Preview Round 10 2019: Hawthorn vs Port Adelaide, 25 May 2019, 1.45pm @ York Park

[Hodginator]

A question to the faithful when was the last time we kicked over 100 points in a game ?

Round 20, 2018.
Haw 16.11.107 v Ess 16.7.103

93 v the Blues in Tassie in round 6 this year the closest since.

 

[Noneedforaname]

Agreed, although 13 possessions isn't enough for a mid. I'm not one to dwell on stats too much, but if Glass is going to be playing as a midfielder he needs to gets his hands on the leather a bit more often.



Glass had 1 tackle last week. Brishawk may be able to advise what his pressure act numbers were like (not sure where to get these?), they may tell a different story to his tackle count.

Again, I'd rather make a judgement on watching him live, so I will try really hard to watch him more tomorrow at the ground. I do find that I get distracted by the action though, so if he isn't around the contest I can't guarantee I will keep my attention on him fulltime.

completely get what you're saying, bu stats aside, Watch some of the lighter kids. Oppos will walk through them because they have no physical presence. Pose no threat. It's a contact sport, it has and always will happen. To every team playing kids. Cyril like freaks aside.

Glass will be less likely to be waltzed through. If you come close enough, he can bump or tackle. Let alone provide a shepherd, or block, or hit a pack etc. There's umpteen ways to effect a contest with the body that aint going to be recorded as a stat. Merely having a presence - a bigger body over a boys, will perhaps change a 1on1 from 40/60% to maybe a 60/40% contest, footballing nous, speed etc all being equal. As this probably isn't yet in Glass' favour, he has to utilise his beef to his, and the team's advantage.
I don't expect him to dominate, he's playing a new role. Hes just being further educated in the midfield role as part of his development. Can only learn so much in the twos. At the very least he's going to provide a chop out to some of the more tired legs

 

[Freshmeat]

Birch did all of the session yesterday apparently and isn't far off playing at BH now. Interesting.

Well hopefully he can get himself into the seniors for a farewell game. For all he’s done for this club, he deserves that.

 

[tige19]

If you want the young blokes you are bringing through to learn the structures and how we go about it you need some blokes there that set the standard

Poppy certainly sets a standard for effort when it comes to doing the team things.

He's slowing down but he's still one of the fastest and strongest guys we've got, he adds some real grunt to the front half and can pick up a few rotations in the middle to help ease the load on Jaeger, Worps and Cousins.

Getting smashed isn't good for the kids development, remove Poppy from the forward line and more of those diabolical entries are coming straight back out, that puts more on our already undermanned midfield and more on our defence, another area we are trying to rebuild.

At a certain point playing too many kids at once becomes counter productive to the teams development.

Obviously different people are going to have different views on what point that is, how many players, which ones etc

Clarko doesn't just want to develop the kids, he wants to get them playing a certain way, fitting into the game plan and playing their roles.

The easiest way to help them do that is have enough guys who can play the other roles and help them on field with positioning etc

He's going to move a few pieces around, he's going to play guys we don't think he should, and not play guys we do think he should because he's got his own plan on how to get the team competing for flags again.

Moore is a traveling emergency and could still play.

We have enough experience in the side to ensure Moore has enough direction, particularly in the forward line with Punky and Gunno... don’t forget we also have Silk/Stratts/Hendo/Shiels and BB and Smith when fit to lead these young guys.

For mine Dylan has shown more than enough to persist with, he should at least be playing ahead of Glass.

 

[OnceKicked50]

Fair point mate.. but again I ask, do you think he’s apart of the next premiership? If not, what purpose to our long term success does it provide to play him ahead of youngster? We routinely run out with the oldest team in the league, a perfect chance for that to change is to replace guys like Pop.

We aren’t winning a flag in 19 and unlikely 20, pop isn’t going to be around.

100% this.

 

[SHAKESPEARE]

Fair point mate.. but again I ask, do you think he’s apart of the next premiership? If not, what purpose to our long term success does it provide to play him ahead of youngster? We routinely run out with the oldest team in the league, a perfect chance for that to change is to replace guys like Pop.

We aren’t winning a flag in 19 and unlikely 20, pop isn’t going to be around.

oh boy you are gutsy saying this

 

[OnceKicked50]

They don't play the same role.
Poppy averages 2 inside 50 tackles a game, Moore averages 2 tackles a game total.

Moore is playing more HHF than FP
Poppy also will attend centre bounces every week, Moore has lined up on the wing once.

I actually really like your logically posts mate, so I'm not responding as an argument here.

I agree that they haven't been playing the same role, but wouldn't it be a great opportunity to see if Moore can?

If they are not playing the same role, then stats highlighting Poppy having more tackles inside 50 is irrelevant. I'd have liked us to give that role to Moore so that we can then see how he stacks up.

We need to work out what he can do at an AFL level.

 

[Brishawk]

We have enough experience in the side to ensure Moore has enough direction, particularly in the forward line with Punky and Gunno... don’t forget we also have Silk/Stratts/Hendo/Shiels and BB and Smith when fit to lead these young guys.

For mine Dylan has shown more than enough to persist with, he should at least be playing ahead of Glass.

Have you actually watched hawthorn play in the last 10 years? Forwardline pressure is a fundamental necessity. We kick it in and we pressure the opposition into making a mistake and kick a goal or e force a long bomb out for a turnover and we repeat the process until we score. If we don’t pressure the defenders we don’t score. Think we have trouble scoring now, wait until we drop poppy and Breust and see how we go...

If Moore is going replace poppy he needs to bring that defensive pressure as a starting point before he gets a game. It’s not the weakness in your game we are going to carry at afl level in that role.

 

[Gralin]

We have enough experience in the side to ensure Moore has enough direction, particularly in the forward line with Punky and Gunno... don’t forget we also have Silk/Stratts/Hendo/Shiels and BB and Smith when fit to lead these young guys.

For mine Dylan has shown more than enough to persist with, he should at least be playing ahead of Glass.

Well Glass is quicker than Moore, both decent runners though.

Glass is also bigger and currently able to put on more consistent defensive pressure.

Beautiful kick of the footy too, if we can see more inside 50s from him like the two pearlers last week he might just grow on you a little Tige

He's also being trialed in a different position to Moore

They played him as a mid on the weekend, and have done at Box Hill with some success this year.

He's a good size for that at 189cm, is faster and a better kick than most of our mids, worth a shot.

I think more importantly he's a more mature body than Moore, and can take a few more hits and apply some more serious pressure at this point.

I was really impressed with Dylan's courage and ability to keep going after a few big hits against the tigers, especially the one in the marking contest that floored him. But he's only 19 and very light, he might be the a little taller than Poppy but he's about 8kgs of muscle lighter than him. I expect he will get more games this season and with another preseason will get a shot at becoming a regular.

I actually really like your logically posts mate, so I'm not responding as an argument here.

I agree that they haven't been playing the same role, but wouldn't it be a great opportunity to see if Moore can?

If they are not playing the same role, then stats highlighting Poppy having more tackles inside 50 is irrelevant. I'd have liked us to give that role to Moore so that we can then see how he stacks up.

We need to work out what he can do at an AFL level.

I can tell you right now he's not going to stack up in that role. He's a completely different build, just because he's around Poppy's height doesn't mean he's anything like him in size or how he plays.

He'd outrun Poppy if they played on a wing all day but he'd get beaten pretty convincingly inside forward 50 if they were playing on each other.

Poppy has got a good 8kgs of muscle on him, and he's bloody strong through his hips. Way more explosive too.

My point about forward 50 tackles was relevant it's an elite stat.

Zorko is first in the comp with 20 tackles inside 50 at 2.2 per game
Poppy is second on 18 running at exactly 2 per game
Breust and Tippa are equal 3rd on 17 at a rate of 1.89 per game

It's a strength of ours and a big part of our game plan, and not something that just anyone can do.

You're fixated on Moore vs Poppy because of their stature and the fact that Moore plays forward. You see Poppy as the weak link in the forward line because he is not hitting the scoreboard regularly, you want Moore in so Poppy is your choice to come out.

They aren't a straight swap no matter how much you want them to be. He went out this week for Wingard. Nobody is arguing that move.

Wingard can put some pressure on, but he hasn't shown the ability to do it at the level of Poppy or Breust yet, fitness will help that, but I'd rather Wingard finishing and Poppy running himself ragged, than Wingard apply the pressure and Moore trying to finish.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Classic stuff

You should try it one time.

 

[Mrzohs]

Round 20, 2018.
Haw 16.11.107 v Ess 16.7.103

93 v the Blues in Tassie in round 6 this year the closest since.

To long between drinks i think...
Time to re arrange the deck chairs..

 

[tige19]

You should try it one time.

I think you like me the way I am.. surely ?

 

[tige19]

Have you actually watched hawthorn play in the last 10 years? Forwardline pressure is a fundamental necessity. We kick it in and we pressure the opposition into making a mistake and kick a goal or e force a long bomb out for a turnover and we repeat the process until we score. If we don’t pressure the defenders we don’t score. Think we have trouble scoring now, wait until we drop poppy and Breust and see how we go...

If Moore is going replace poppy he needs to bring that defensive pressure as a starting point before he gets a game. It’s not the weakness in your game we are going to carry at afl level in that role.

Nup, never have I watched us over the last 10 years...

You’re actually missing my point, I recognised and acknowledged that Moores forward pressure isn’t great, but I also feel he needs continuity at the elite level to develop it. My case centres around Pop not being part of our future success, that being the reality would suggest its categorically fruitless him playing ahead of those that possibly could be apart of our success.

Clarko has made the call on Ruff, it was the right one, I also think that Birch has been called (mutually), the next in line will be pop. This transition has to happen, the only thing that will prolong it is if this average team turn it around over the next 3-5 weeks and we are a live chance of finals footy. If that was the case then I am happy to concede that Pop holds his spot for interim, a lot rides on the next 4-5 games, I think the +30s would know it.

 

[tige19]

Well Glass is quicker than Moore, both decent runners though.

Glass is also bigger and currently able to put on more consistent defensive pressure.

Beautiful kick of the footy too, if we can see more inside 50s from him like the two pearlers last week he might just grow on you a little Tige

He's also being trialed in a different position to Moore

They played him as a mid on the weekend, and have done at Box Hill with some success this year.

He's a good size for that at 189cm, is faster and a better kick than most of our mids, worth a shot.

I think more importantly he's a more mature body than Moore, and can take a few more hits and apply some more serious pressure at this point.

I was really impressed with Dylan's courage and ability to keep going after a few big hits against the tigers, especially the one in the marking contest that floored him. But he's only 19 and very light, he might be the a little taller than Poppy but he's about 8kgs of muscle lighter than him. I expect he will get more games this season and with another preseason will get a shot at becoming a regular.


I can tell you right now he's not going to stack up in that role. He's a completely different build, just because he's around Poppy's height doesn't mean he's anything like him in size or how he plays.

He'd outrun Poppy if they played on a wing all day but he'd get beaten pretty convincingly inside forward 50 if they were playing on each other.

Poppy has got a good 8kgs of muscle on him, and he's bloody strong through his hips. Way more explosive too.

My point about forward 50 tackles was relevant it's an elite stat.

Zorko is first in the comp with 20 tackles inside 50 at 2.2 per game
Poppy is second on 18 running at exactly 2 per game
Breust and Tippa are equal 3rd on 17 at a rate of 1.89 per game

It's a strength of ours and a big part of our game plan, and not something that just anyone can do.

You're fixated on Moore vs Poppy because of their stature and the fact that Moore plays forward. You see Poppy as the weak link in the forward line because he is not hitting the scoreboard regularly, you want Moore in so Poppy is your choice to come out.

They aren't a straight swap no matter how much you want them to be. He went out this week for Wingard. Nobody is arguing that move.

Wingard can put some pressure on, but he hasn't shown the ability to do it at the level of Poppy or Breust yet, fitness will help that, but I'd rather Wingard finishing and Poppy running himself ragged, than Wingard apply the pressure and Moore trying to finish.

Seldom do the Irish experiments pay off... maybe 5-6 over the last 15-20 years? There’s been tons of them come through the league, I don’t see anything from Glass that suggest he’ll be one out of the box.

 

[Mrzohs]

Calm down lads we all love the hawks!! Some people get way to defensive if someone has a different opinion.
I personally think there will be a late out why are 3 talls emergencies.

 

[Gralin]

Seldom do the Irish experiments pay off... maybe 5-6 over the last 15-20 years? There’s been tons of them come through the league, I don’t see anything from Glass that suggest he’ll be one out of the box.

Which is fine. Club are trying him in a different role, could be a last roll of the dice.

He's got some attributes we need. His combination of size speed and kicking as a mid if we can harness it would add a dimension we are missing.

He showed he could get to some dangerous spots and his delivery into our forward 50 was something we've missed, penetrating kicks on the run to the advantage of our forwards.

If he can get to the point where he's up around 20 and 4-5 quality inside 50s a game imagine what that would do for us.

 

[Noel Gallagher]

Which is fine. Club are trying him in a different role, could be a last roll of the dice.

He's got some attributes we need. His combination of size speed and kicking as a mid if we can harness it would add a dimension we are missing.

He showed he could get to some dangerous spots and his delivery into our forward 50 was something we've missed, penetrating kicks on the run to the advantage of our forwards.

If he can get to the point where he's up around 20 and 4-5 quality inside 50s a game imagine what that would do for us.

I actually rate Glass higher than Nash. Matches Nash for athletic prowes but is a much better field kick and contested mark. Agree - the Irish recruits are always a long shot but if they come up good it can pay off big time

 

[Simon Crawshay]

I actually rate Glass higher than Nash. Matches Nash for athletic prowes but is a much better field kick and contested mark. Agree - the Irish recruits are always a long shot but if they come up good it can pay off big time

Agree. I also think Glass has a more inate understanding of the game than Nash. Not saying he will make it but whenever i have watched Glass i have seen signs that he can be an AFL player, whereas Nash strikes me as being quite a long way off the mark (not athetically but in his reading of the game, skills, etc).

 

[tige19]

I actually rate Glass higher than Nash. Matches Nash for athletic prowes but is a much better field kick and contested mark. Agree - the Irish recruits are always a long shot but if they come up good it can pay off big time

Glass is lengths ahead of Nash... both in my eyes aren’t going to make it but ive been wrong before and id bloody love Glass to be another inside mid to help us out, we sure as hell need it.

 

[Sicily]

Would like to see Glass apply the red mist and use that bigger body to good effect - like many in the team, he lacks genuine ferocity at the contest. We no longer intimidate our opposition

 

[5ammy]

Wingard looked very smooth in the open session today, a man on a mission. Here’s hoping he can put on a masterclass against his old mob tomorrow. I can feel it in my bones!

 

[Brishawk]

Nup, never have I watched us over the last 10 years...

You’re actually missing my point, I recognised and acknowledged that Moores forward pressure isn’t great, but I also feel he needs continuity at the elite level to develop it. My case centres around Pop not being part of our future success, that being the reality would suggest its categorically fruitless him playing ahead of those that possibly could be apart of our success.

Clarko has made the call on Ruff, it was the right one, I also think that Birch has been called (mutually), the next in line will be pop. This transition has to happen, the only thing that will prolong it is if this average team turn it around over the next 3-5 weeks and we are a live chance of finals footy. If that was the case then I am happy to concede that Pop holds his spot for interim, a lot rides on the next 4-5 games, I think the +30s would know it.

Moore will never play poppy’s Role. He lacks the acceleration and speed. So to play him in poppy’s Role is to compromise his development as he will be a high half forward, wingman. Maybe run through the middle for short periods. He is fighting with Morrison for a gig and the club think Morrison is a better bet right now.

All you are saying he is young so give him a game regardless of wether he can contribute. Roughy isn’t the right comparison because poppy is still elite at inside fixity pressure and tackles. Poppy’s pressure brings others into the game and makes our system function. Moore doesn’t add that for us in poppy’s role so it hurts others if we try and shoe horn him into it.

 

[Gaston]

Wingard looked very smooth in the open session today, a man on a mission. Here’s hoping he can put on a masterclass against his old mob tomorrow. I can feel it in my bones!

And what length was his jumper?

 

[5ammy]

And what length was his jumper?

Sleeveless, but he was wearing a beanie!

 

[WWSD]

If Nash has a future in the team it needs to be as a defender where he reads it much better then as a forward.