsided assessment.

 

[Schulzenfest]

I agree.

He's also much better than your lopsided assessment.

As a backman, yeah he is. As a ruckman he’ll get killed in the hitouts but he does offer a lot around the ground. As a forward, nup.

This isn’t me coming here and being bitter about him leaving. I completely understand his reasons for leaving, and I’d still love to see him succeed. The fact that I still want to see him succeed is exactly why I really hope your club’s coaches don’t let him go anywhere near the forward line. Because I’ve seen what happened when my club’s coaches let him go anywhere near the forward line, and it wasn’t good for Trengove or good for the club.

 

[Libba39]

Updated sans Adams...

FB: WOOD Trengove Crozier
HB: Williams Naughton Johannisen
C: Macrae Liberatore Hunter
HF: Suckling Cordy Maclean
FF: Dickson Schache Daniel
FOL: Roughead Bontempelli Dahlhaus
INT: Jong Biggs Dale Dunkley

Assumptions - Picko, Boyd, Wallis and Red not available.

Sneaking suspicion that Richards might come in if anyone else doesn't come up for round 1.

 

[joel_billo]

Naughton Trengove cordy

Jj wood crozier

Hunter bont daniel

Dahl t boyd mclean

Smith dunkley dale


Roughead libba mccrae


Bench: Wallis jong suckling biggs

 

[stefoid]

TRengrove seems like a good bet playing back which is his preferred position against this opponent.

 

[Bazza Bulldog]

Did anyone go today - aside from Grizzly's injury I can't find a report anywhere?

 

[castro]

FB: Cordy. Roughead. Crozier
HB: Naughton. Sucking. Biggs

C: Libba Macrae. Hunter

HF. Wood. Dahlhaus. Johannisen
FF. Dunkley. Boyd. Dale

Follower: Trengove. Bont. McLean

Interchange: Daniel Picken Wallis Smith/Dickson



On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Lets assume that we don't move Trengove or Wood back in defence. Lets say that Suckling gets moved back, but JJ is playing on the wing/half forward.

What exactly is our 7 man defensive rotation?

Biggs, ???, Naughton
Suckling, Cordy, Croizer

Williams (bench)

I'm as much of an optimist as the next Dogs fan but that surely doesn't fill any of us with confidence.

We've got: Biggs who whilst being a battler and a great role player is only a hair or two better than being a fringe player. Naughton who looks ready made, but is still playing his first game. Suckling who polarises supporters, but we can all agree by in effect having a role as a specialist long kick needs to be a player who has his weaknesses covered defensive structure and teammates in general. Cordy who is young and improving but at the end of the day is still a slightly undersized KPD and still a very young player. And Croizer who has looked good so far in pre-season, but was still a fringeyish type player for a bottom team at Freo. Then you got Williams who I'm big on, lacks a bit of accelaration, but makes up for that by being 188cm and being able to defend key defenders in a pinch if required. And he finds plenty of the pill. But at the end of the day he's a 3rd year player who was a later draft pick for a reason and still in terms of helping us win games a fringe player.

Then for ???, you've got one of four sensible options: One of Collins, Roberts or Young, or you got a bloke who's been training forward all year in Trengove moving forward. Those first two weren't making our team last year, and Young shouldn't have been if we weren't trying to develop him.

Plus we don't have a forward line.

Bevo could have the best coaching year of any of the 18 coaches and still not take that team to finals I think.

 

[bobby2]

Lets assume that we don't move Trengove or Wood back in defence. Lets say that Suckling gets moved back, but JJ is playing on the wing/half forward.

What exactly is our 7 man defensive rotation?

Biggs, ???, Naughton
Suckling, Cordy, Croizer

Williams (bench)

I'm as much of an optimist as the next Dogs fan but that surely doesn't fill any of us with confidence.

We've got: Biggs who whilst being a battler and a great role player is only a hair or two better than being a fringe player. Naughton who looks ready made, but is still playing his first game. Suckling who polarises supporters, but we can all agree by in effect having a role as a specialist long kick needs to be a player who has his weaknesses covered defensive structure and teammates in general. Cordy who is young and improving but at the end of the day is still a slightly undersized KPD and still a very young player. And Croizer who has looked good so far in pre-season, but was still a fringeyish type player for a bottom team at Freo. Then you got Williams who I'm big on, lacks a bit of accelaration, but makes up for that by being 188cm and being able to defend key defenders in a pinch if required. And he finds plenty of the pill. But at the end of the day he's a 3rd year player who was a later draft pick for a reason and still in terms of helping us win games a fringe player.

Then for ???, you've got one of four sensible options: One of Collins, Roberts or Young, or you got a bloke who's been training forward all year in Trengove moving forward. Those first two weren't making our team last year, and Young shouldn't have been if we weren't trying to develop him.

Plus we don't have a forward line.

Bevo could have the best coaching year of any of the 18 coaches and still not take that team to finals I think.

If that backline performs the way you're suggesting it will, and Bevo leaves Wood and Trengove forward, then he is not having anywhere near the best coaching year.

Honestly, if you replace Williams with wood and put Roberts/trengove at full back, it doesn't look that bad. I think you're underrating Biggs, who is a genuinely good defender, while Crozier's form as a forward in a team who plays a completely different gamestyle is irrelevant.

Roberts is seriously underrated on this board at the moment. 9 months ago, he was the reigning premiership full back and in the top 5 in our BnF after round 8. He had a poor finish to 2017, like a lot of his teammates. We then brought in a few sexier talls, and we've all spent the summer playing best 22s and depth charts. Now the talls are injured, our preseason best 22s are irrelevant and it's time for Fletch to remind us all that he is a competent defender.

 

[BRWB]

If that backline performs the way you're suggesting it will, and Bevo leaves Wood and Trengove forward, then he is not having anywhere near the best coaching year.

Honestly, if you replace Williams with wood and put Roberts/trengove at full back, it doesn't look that bad. I think you're underrating Biggs, who is a genuinely good defender, while Crozier's form as a forward in a team who plays a completely different gamestyle is irrelevant.

Roberts is seriously underrated on this board at the moment. 9 months ago, he was the reigning premiership full back and in the top 5 in our BnF after round 8. He had a poor finish to 2017, like a lot of his teammates. We then brought in a few sexier talls, and we've all spent the summer playing best 22s and depth charts. Now the talls are injured, our preseason best 22s are irrelevant and it's time for Fletch to remind us all that he is a competent defender.

How do you underrate a key defender with one of the worst one on one records in the AFL (and that is before last season)? A seasoned fit player who cant get a game ahead of a plainly not ready and confidence shot Lewis Young? Go back and watch one of Fletch's last games for us against Port (I think) - a truly and disgustingly shite performance that sadly is not an isolated event. The MC were spot on not to pick Fletch after that.

If anything Fletch is overrated by many when even discussing him as a viable AFL player - just imo.

 

[BRWB]

Lets assume that we don't move Trengove or Wood back in defence. Lets say that Suckling gets moved back, but JJ is playing on the wing/half forward.

What exactly is our 7 man defensive rotation?

Biggs, ???, Naughton
Suckling, Cordy, Croizer

Williams (bench)

I'm as much of an optimist as the next Dogs fan but that surely doesn't fill any of us with confidence.

We've got: Biggs who whilst being a battler and a great role player is only a hair or two better than being a fringe player. Naughton who looks ready made, but is still playing his first game. Suckling who polarises supporters, but we can all agree by in effect having a role as a specialist long kick needs to be a player who has his weaknesses covered defensive structure and teammates in general. Cordy who is young and improving but at the end of the day is still a slightly undersized KPD and still a very young player. And Croizer who has looked good so far in pre-season, but was still a fringeyish type player for a bottom team at Freo. Then you got Williams who I'm big on, lacks a bit of accelaration, but makes up for that by being 188cm and being able to defend key defenders in a pinch if required. And he finds plenty of the pill. But at the end of the day he's a 3rd year player who was a later draft pick for a reason and still in terms of helping us win games a fringe player.

Then for ???, you've got one of four sensible options: One of Collins, Roberts or Young, or you got a bloke who's been training forward all year in Trengove moving forward. Those first two weren't making our team last year, and Young shouldn't have been if we weren't trying to develop him.

Plus we don't have a forward line.

Bevo could have the best coaching year of any of the 18 coaches and still not take that team to finals I think.

Gotta say I was puzzled when hearing Trengove and Wood weren't going to play in their best positions back.

Surely, Trengove goes back now. Wood should as well but I can see Bev sticking fat on Wood...I'm not sold on Wiliams back yet either.

Naughton Trengove Biggs
Crosier Cordy Suckling

Id prefer Wood back but if our fwd line is that bad (and it probably is )...then we may have to try Wood fwd. Id like to see Lewis Young fwd instead or Boyd or Schache if any were good enough.

 

[Bemoreboyddog]

I’d love to see Collins get a 6 week stint, like Ayce did. Bevo tells him in a year he’s out of contract - you’ve got six weeks mate. Show me what you’ve got. If you’re good you might keep your spot and get yourself an extension. If you’re not, at least you can start preparing for life after AFL football.

 

[BRWB]

I’d love to see Collins get a 6 week stint, like Ayce did. Bevo tells him in a year he’s out of contract - you’ve got six weeks mate. Show me what you’ve got. If you’re good you might keep your spot and get yourself an extension. If you’re not, at least you can start preparing for life after AFL football.

If the choice is Collins or Fletch, I'd take Collins for the reasons we've both listed.

 

[Next Waiting]

How do you underrate a key defender with one of the worst one on one records in the AFL (and that is before last season)? A seasoned fit player who cant get a game ahead of a plainly not ready and confidence shot Lewis Young? Go back and watch one of Fletch's last games for us against Port (I think) - a truly and disgustingly shite performance that sadly is not an isolated event. The MC were spot on not to pick Fletch after that.

If anything Fletch is overrated by many when even discussing him as a viable AFL player - just imo.

Fletch is proficient within a functioning defensive system IMO. He is an intelligent player who reads space and the ball well in the air but is suspect when isolated one on one against bigger and faster players. These limitations are well known and not in dispute.

The problem for our defence, and indeed our forward attack will be the amount of possession we allow our opponents and the amount of pressure that is exerted on the possession they get. It all comes back to clearance and stoppage work IMO. We were poor there last year, and pretty easy to score against, but not in 2016 when Fletch was a solid contributor through our finals run.

I'm OK with him stepping in as needed. He does know and understand defensive systems and has experienced what pressure situations look like and what it takes to successfully work through them as a defensive unit. That might be what's needed at present. Long term though, Lewis Young seems like he has far more scope. Not physically or mentally there yet though.

 

[bobby2]

How do you underrate a key defender with one of the worst one on one records in the AFL (and that is before last season)? A seasoned fit player who cant get a game ahead of a plainly not ready and confidence shot Lewis Young? Go back and watch one of Fletch's last games for us against Port (I think) - a truly and disgustingly shite performance that sadly is not an isolated event. The MC were spot on not to pick Fletch after that.

If anything Fletch is overrated by many when even discussing him as a viable AFL player - just imo.

I think you are answering your own question. You can underrate him by focusing solely on his negative traits and worst games.

Clearly he is a viable AFL player- just ask Jeremy Cameron and Kurt Tippett how many times they touched the ball in the 2016 finals. You can't play well in a prelim and grand final, then follow it up with being top 5 in the BnF of a team sitting 5-3 if you aren't a viable AFL player. That's ten consecutive games of being not just a viable player, but a good player. I agree he was poor in his two games after that, but that doesn't make him unviable going forward.

I think he's been underrated by this board as a whole in the last six months or so. Have you even seen anyone saying he is a viable AFL player recently (other than me at the moment)? He's probably been overrated at times in the past, and may be overrated again in the future. I'm overrating him now, but collectively across this board, he is currently underrated.

Like Dunkley being underrated here until the JLT started, I think it's a bit of a case of "out of sight, out of mind". I'm not comparing them as players, just their situations.

 

[BRWB]

Fletch is proficient within a functioning defensive system IMO. He is an intelligent player who reads space and the ball well in the air but is suspect when isolated one on one against bigger and faster players. These limitations are well known and not in dispute.

The problem for our defence, and indeed our forward attack will be the amount of possession we allow our opponents and the amount of pressure that is exerted on the possession they get. It all comes back to clearance and stoppage work IMO. We were poor there last year, and pretty easy to score against, but not in 2016 when Fletch was a solid contributor through our finals run.

I'm OK with him stepping in as needed. He does know and understand defensive systems and has experienced what pressure situations look like and what it takes to successfully work through them as a defensive unit. That might be what's needed at present. Long term though, Lewis Young seems like he has far more scope. Not physically or mentally there yet though.

Yeah was just thinking why Fletch was.seemingly half ok in 16 and you've nailed it. Thing is unless we are dominating in the middle and applying massive fwd pressure, Fletch will be exposed one.on one - and lets face it just about every KPF is quicker, stronger and/or faster than Fletch. Just don't see why we'd bother with Trengove around.

Put another way the nett cost of playing Campbell or Boyd in the ruck to accomodate Trengove back is far less than having Fletch back to accomodate Trengove in the ruck.

 

[BRWB]

I think you are answering your own question. You can underrate him by focusing solely on his negative traits and worst games.

Clearly he is a viable AFL player- just ask Jeremy Cameron and Kurt Tippett how many times they touched the ball in the 2016 finals. You can't play well in a prelim and grand final, then follow it up with being top 5 in the BnF of a team sitting 5-3 if you aren't a viable AFL player. That's ten consecutive games of being not just a viable player, but a good player. I agree he was poor in his two games after that, but that doesn't make him unviable going forward.

I think he's been underrated by this board as a whole in the last six months or so. Have you even seen anyone saying he is a viable AFL player recently (other than me at the moment)? He's probably been overrated at times in the past, and may be overrated again in the future. I'm overrating him now, but collectively across this board, he is currently underrated.

Like Dunkley being underrated here until the JLT started, I think it's a bit of a case of "out of sight, out of mind". I'm not comparing them as players, just their situations.

Nah m8 we just rate him differently. As above unless the mids and fwd are locking it in, dominating possession and running back to support, fletch will likely be beaten - beaten more than just about any other KPD in the league.

So no, i dont think he is a viable AFL player, just the fact he remains on an AFL list says he has been overrated IMO. You rate him thats fine -.we just seem to assess that what makes a viable Kpd at Afl level completely differently.

And ps im a dunkley fan even if he cant kick.

 

[Next Waiting]

Yeah was just thinking why Fletch was.seemingly half ok in 16 and you've nailed it. Thing is unless we are dominating in the middle and applying massive fwd pressure, Fletch will be exposed one.on one - and lets face it just about every KPF is quicker, stronger and/or faster than Fletch. Just don't see why we'd bother with Trengove around.

Put another way the nett cost of playing Campbell or Boyd in the ruck to accomodate Trengove back is far less than having Fletch back to accomodate Trengove in the ruck.

So I think he (Fletch) actually reads the game as well, if not better, than our other key defenders and has a positive influence when we're in possession. He has a cool head and makes good decisions. However, as you say, when we're under the pump and he's faced with a lot of one on one contests he simply gets out-paced and out-muscled and it can be expensive.

Campbell as a net gain is debatable. Boyd Ok. If we turn in a particularly dominant season around clearances and stoppages we might be able to accommodate both Boyd and Fletch giving Cordy and Adams (when uninjured) flexibilty to go forward. I always had Trengrove as KPD in our side. If our JLT series is indicative I'm gonna be wrong about that.

 

[Yojimbo]

B- Cordy Trengove Naughton
HB- Crozier Williams Biggs
WD- Hunter McLean
C- Macrae
WA- Johannisen Dale
HF- Bontempelli Wood
F- Young Dahlhaus

R- Campbell
RR- Jong
Ro- Liberatore

I/C- Suckling, Dunkley, Daniel, Schache,

You may notice the unconventional positions of Wing Defence
and Wing Attack, believe me champion data will be watching
and claim it as their own in time. The ground is also split into
three lanes of traffic two dual lanes on either wing and a
single lane through the centre corridor and everyone knows
you only take the single lane when it's clear of traffic. This
team gives us maximum rebound ability as well as going with
Trump theory of building a great wall across half back.
Richmond's so called back six last year consisted of the
static defenders in Rance, Astbury and Grimes and then the
rebounders in Houli, Ellis, McIntosh, Broad, and Vlastuin
which clearly adds up to eight hence the Wing Defence.
This flock of defenders was clearly the source of their
swift ball movement to an open forward line made up of
smaller quicker players with leg speed.

 

[TiAn_]

And since we'd all agree that 3 marks and 0 goals is an unacceptable output for a key forward, Trengove had 3 marks or less in 12 out of his 19 games up forward last year, and kicked zero goals in 8 out of his 19 games last year. He's not a forward.

Charlie Dixon had 3 or less marks in 12 out of his 18 games and kicked 0 goals in 6 out of his 18 games in 2016. All while spending next to no time in the ruck. I suppose he's not a forward either?

I'm not even advocating for Trengove to play forward, I want him in defence.

But pretending like he was a train wreck when forward (he wasn't) and wasn't one of your best defenders and that his absence wasn't a key reason your side flamed out in a home final last year while the stiff corpse of Drew Petrie took a dump on your KPPs is disingenuous.

 

[Bazza Bulldog]

I’d love to see Collins get a 6 week stint, like Ayce did. Bevo tells him in a year he’s out of contract - you’ve got six weeks mate. Show me what you’ve got. If you’re good you might keep your spot and get yourself an extension. If you’re not, at least you can start preparing for life after AFL football.

Good call - getting nervous about the pick swap.

Blues got Charlie Curnow, We picked up Dunks (happy) and Collins (????????)