Autopsy Round 10, 2017: Sydney vs Hawthorn

[BruceFromBalnarring]

Must say I admire your optimism (albeit a little sight challenged). Either that or you are a prince of satire or truly the brain damaged ex PM.

You're not my dad....he quite liked Abbott too.

I base my opinions on what I see, what I experienced as a player (for example understanding that some days you personally and collectively don't "have it" for part or the entirety of a match) and what I hear from within the club. I am optimistic. If I couldn't be optimistic about footy I might as well give it away because god knows real life can be a real ******* chore. Footy's an escape.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Fair points about some days not being on - experienced similar days in cricket.

As an ancient supporter I have experienced more lows than highs - I really hope the past two decades of consistent success are not a statistical outlier - but even during the lowest points there was often gold to be found - eg a great first season from a recruit, some great unexpected performances against better teams. Every season offers hope.

 

[Kapanis]

You're not my dad....he quite liked Abbott too.

I base my opinions on what I see, what I experienced as a player (for example understanding that some days you personally and collectively don't "have it" for part or the entirety of a match) and what I hear from within the club. I am optimistic. If I couldn't be optimistic about footy I might as well give it away because god knows real life can be a real ******* chore. Footy's an escape.

Buy a foiling moth Bruce, that's an escape from life I can tell you.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

Buy a foiling moth Bruce, that's an escape from life I can tell you.

How did you know I was into sailing? Foiling moth though, I'm way too old for that.

Look......there's nothing logical about any of this.

Here we are, a bunch of flogs who don't know each other from a bar of soap, sitting at our computers discussing in depth something as illogical as a bunch of men chasing a ridiculous shaped ball around. And for all we know the ones we support could be the biggest flogs of all, but we support them because the jumper they wear is red and white. There's nothing logical about any of that. Take a step back and it's bloody ridiculous.

And yet the line of "illogical" is drawn at the very point where I say we can still play finals if we win all but 3 or 4 of our remaining games because with a good portion of our best side out we lost the first 6 games.

Well I say * yas all. Winter only begins tomorrow and I'm not dropping the dream one day before I mathematically have to.

And those who don't like it can go support ******* Carlton.

How the hell can we ask the players we support to go on playing with passion and belief if we're so quick to drop that passion and belief ourselves?

THAT'S ILLOGICAL!

 

[Kapanis]

How did you know I was into sailing? Foiling moth though, I'm way too old for that.

Look......there's nothing logical about any of this.

Here we are, a bunch of flogs who don't know each other from a bar of soap, sitting at our computers discussing in depth something as illogical as a bunch of men chasing a ridiculous shaped ball around. And for all we know the ones we support could be the biggest flogs of all, but we support them because the jumper they wear is red and white. There's nothing logical about any of that. Take a step back and it's bloody ridiculous.

And yet the line of "illogical" is drawn at the very point where I say we can still play finals if we win all but 3 or 4 of our remaining games because with a good portion of our best side out we lost the first 6 games.

Well I say **** yas all. Winter only begins tomorrow and I'm not dropping the dream one day before I mathematically have to.

And those who don't like it can go support ******* Carlton.

How the hell can we ask the players we support to go on playing with passion and belief if we're so quick to drop that passion and belief ourselves?

THAT'S ILLOGICAL!

Time to hit the right hand side up the last windward beat Bruce, nothing to lose, no use picking the shifts up the middle to finish mid fleet.

 

[S120]

Are you my father? He's a miserable old campaigner too.

A-graders (now and future) - Franklin, Heeney, Mills, Jones, Aliir, Papley, Naismith, Lloyd, Hayward, Florent, Kennedy, Parker, Hannebery, Rampe, Grundy
B-Graders - Towers, Smith (due to age), Reid, Rohan, Hewett, Melican, Cunningham, Marsh, Sinclair, Tippett, Fox, Robinson, K Jack, Newman
Untried so unknown at the level - Maibaum, Dawson*, O'Riordan, Fisher, Cameron, AJ
List cloggers (no trade value and won't play for us) - B Jack, Laidler, Foote, Leonardis, Rose, Talia
Retirees - McVeigh

*I think Dawson will be an A-grader

Papley and Naismith being future A graders are very generous imo. Particularly Naismith. Lloyd too, I'm an enormous fan of his but I'd have him at B+ tops. Not quite as impactful as you need to be to be an A.

And I know you're big on Dawson but I have a hard time believing he's gonna be an A. A good senior player, I can buy, and I'd like to see him play sooner rather than later too. But top tier player? I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

Time to hit the right hand side up the last windward beat Bruce, nothing to lose, no use picking the shifts up the middle to finish mid fleet.

But we're not on the last beat yet now, are we? We've just completed the first lap. What we need to do is pick our windshifts up the second beat, make our sets and gybes flawless (that last kite drop was just horrible) and try to finish in the top half of the fleet.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

Papley and Naismith being future A graders are very generous imo. Particularly Naismith. Lloyd too, I'm an enormous fan of his but I'd have him at B+ tops. Not quite as impactful as you need to be to be an A.

And I know you're big on Dawson but I have a hard time believing he's gonna be an A. A good senior player, I can buy, and I'd like to see him play sooner rather than later too. But top tier player? I'll believe it when I see it.

Naismith is more a club thing backed up by what I saw (albeit only at times) last year.

There's something about Papley. He's not the most skilfull but he just looks to have that mentality of a player who at the end of his career we will say "he was very, very good".

Dawson is my own assessment. I watched a game of his (I think v NT) and just thought "Wow". And it reminded me of Kennedy in his first year with us. That final he played maybe against Carlton or someone. I had the same feeling. He rises in packs with bodies hanging off him.

I think Lloyd's numbers this year speak for themselves.

 

[Kapanis]

But we're not on the last beat yet now, are we? We've just completed the first lap. What we need to do is pick our windshifts up the second beat, make our sets and gybes flawless (that last kite drop was just horrible) and try to finish in the top half of the fleet.

I hear ya, I'm seeing a persistent shift to the right, going the left downhill in pressure, then hitting the right uphill. Hopefully the guys up front are immersed in their own tactical battle and we can squeeze into the top eight, doesn't look likely so let's give it a go instead of following the soldiers.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

I hear ya, I'm seeing a persistent shift to the right, going the left downhill in pressure, then hitting the right uphill. Hopefully the guys up front are immersed in their own tactical battle and we can squeeze into the top eight, doesn't look likely so let's give it a go instead of following the soldiers.

But we're not trying to beat the guys up front. They've cleared out.

It's the bunch just in front we need to get ahead of. We know we have boatspeed. And we know, notwithstanding that last kite drop, that our boat handling and change of direction is better than theirs. We simply need to pick up a couple of places each leg and we're in.

No championship was ever won banging corners.

So what do you sail and how did you know?

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

I hear ya, I'm seeing a persistent shift to the right, going the left downhill in pressure, then hitting the right uphill. Hopefully the guys up front are immersed in their own tactical battle and we can squeeze into the top eight, doesn't look likely so let's give it a go instead of following the soldiers.

PS. Lake Cootharaba has always had that bend in the wind. But not all races are sailed at Lake Cootharaba.

 

[Kapanis]

But we're not trying to beat the guys up front. They've cleared out.

It's the bunch just in front we need to get ahead of. We know we have boatspeed. And we know, notwithstanding that last kite drop, that our boat handling and change of direction is better than theirs. We simply need to pick up a couple of places each leg and we're in.

No championship was ever won banging corners.

So what do you sail and how did you know?

Yeh yeh, i just reckon it's time to change tactics, the cattle back now helps no doubt. Tactically I'm getting sick of the zone and not changing things up quick enough when, as we've discussed plan a doesn't work.

I've been lucky enough to have sailed lots, don't blow my own trumpet but mostly pretty well. Hit the corners a few times when needed, some good, some bad. If you ever sail in Freo, believe me you always hit the left corner, that wins championships. The last regatta I won was down your way at the festival of the sails Geelong. We discussed your RL24 some years ago, that's how I knew.

 

[Kapanis]

PS. Lake Cootharaba has always had that bend in the wind. But not all races are sailed at Lake Cootharaba.

Great place to sail

 

[S120]

Naismith is more a club thing backed up by what I saw (albeit only at times) last year.

There's something about Papley. He's not the most skilfull but he just looks to have that mentality of a player who at the end of his career we will say "he was very, very good".

Dawson is my own assessment. I watched a game of his (I think v NT) and just thought "Wow". And it reminded me of Kennedy in his first year with us. That final he played maybe against Carlton or someone. I had the same feeling. He rises in packs with bodies hanging off him.

I think Lloyd's numbers this year speak for themselves.

I think Papley will be a tremendous Swans player for a long time but, to compare players who are similar dimensions in similar playing positions, I think his ceiling is Paul Puopolo rather than Robbie Gray. Excellent small forward but not quite able to transition consistently into being a top grade midfielder.

Naismith needs to get a lot stronger for me. His leap and athleticism are great attributes but when he's forward or wrestling with other ruckmen he looks a little under strength still imo.

Your thing with Dawson so that's fine but I would caution any even slight hope for even a variant JPK clone. Setting yourself up for disappointment.

I can't argue with Lloyd much because I love him, his work ethic and development I admire greatly and I'm very happy he's a Swan. I guess it may be a difference in what we each consider to be A grade. In terms of half backs, I'd consider Johannisen and Laird A grade. Lloyd isn't quite their level imo but still very good.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

sensible post

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

Yeh yeh, i just reckon it's time to change tactics, the cattle back now helps no doubt. Tactically I'm getting sick of the zone and not changing things up quick enough when, as we've discussed plan a doesn't work.

I've been lucky enough to have sailed lots, don't blow my own trumpet but mostly pretty well. Hit the corners a few times when needed, some good, some bad. If you ever sail in Freo, believe me you always hit the left corner, that wins championships. The last regatta I won was down your way at the festival of the sails Geelong. We discussed your RL24 some years ago, that's how I knew.

Wow! I'm a 3 time winner at Geelong! But only the trailable division. Did Sydney 38s for a few years but that was pretty much the finish. I'm building an Impulse that I'll do the Nationals in on Cootharaba in 2018. Still have the RL, but it's likely to be mostly a weekender from now on.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

I think Papley will be a tremendous Swans player for a long time but, to compare players who are similar dimensions in similar playing positions, I think his ceiling is Paul Puopolo rather than Robbie Gray. Excellent small forward but not quite able to transition consistently into being a top grade midfielder.

Naismith needs to get a lot stronger for me. His leap and athleticism are great attributes but when he's forward or wrestling with other ruckmen he looks a little under strength still imo.

Your thing with Dawson so that's fine but I would caution any even slight hope for even a variant JPK clone. Setting yourself up for disappointment.

I can't argue with Lloyd much because I love him, his work ethic and development I admire greatly and I'm very happy he's a Swan. I guess it may be a difference in what we each consider to be A grade. In terms of half backs, I'd consider Johannisen and Laird A grade. Lloyd isn't quite their level imo but still very good.

I guess it's perspective. Ask any Hawk and they'll tell you "Poppy" (*vomit) is A-grade. But I think Papley will be better than Puopolo. To me they are A-grade if they play their role at an elite level. Not all roles are glorious. Lloyd's isn't. But 10 weeks in he's doing his job over and over. You don't have to think about him until he gets knocked out then you wonder "what the * do we do now". Like Rampe jumping over a chain or Heeney getting Glandular.

 

[aussietomt]

I think Papley will be a tremendous Swans player for a long time but, to compare players who are similar dimensions in similar playing positions, I think his ceiling is Paul Puopolo rather than Robbie Gray. Excellent small forward but not quite able to transition consistently into being a top grade midfielder.

Naismith needs to get a lot stronger for me. His leap and athleticism are great attributes but when he's forward or wrestling with other ruckmen he looks a little under strength still imo.

Your thing with Dawson so that's fine but I would caution any even slight hope for even a variant JPK clone. Setting yourself up for disappointment.

I can't argue with Lloyd much because I love him, his work ethic and development I admire greatly and I'm very happy he's a Swan. I guess it may be a difference in what we each consider to be A grade. In terms of half backs, I'd consider Johannisen and Laird A grade. Lloyd isn't quite their level imo but still very good.

How many times last Friday did we see the short kick used to advantage. Compare that to the previous weeks against Nth Melb and St Kilda when we had three (Cunningham, Lloyd and Jones ) showing up and opening up the middle or finding someone rather than Buddy. Rampe normally a good kick, was off on Friday and no one else stood up to create anything other than a willingness to get down and dirty. No one can ever say the Swans do not give everything, that is what disappoints.
That doesn't work against Hawthorn as they just wait for the turnover, a short lead up, then another if necessary and they are on their way with multiple kicks to unmarked players leading from the centre.
If the Swans haven't woken up now to the uncontested marks situation it does not matter who is on the ground if you just chase tails or bust a gut to mark up on someone who has marked five metres in front of you. Go back and look at some vision and see how often this fiasco plays out. Watch the first lead from the centre and then you will quickly see the procession from the middle to create loose men.
I am Papley's No.1 admirer as he gets the job done in both attack and defence.
Tippett has been the great disappointment, injuries and unwillingness to push himself. How we remember Mumford's second efforts after the ball up when he and Jude Bolton ran their own show destroying anyone trying to get the ball on the ground. Watch him now with his eagles wings spread after the ball up or bounce.
Tippett has no physical intimidation in him whatsoever and doesn't appear willing to up his presence. Where are the goals, missed a sitter again against Hawthorn. Surely Cameron must be tried as he has evident forward line marking ability.
McVeigh must come in if only to school Jones for the future. He is sure, confident and a beautiful kick which is our biggest shortfall in attack.
Reid is turning out like Jesse White, so much ability, so unwilling to push harder to show what he truly could be.
Adam Jack has been poorly judged as he gives his all and has played with injury. I expect him to step up as this injury is overcome. His defensive pressure has been missed.
One I notice has not been mentioned and that is Dan Robinson who I believe is the equal of Lloyd for output that is never really noticed. The Swans are missing him even though he has had serious injury troubles for a while. He will bloom when he returns.
I haven't seen Dawson other than a couple of preseason games last year. If we use him Reid has to go back to CHB where he will have to work hard and compete with Aller. Could be the making of him as it was for Teddy Richards.
Rohan has to be used as a rich hitter in the middle as a shock tactic. His breakaway speed is a weapon that is not being used.
A question to the coaching staff, how could you send the Swans out to battle against the Hawk side, so unprepared . Tell me how could Clarkson be so confident that he could again send his side out with the same old "sucker punches" and be confident it would again work, against a completely unprepared opposition.
Finally, don't get me started on the loose man in defence. Someone must have read that Napoleon used this
tactic and it worked. May have for those who used it, but not for those that allowed it!

 

[The King!]

How did you know I was into sailing? Foiling moth though, I'm way too old for that.

Look......there's nothing logical about any of this.

Here we are, a bunch of flogs who don't know each other from a bar of soap, sitting at our computers discussing in depth something as illogical as a bunch of men chasing a ridiculous shaped ball around. And for all we know the ones we support could be the biggest flogs of all, but we support them because the jumper they wear is red and white. There's nothing logical about any of that. Take a step back and it's bloody ridiculous.

And yet the line of "illogical" is drawn at the very point where I say we can still play finals if we win all but 3 or 4 of our remaining games because with a good portion of our best side out we lost the first 6 games.

Well I say **** yas all. Winter only begins tomorrow and I'm not dropping the dream one day before I mathematically have to.

And those who don't like it can go support ******* Carlton.

How the hell can we ask the players we support to go on playing with passion and belief if we're so quick to drop that passion and belief ourselves?

THAT'S ILLOGICAL!

Hope the players come out with your passion

 

[Kapanis]

Wow! I'm a 3 time winner at Geelong! But only the trailable division. Did Sydney 38s for a few years but that was pretty much the finish. I'm building an Impulse that I'll do the Nationals in on Cootharaba in 2018. Still have the RL, but it's likely to be mostly a weekender from now on.

If you need any info re the lake pm me

 

[Gongswan]

27 pages on htis game, are you all kidding? The game was over in hte first minute when Lloyd went down, and buried when Reid, who would have been behind the ball at the death, left us at half time

 

[TripleB]

Surprised there has been little talk of Sinclair's vastly improved game?

Comfortably in our top 5 on the night imo...

 

[MC Bad Genius]

27 pages on htis game, are you all kidding? The game was over in hte first minute when Lloyd went down, and buried when Reid, who would have been behind the ball at the death, left us at half time

To be fair, the last few pages have for some unknown reason been all about sailing ...

 

[TripleB]

To be fair, the last few pages have for some unknown reason been all about sailing ...

Probably time for this thread to drop anchor...

 

[Kapanis]

To be fair, the last few pages have for some unknown reason been all about sailing ...

Probably time for this thread to drop anchor...

Horses plan b