Preview Round 1 v Hawks (team listed #982 p40)

[Run n Spread]

Hawks (Clarko) have managed to pull together a decent side.

But irrelevant. To spite the injury list ours is better. Simply can't drop games like this anymore in 2018.

Win and we build. Lose we have another crunch game in rd 2. And we know how that has ended up last 2 years.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Blair’s not playing. Why even mention him?

Just speaking generally. Smith is isn’t he?

 

[swoop42]

I believe we will play finals this year, and win one or more. I am confident about that.

If it doesn’t happen, and we miss again, 5 years is enough. Change must happen.

My money is on finals footy and a contract extension.

Making finals gets him another year but outside of playing off in a GF I can't see any justification for a contract extension based on 1 finals appearance in 5 seasons.

That is a very low pass mark I would have imagined.

Making finals this season only to immediately fall out of contention the following year would be a poor result, a shocking look and grounds for dismissal not a contract extension I would have thought.

Last year was meant to be his bonus season for being a good bloke and champion player of the club, a final opportunity and yet he's been given another thanks in part to the Richmond example which we have looked to mimic and the reluctance of McGuire to seemingly give a Dew or Caracella an opportunity.

It's time that the club stopped moving the goal posts in order to suit the narrative it wishes to sell about Buckley, to keep the dream alive.

It's time for those posts to be cemented in place, for the club to start focusing purely on kicking goals on and off the field, to see positive results flow and if Buckley can't deliver it then no one individual is bigger than the club and we start again with another.

 

[Run n Spread]

Making finals gets him another year but outside of playing off in a GF I can't see any justification for a contract extension based on 1 finals appearance in 5 seasons.

That is a very low pass mark I would have imagined.

Making finals this season only to immediately fall out of contention the following year would be a poor result, a shocking look and grounds for dismissal not a contract extension I would have thought.

Last year was meant to be his bonus season for being a good bloke and champion player of the club, a final opportunity and yet he's been given another thanks in part to the Richmond example which we have looked to mimic and the reluctance of McGuire to seemingly give a Dew or Caracella an opportunity.

It's time that the club stopped moving the goal posts in order to suit the narrative it wishes to sell about Buckley, to keep the dream alive.

It's time for those posts to be cemented in place, for the club to start focusing purely on kicking goals on and off the field, to see positive results flow and if Buckley can't deliver it then no one individual is bigger than the club and we start again with another.

It's a weird one.

Personally I would have simply said thanks but contract not renewed.

But in the Collingwood tradition they looked to bribe someone. A Paul "I'm off to Hawii Roos" or a Bomber "I don't like footy anymore" <plus an incoming drug raid> Thompson" so imo Bucks is the best option.

He started the rebuild so deserves to see it through. But the time for results was last year and he got extended so tick tock.........

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Just speaking generally. Smith is isn’t he?

Yes. But hes not Blair and Smith. Hes just Smith.

 

[Black_White]

I agree totally. This season it’s finals or else...

Unfortunately the “or else” will probably mean another two year extension.....

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

http://www.bom.gov.au/places/vic/melbourne/forecast/detailed/

Daddy Cool wrote a song about their love for the weather bureau



(Sorry for the dad joke...nah not really)

 

[TradeDraft]

Going by Shocking Forecast there is a Good Chance that I be Staying Home Tommorow Night

 

[TradeDraft]

Beautiful day in Melbourne, can't really see the rain they are predicting at this stage.

Anything is Possible in 24 Hours

 

[Hardas]

Why not try make him into a forward....if his knees hold up? Maybe not the answer however, one thing I’d like to see this year is for us to mix things up a bit with certain players. Higher draft picks who are not automatic first 22 after being in the list for a couple of years obviously have some talent and so should be tried in different roles. You never know what may happen.

I read an article on Shaz recently (Inside Football?) where he alluded to playing other roles in the future besides this current taller back role.

 

[Hardas]

Plus 20 yrs more

Not that it really matters either way I guess, but vanilla has never meant soft, and I've got you covered for age.

 

[Hardas]

Up until he was injured Crocker played some great football up forward in the VFL last season and was a consistent avenue to goal.

At that level at least he's not a defensive forward at all.

His 3 performances at AFL level in 2017 were disappointing though and didn't build upon the promise shown the previous season.

He looked slow, lacked strength in the tackle and was to easy to play against in his games last year I thought.

Still it was only his second season so it's unfair to write him off on the back of it.

His preseason form hasn't demanded selection but you can say the same about Daicos also and if choosing between the two for round 1 I would have gone with Crocker.

From what I've seen of him, he needed to work hard on his agility and evasiveness.
Along with those elements, he's not especially quick, so not easy to become much of a defensive forward any time soon.

 

[left at home]

Not that it really matters either way I guess, but vanilla has never meant soft, and I've got you covered for age.

Not where l live, different states have different meanings to ice cream color, it was soft as sh.it, not lacking weapons.
Age is just a number, so l been told.
But l really don’t care, to be honest about the whole thing

 

[cityslick1]

I believe we will play finals this year, and win one or more. I am confident about that.

If it doesn’t happen, and we miss again, 5 years is enough. Change must happen.

My money is on finals footy and a contract extension.

Honestly think we are no chance to play finals this year. I doubt we would beat any of the 4 teams who have already played, including Carlton.

Teams we are behind...

GWS
Adelaide
Essendon
Melbourne
Sydney
Port
Essendon
Carlton
Geelong
Fremantle
Suns?
Hawthorn?
Bulldogs?

 

[jmac70]

Honestly think we are no chance to play finals this year. I doubt we would beat any of the 4 teams who have already played, including Carlton.

Teams we are behind...

GWS
Adelaide
Essendon
Melbourne
Sydney
Port
Essendon
Carlton
Geelong
Fremantle
Suns?
Hawthorn?
Bulldogs?

Of course you are entitled to your opinion, but I don’t know how you can possibly conclude that two games into round 1.

 

[Scodog10]

Honestly think we are no chance to play finals this year. I doubt we would beat any of the 4 teams who have already played, including Carlton.

Teams we are behind...

GWS
Adelaide
Essendon
Melbourne
Sydney
Port
Essendon
Carlton
Geelong
Fremantle
Suns?
Hawthorn?
Bulldogs?

It’s way to early to be absolute. I think it’s quite likely we’ll miss, but we won’t have any real indication until at least a month into the season (unless we start 0-3). As a team we have to improve our transition from the back half, tackling efficiency and defensive pressure in the forward half. A month into the season by eye you’ll be able to see if we’ve improved in those areas and we’ll have data in support.

On what we’ve seen so far Carlton, Adelaide and Essendon all looked vulnerable defensively. Richmond to an extent as well, but their result was a bit of an anomaly.

I’m tipping that’s the only time this year Richmond will be jumped like that and for as good as Carlton looked they only kicked 10 goals in the last 105-110 minutes of match time. They looked sharp when the ball hit the ground and they’re all singing from the same hymn book. One thing I think they do extremely well is understanding in game that unless they know they can execute a kick to a free teammate they play for territory. They don’t blaze away with kicks that go 50m long and in the air they mongrel them then back themselves in to win the next ground level contest, the one after that and the one that leads to a SOG. They don’t try to play perfect footy, as we do at times, they know that they just need to win enough of the ground level contests to generate 30 SOG. We’re a good contested ball team that has questionable foot skills so it’s what we should be doing rather than our go slow to protect against those turnovers...

Essendon will run up some cricket scores this year with a full compliment through the midfield and Fantasia back. Hurley is vulnerable because he presses up way too far, IMO, Hartley and Brown are battlers and McKenna and Saad weren’t tested with fierce pressure last night. Despite all that and Adelaide’s fwd third being hodge podge they still had them for most of the night.

Adelaide’s midfield with Gibbs, Sloane, Crouch and Crouch will rival ours when up and running, but they sorely missed T Lynch last night. By the by he’s the out of contract Tom Lynch we should be all in on. I’m glad we have them in the first month!

Carlton are Patrick Cripps getting shutout away from being non-competitive through the midfield. If the brains trust send Maynard to him that move alone is enough to ensure the midfield battle goes our way. Moore v Curnow is a pretty tantalising matchup, but overall they don’t yet look “better” than us.

Whilst I have no confidence that they’ll prove me wrong there’s no way I can say we’re no chance to play finals at this point.

 

[TKiL]

Plain and vanilla has connotations of - less desirable.
Something I wouldn't ascribe to either of our last two flag captian's - yet they were vanilla footballers.
A much overused term, often used to deride 'soldiers' which to any army are essential.

Original, pure vanilla is highly sought after and quite expensive - not to be confused with the many cheap imitations - 2nd in price to saffron in the "spice" market

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Wondering if C Brown not a chance now with wet weather to replace Stephenson Smith or Aish. Or possibly Cox but I hope they dont go down that path.

 

[cleomenes]

Plus 20 yrs more

Vanilla has been a synonym for plain since flavoured ice cream came out. This could be one of those words where Shpeshal Ed picked up an incorrect meaning due to the context when he first heard it.

 

[Mkcaptain]

Carlton are Patrick Cripps getting shutout away from being non-competitive through the midfield. If the brains trust send Maynard to him that move alone is enough to ensure the midfield battle goes our way. Moore v Curnow is a pretty tantalising matchup, but overall they don’t yet look “better” than us.

Not particularly relevant to this thread but I've followed Carlton's rebuild reasonably closely and unfortunately it seems they're primed to explode next year. (I agree with you that it won't be this year). So this is a discussion I'm interested in.

Just in terms of our Round 3 match, the other thing in our favour against their midfield is that we won't be using Shaun Grigg against Kreuzer for large portions of the game. Whenever that match-up occurred it was like watching the training drill the rucks do before the game where they jump into a bag and then tap it straight down their midfielders throat. That is how Carlton generated lots of their drive from the centre.

Btw Kreuzer proved me wrong. I was disgusted when I found we were chasing him at the end of 2015 but he is performing beautifully. I still don't see how he'd fit into our side with Grundy. But I think we'd be a stronger team if we had him. It would make Round 3 a much more comfortable prospect if Kreuzer misses.

 

[TradeDraft]

Wondering if C Brown not a chance now with wet weather to replace Stephenson Smith or Aish. Or possibly Cox but I hope they dont go down that path.

IF He comes in it be for Cox not for another Small

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

IF He comes in it be for Cox not for another Small

I reckon play Cox in ruck and use Grundy as a big mid across half back if conditions are horrible.

Maybe substitute an outside mid (Aish, smith) or a skinny first gamer (Stephenson) with an inside mid (brown) would be my thought.

My best guess is no change though.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Not particularly relevant to this thread but I've followed Carlton's rebuild reasonably closely and unfortunately it seems they're primed to explode next year. (I agree with you that it won't be this year). So this is a discussion I'm interested in.

Just in terms of our Round 3 match, the other thing in our favour against their midfield is that we won't be using Shaun Grigg against Kreuzer for large portions of the game. Whenever that match-up occurred it was like watching the training drill the rucks do before the game where they jump into a bag and then tap it straight down their midfielders throat. That is how Carlton generated lots of their drive from the centre.

Btw Kreuzer proved me wrong. I was disgusted when I found we were chasing him at the end of 2015 but he is performing beautifully. I still don't see how he'd fit into our side with Grundy. But I think we'd be a stronger team if we had him. It would make Round 3 a much more comfortable prospect if Kreuzer misses.

i don’t think the grigg experiment is one that will catch on. Alright to use a non ruck occasionally but if you deliberately try and lose the hit outs on a regular basis you will get exposed.

 

[TradeDraft]

I reckon play Cox in ruck and use Grundy as a big mid across half back if conditions are horrible.

Maybe substitute an outside mid (Aish, smith) or a skinny first gamer (Stephenson) with an inside mid (brown) would be my thought.

My best guess is no change though.

IF I dropped any of those 3 it be Smith

 

[Scodog10]

Not particularly relevant to this thread but I've followed Carlton's rebuild reasonably closely and unfortunately it seems they're primed to explode next year. (I agree with you that it won't be this year). So this is a discussion I'm interested in.

Just in terms of our Round 3 match, the other thing in our favour against their midfield is that we won't be using Shaun Grigg against Kreuzer for large portions of the game. Whenever that match-up occurred it was like watching the training drill the rucks do before the game where they jump into a bag and then tap it straight down their midfielders throat. That is how Carlton generated lots of their drive from the centre.

Btw Kreuzer proved me wrong. I was disgusted when I found we were chasing him at the end of 2015 but he is performing beautifully. I still don't see how he'd fit into our side with Grundy. But I think we'd be a stronger team if we had him. It would make Round 3 a much more comfortable prospect if Kreuzer misses.

What impresses me most about them is that they’ve built with purpose and finally understood exactly where they were. I believe they’re still a little further back and would say 2020 will be more their go when the likes of SPS, Weitering, Curnow, Dow, Marchbank, Cripps and McKay all have 50+ games under their belt. Compare that to us and the contrast is stark we have just haphazardly compiled a decent list of individuals without a discernible end goal in mind. The way they’ve built doesn’t guarantee success and I could go into significant detail around how purposeful they’ve been, but this isn’t the thread for that!

Only my two cents, but I’m wrapt for both Collingwood and Kruezer out of that one. Our ruck and team structure would have been compromised by bringing him in because both he and Grundy are workhorses that need 80% ruck time. In the end it would have prevented both Kruezer and Grundy from reaching their full potential in much the same way North are challenged by Pruess and Goldstein. It also would have restricted Cox’s development because playing 3 guys of ruckman size isn’t effective in the modern game.