Preview Round 1 v Hawks (team listed #982 p40)

[left at home]

No there back lines shocking
Obrien will take cox
Frawley will take Reid
Scicily. Crocker will annoy and suck him in
Stratton


Midfield were ahead
Pace were ahead
Rucks were ahead

Bruest, Henderson , Stratton , puopolo , Burgoyne frawley

No think there going nowhere

Well they are not that bad, don’t underestimate them. And we are missing a few especially forward.

 

[Darkyprotector]

Game 1 last year when we moved the ball through the corridor , they had no answer
My recollection was Langford played very well
They will miss him
Game 2 we got sucked in by trying to be too precise and of course the rub went against us

 

[whiskeytown]

Agree. I see it as his only hope. A lack of strength over the ball may be an issue. Also can't recall him competing in the air, so not sure how he'd cope.

Yep. Also position with the least depth if we are set to play 2 reboundersgoing forward in our back 6. Crisp, Maynard, Murray.. if one or two go down... we don't have the too many adequate replacements.

 

[iGNITER]

I suspect that Varcoe will be playing the pressure forward role on Saturday. We need his pace in there.

Agreed.

Plus Stephenson has blistering pace so would be good to see them both in the forward pockets.

 

[Old Spice]

Crocker was very handy and lively in the last few games of 2016. I think he gets separation as a lead up forward and has pretty good hands. Takes his opportunities when they come.

 

[cleomenes]

Crocker looked promising in year 1, but was injured for most of year 2. Why have so many written him off.

The couple of games in which he was unable to chase and tackle opponents last year are the reason why I have big doubts. Given the club's reluctance to put anyone on the field who is not 100%, the notion that he was carrying something seems unlikely. We will see this year whether those efforts were a reflection of what he can do or aberrations. I am happy to see my doubts unrealized.

 

[jonbe54]

The couple of games in which he was unable to chase and tackle opponents last year are the reason why I have big doubts. Given the club's reluctance to put anyone on the field who is not 100%, the notion that he was carrying something seems unlikely. We will see this year whether those efforts were a reflection of what he can do or aberrations. i am happy to see my doubts unrealized.

The jury is still out I think but given a good run this year he has to prove he has more of what we saw towards the end of '16.

 

[doppleganger]

The jury is still out I think but given a good run this year he has to prove he has more of what we saw towards the end of '16.

Yeah his game against the Hawks late in 2016 was promising.

Sort of a Macaffer circa 2010 style of a small hard leading forward, who has solid hands and can kick a goal.

Last year was a write off and considering he has only played 13 games in his career, reckon a bit premature of many to be writing him off.

 

[BringouttheGimp]

Kati naps re

 

[LynchToPies]

Yeah his game against the Hawks late in 2016 was promising.

Sort of a Macaffer circa 2010 style of a small hard leading forward, who has solid hands and can kick a goal.

Last year was a write off and considering he has only played 13 games in his career, reckon a bit premature of many to be writing him off.

Good comparison of where he needs to get to consistently i.e. Macaffer. I'll be watching Crocker like a hawk (pardon the pun) this round. I'd just like to see good & genuine pressure, smart inside 50 and hitting the scoreboard once or twice.
*Fringe players don't get too many chances. Fit 'n' firing, Elliott, Fas, Goldsack all in front of him for that third forward-target role. It's a big few weeks for his career, I reckon. G'luck but. Think he shows a bit.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Well there you go, when l was young if you were vanilla you were soft as. How times have changed.

I mean, how old are you?

I'm 37 and I've only ever known Vanilla as boring/plain

 

[Frank Gallagher]

No Blair? WTF is going on? Has Buckley lost his mind?

 

[Maggie5]

My prediction? The Pies by 15 points.

 

[doppleganger]

Good comparison of where he needs to get to consistently i.e. Macaffer. I'll be watching Crocker like a hawk (pardon the pun) this round. I'd just like to see good & genuine pressure, smart inside 50 and hitting the scoreboard once or twice.
*Fringe players don't get too many chances. Fit 'n' firing, Elliott, Fas, Goldsack all in front of him for that third forward-target role. It's a big few weeks for his career, I reckon. G'luck but. Think he shows a bit.

Agree.

With a handful of senior players who would be considered 1st choice options for roles up forward not avalaible, it gives guys like Crocker, Aish, Stephenson and Josh Thomas a chance to stake a claim to a best 22 spot.

If they play well all of a sudden it means guys like Fasolo, Greenwood actually need to play good VFL football to earn a spot in the team, where previously they may have been walk up starts when fit.

 

[10571z]

Crocker super lucky. Let's hope he seizes the opportunity

 

[left at home]

I mean, how old are you?

I'm 37 and I've only ever known Vanilla as boring/plain

Plus 20 yrs more

 

[No SPIN]

We were 18th for tackles and 17th for pressure in the forward 50 last season. Don't see how the selected side can improve on that aspect.

Cox can't pressure opponents. Reid is slower than treacle these days. First gamer Stephenson wasn't recruited for tackling, but at least has the pace to chase. And then there is Hoskin-Elliott, who is no doubt an excellent footballer, but defensively is no tougher than a wet tissue.

So it looks like its up to Thomas and Crocker to apply the forward pressure.

We're screwed.

We were TOP 5 for I50's and 15th for I50 conversions, so despite your stats above we just need to improve I50 conversion, to climb the ladder.
Tackles and FWD 50 pressure are far, far less important to our game plan than I50 conversion.

PS; I am assuming here a tackle from an errant I50 entry that results in a score does not count as a conversion, but rather only a mark then score, from an entry counts in this way.

I'm sure someone will clarify.

 

[doppleganger]

For a team who struggled to kick winning scores (despite having very high i50 numbers) defensive pressure is a secondary problem imo, whether Faz is right to go im neither here nor there but I would love to see improvement in:

a)converting inside 50s to goals or shots on goal.
b)delivery into said 50 to advantage of teammates rather then trash kicks.

If you kick goals you don't need to base your entire game around forward pressure.
If you happen to miss and kick points you get time to "set up" and have team defensive effort aka forward pressure, from the kick out.

We have gone from having crumbers default to winning the ball when it spills to worrying about laying tackles imo the balance is far too much to defensive mindsets. That is not to say you dont need forward pressure but imo we need more of the attacking element to go with it.

Defending the transition would be much easier if our last line in our Zone wasn't pushed up to our CHF line allowing free out the back plays when you break over it.

Part of the reason why we were so ineffective last year is that our forwards weren't working together as a team.

So many times we would see Elliott, Fasolo and Moore flying for the same ball or leading to the same area.

Moore is still learning the art of forward play, so can be excused somewhat, but Billy and Fas still very much play a me first game instead of a team game. There is minimal blocking, dummy leading, creating space for each other. It would be a combination of poor coaching, and a lack of application by forwards to actually do that.

That is what has made Richmond's forward line so effective recently, they all put the team first...it doesn't matter if Jack kicks the goal, or Townsend, or Caddy, or Butler etc. They are happy to run up the wing, create space and not be the focus all the time.

A guy like Townsend isn't anything special talent wise, yet he plays his role selflessly and as a result finds himself kicking his 2 or 3 a game from 5 disposals.

 

[Apex36]

He was called vanilla, to me thats soft, to others l suppose it has different meanings.

I’ve always thought being called vanilla equated to being a player who has no real standout attributes or weapons.

 

[Scodog10]

Hypothetical - If Wells played for Hawthorn, do you think he would be playing tomorrow and why?

Let me be frank and say that Hawthorn are a better run club than us so would never acquire Wells in the first place. They aren’t the benchmark, but they’re miles ahead of us.

I am supremely confident that if Wells were a Hawthorn listed player he would be playing round 1. What would have happened if he turned up in the shape he did for 2017 pre-season is Clarko would have torn him to shreds, as a result he’d have been in better nick entering the 2018 pre-season and not as big as a house. He then isn’t overloaded catching back up and is available for selection for round 1.

Cause and effect. Until our FD improves this, and the delayed surgeries, will continue. They cost us games, a spot in the finals and potentially people their careers, but posters such as yourself continue to have your heads in the sand. I don’t want to deny anyone the right to do that, but it scares me that our club’s executive are likewise inclined.

 

[jonbe54]

We were TOP 5 for I50's and 15th for I50 conversions, so despite your stats above we just need to improve I50 conversion, to climb the ladder.
Tackles and FWD 50 pressure are far, far less important to our game plan than I50 conversion.

Agreed the most harrowing pressure for opponents by far is SCOREBOARD pressure.

 

[doppleganger]

I'm sorry for wanting Collingwood to field its best possible team.

Wonder if Buckley might be setting our Smith to perform a run with role on the Hawks Smith.

One thing Smith does have is a big tank, this may have given him the edge over Brown.

 

[left at home]

I’ve always thought being called vanilla equated to being a player who has no real standout attributes or weapons.

At a different age and place it was soft, but l am happy with the new meaning of it. Just trying to clarify it.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Plus 20 yrs more

Ok so basically my dad's age. I'll have to ask my dad if he knows what I mean by vanilla. Pretty sure he does.

You're just out of touch old man.

At a different age and place it was soft, but l am happy with the new meaning of it. Just trying to clarify it.

If you think about it. Tha flavour vanialla is literally the most plain, common and boring flavour of anything (although it also happens to be the best lol).

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Vanilla doesnt mean soft.

Never has.

It means plain, without standout features.