Autopsy Round 1: Loss against the Saints

[Van_Dyke]

Have at it. Report any trolls instead of engaging with them please

 

[Square Peg]

I think the only way Fyfe succeeds as a forward is to play as a traditional CHF
Allows him to run around and hit the logos
Playing him out of the square is never going to work

Definitely needs to be at half forward. Not sure about CHF, he'll dominate in a tall flanker role IMO

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

He's definitely come on and he bagged more possessions than I thought he would. And I certainly have him ahead of Hughes. Last year he was trade bait so happy about this.

But... there's always one. But his meters gained, playing on the wing, not even top 10 for us. In fact the only people worse were the forwards (big surprise there), O'Mera and Darcy. All of who had less TOG than he did.

However my enduring thoughts during the gamer were. "You're quick why aren't you playing on". Or a much more angry. "Stop kicking/hand balling it backwards".

So whilst he didn't push my buttons as much as some. I'll take Noddy and stretches of Freddy and Clarke on the wing over both him and hughes. Some are probably thinking two out and only one in. I would be re balancing the side and Henry doesn't make it. Sub yes. Team or IC no.

Maybe making excuses here but I feel like more than most, Henry, gains metres with the possession after his. His creative disposals are the short angled kicks back into the middle or 30m out from goal where everyone else would go long down the line or the top of the square. Henry might not be the top metres gained but he was our leader for score involvements (with Darcy). That's worth more.

 

[MadMundy]

Amiss is a walk up starter, how he wasn't in the team is ridiculous.

 

[tonygeeks]

The other thing about Walker is that he is lightning fast.

One of those pricks who don’t even look like they are trying to run fast

 

[Johnny Dalmas]

I’ll never understand when you are winning the taps but losing the clearance battle why the ruckman doesn’t sink the fist into it and get it out in the open spaces at least 50% of the time

Soon as the oppo start trying to counter that you switch it back again

I think in modern footy there is too much emphasis on "process" and not enough on "outcome"

They spend all pre-season working out how they want to play, whether that be how mids structure up and move around at a ball up or whatever. And they get drilled in them to stick to the plan ... the plan will work ... just give it time

Sometimes you just wish players would react to the immediate situation a bit more and freelance.

 

[WilloTree]

Gotta say also that after people jumping on Jackson pretty quickly, he kicks 2 of his 3 very gettable goals and we are looking at a pretty good game. To be expected when we pay the price we did I suppose

Yeah, if just Jackson and Switta kick straight we win. Funny game footy.

 

[manpurple]

Maybe making excuses here but I feel like more than most, Henry, gains metres with the possession after his. His creative disposals are the short angled kicks back into the middle or 30m out from goal where everyone else would go long down the line or the top of the square. Henry might not be the top metres gained but he was our leader for score involvements (with Darcy). That's worth more.

Like I said I think he's improving (good intercept score). But we can't afford a winger who gains only 11 meters per disposal. And that number assumes that he didn't run with the ball at all. In the same game B Hill had the same number of possessions and went an extra 40m (12.9 m/d) still not wonderful. Hughes went 266 with 16 possessions (16.6 m/d) and that's after kicking backwards. On the weekend the much praised (by vic media) former docker and winger E Langdon was almost as low as Henry, 246m but that was from 14 disposals (17.5 m/d).
So, why I like NOD. Last year's average 14.8d per game resulted in 268.4 average meters gained at a massive 18.1 m/d and he's played 16 less games than Henry.

 

[tonygeeks]

I think in modern footy there is too much emphasis on "process" and not enough on "outcome"

They spend all pre-season working out how they want to play, whether that be how mids structure up and move around at a ball up or whatever. And they get drilled in them to stick to the plan ... the plan will work ... just give it time

Sometimes you just wish players would react to the immediate situation a bit more and freelance.

Your onto it

Should be a drill anyway when you have a good tap ruckman

Plan B

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Like I said I think he's improving (good intercept score). But we can't afford a winger who gains only 11 meters per disposal. And that number assumes that he didn't run with the ball at all. In the same game B Hill had the same number of possessions and went an extra 40m (12.9 m/d) still not wonderful. Hughes went 266 with 16 possessions (16.6 m/d) and that's after kicking backwards. On the weekend the much praised (by vic media) former docker and winger E Langdon was almost as low as Henry, 246m but that was from 14 disposals (17.5 m/d).
So, why I like NOD. Last year's average 14.8d per game resulted in 268.4 average meters gained at a massive 18.1 m/d and he's played 16 less games than Henry.

I want Nod in for Hughes but Henry stays, I dont we can justify booting the guy who lead scoring involvements in a team that otherwise appeared actively adverse to trying to score. When Henry got involved, we found a way to have a shot on goal. That matters a lot more than metres gained. I mean, would you rather have a guy averaging 400m gained and 3 score involvements or 200m gained and 6 score involvements? The idea of the metres gained is for us to score isnt it?

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

And you raise another good point on intercept possessions manpurple, surely high score involvements (SI) and intercept possessions (IP) are just about the two most important stats for your wing to have. Shows they work hard backwards while setting us up to score. Henry being highest SI player for us and highest non defender IP is pretty awesome.

The only player I'd personally be ok shoe-horning onto a wing in front of Henry is Chapman who I think should have been put there already. Like Henry, Chapman takes good risks to set us up to score (kicks and disposals that open up the play, not just long bombs to a contest), unlike Henry, his contested work in the air and ground is excellent.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

As I continue my stat based deep dive into the game, I think people saying we were too tall and they rebounded too easily are way off mark. The problem wasnt stopping their offense from the backline (they only kicked 10 goals) or keeping inside our 50 (16 tackles inside 50 to their 2), it was transitioning it fast enough and/or having enough forward craft to get an advantage over the absolute flood of St Kilda players sitting behind the ball the whole game.

 

[Square Peg]

As I continue my stat based deep dive into the game, I think people saying we were too tall and they rebounded too easily are way off mark. The problem wasnt stopping their offense from the backline (they only kicked 10 goals) or keeping inside our 50 (16 tackles inside 50 to their 2), it was transitioning it fast enough and/or having enough forward craft to get an advantage over the absolute flood of St Kilda players sitting behind the ball the whole game.

Maybe not too tall, but the mix and chemistry was wrong, hence the tactical sub off of an uninjured Tabs.
I'll be surprised if not angry if we ever that particular clueless combination of forwards assembled again.

 

[Yeti]

I have it on good authority that Jackson is a generational talent and that Freo fleeced Melbourne at the trade table.

#standbydan

 

[manpurple]

And you raise another good point on intercept possessions manpurple, surely high score involvements (SI) and intercept possessions (IP) are just about the two most important stats for your wing to have. Shows they work hard backwards while setting us up to score. Henry being highest SI player for us and highest non defender IP is pretty awesome.

The only player I'd personally be ok shoe-horning onto a wing in front of Henry is Chapman who I think should have been put there already. Like Henry, Chapman takes good risks to set us up to score (kicks and disposals that open up the play, not just long bombs to a contest), unlike Henry, his contested work in the air and ground is excellent.

I take your points and you've half convinced me on Chapman to the wing. I had forgotten that he was touted for that role last year.

As for key wing stats. SI can be a false dawn IMHO. Henry burns shots on goal by trying to "do the team thing". Happened at least twice on the weekend and I wished at least once he had the courage to back himself and take a shot. In general I agree with you it is a good stat for wingers. I would also add DE% or ED (effective disposals). But i really wish that the AFL used the NFL definition instead "completed" ie your team mate gets possession.

 

[manpurple]

As I continue my stat based deep dive into the game, I think people saying we were too tall and they rebounded too easily are way off mark. The problem wasnt stopping their offense from the backline (they only kicked 10 goals) or keeping inside our 50 (16 tackles inside 50 to their 2), it was transitioning it fast enough and/or having enough forward craft to get an advantage over the absolute flood of St Kilda players sitting behind the ball the whole game.

Absolutely. That and score inaccuracy. 10.7 vs 7.10

 

[s_wd6]

Just out of curiosity how many of you were actually at the game? Treacy lead up at the ball on a number of occasions & was either ignored or it was kicked over his head.

or he got both hands on it and dropped the mark

 

[gaskin]

Just out of curiosity how many of you were actually at the game? Treacy lead up at the ball on a number of occasions & was either ignored or it was kicked over his head.

I have noticed that a lot at games he has played at Optus. They seemed to ignore him a lot and go to Tabs or Lobb instead.

 

[Purple Jesus]

Treacey should spend some quality 1 on 1 time with Pav teaching him to have soft hands.

 

[Ge3ks]

Treacey should spend some quality 1 on 1 time with Pav teaching him to have soft hands.

 

[Purple Jesus]

 

[Outshined]

As I continue my stat based deep dive into the game, I think people saying we were too tall and they rebounded too easily are way off mark. The problem wasnt stopping their offense from the backline (they only kicked 10 goals) or keeping inside our 50 (16 tackles inside 50 to their 2), it was transitioning it fast enough and/or having enough forward craft to get an advantage over the absolute flood of St Kilda players sitting behind the ball the whole game.

It sounds oversimplified but honestly, we just needed to take the aggressive option one or two more times in each quarter and we probably pinch it.

One quick handball forward in a chain instead of a 20m kick sideways immediately halves the number of St Kilda players who are able to flood back and guard space.

 

[stax on the mull]

It looked like St Kildas set up two lines of defence across the field. When our defenders got it back they'd give us about 30 metres of space and have another line of players set up about 30-40 metres behind that. If we pierced the first line into the middle they'd turn around and set it up again. If we played on from that point they were still close enough to affect the chain of handballs and do enough to make us change direction.

 

[Purple Jesus]

It sounds oversimplified but honestly, we just needed to take the aggressive option one or two more times in each quarter and we probably pinch it.

One quick handball forward in a chain instead of a 20m kick sideways immediately halves the number of St Kilda players who are able to flood back and guard space.

When you have kicks like Young or line breakers like Clark and Willow, I'm not sure why we didn't tbh. Shows a lack of creativity in the box.

 

[kp junior]

As I continue my stat based deep dive into the game, I think people saying we were too tall and they rebounded too easily are way off mark. The problem wasnt stopping their offense from the backline (they only kicked 10 goals) or keeping inside our 50 (16 tackles inside 50 to their 2), it was transitioning it fast enough and/or having enough forward craft to get an advantage over the absolute flood of St Kilda players sitting behind the ball the whole game.

The Saints did it well. Was like watching Freo circa 2012


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[E Shed]

I didn't know V Capri had reformed.

Sorry I don’t get the joke (if it is one?)
Is that supposed to mean something to me? Or have you mixed me up with someone else?