Preview Round 10, 2020: Gold Coast v St.Kilda - Metricon Stadium, Thursday 6th August, 8:10PM AEST *RYDER 250TH*

Who Wins?

  • Suns

    Votes: 3 5.8%
  • Saints

    Votes: 49 94.2%

  • Total voters
    52

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Savage was awful. I’ve only watched half the replay and all of his kicks bar one were at least 40m long and 40m high which ended up in opposition hands. Very happy to see Long back....just no silly free kicks in the back half please :D
 
Long was best 22 all year until getting suspended, was always coming straight back in. He averages the most intercept possessions out of our whole backline.

Savage wasn’t even selected in the 22 last week. He was 23rd man and came in for Ross as a late change. He had a solid performance. But he’s not best 22 and having 1 solid performance as a late inclusion doesn’t outweigh Long’s impressive first 6 weeks of football this year.


Long has been okay but not great. He's not as likely to bomb long and turn the ball over but he's not exactly dominating either. I probably would have gone with Savage again.
 

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Since I started this can I offer up possessions, marks, i50's, tackles, rebound 50's, 1%'s., clearances, score involvement, scores, metres gained.

Long has been OK but he is seen as the future and that is why he is being played ahead of Savage - not because Savage is crap.

Savage was awful. I’ve only watched half the replay and all of his kicks bar one were at least 40m long and 40m high which ended up in opposition hands. Very happy to see Long back....just no silly free kicks in the back half please :D

7 kicks that hit a target >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 13 kicks with your eyes closed

Savage's style left with Richo
 
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You do understand how selection should and does work. Savage got a game because of a late change. He was and should be first out. And it depends what your definition of a good game is.


So if a player was last-in plays well and someone else is s**t the last in is first-out still?
 
7 kicks that hit a target >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 13 kicks with your eyes closed

I'm hardly Long's biggest fan, but Savage's style left with Richo
When he first came he looked to hit targets and was super damaging....then he got Richo’d.
 

12Chill

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Long has been okay but not great. He's not as likely to bomb long and turn the ball over but he's not exactly dominating either. I probably would have gone with Savage again.

Long’s ~7 intercept possessions a game and 83% disposal efficiency are the standouts for me, exactly what we want in a half back. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a Sav hater and definitely don’t think he’s crap as pebbles seemed to have suggested- but Long is about to turn 23 and Sav is closer to 30.

Long is about 6 games into his AFL career off half back and hasn’t dominated as you said, but has looked very promising and we can only assume it’s onwards and upwards from here. Stack games into him back there and imagine him in a year or two. In two years Sav will probably be at the end. We know what he can produce and while it’s usually very solid I think our 22 has moved past him. Absolutely love having him as depth though, if any of the mid sized defenders get injured and he comes in I’m happy.

But there’s no way I’d sacrifice games into Long for Sav considering the way they’re both playing at the moment. If Long has a quiet few games though I would revisit the conversation, obviously the goal is to win games, just not convinced Sav actually brings us closer to that than Long does.
 
Longs performances this year have been better than Savages one game on the weekend and suits the way Ratten wants us to play.

Simple as that.


I reckon Long's best was preseason form. He's not been that good to me. He's building still but he doesn't own a spot yet IMO.
 
Long’s ~7 intercept possessions a game and 83% disposal efficiency are the standouts for me, exactly what we want in a half back. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a Sav hater and definitely don’t think he’s crap as pebbles seemed to have suggested- but Long is about to turn 23 and Sav is closer to 30.

Long is about 6 games into his AFL career off half back and hasn’t dominated as you said, but has looked very promising and we can only assume it’s onwards and upwards from here. Stack games into him back there and imagine him in a year or two. In two years Sav will probably be at the end. We know what he can produce and while it’s usually very solid I think our 22 has moved past him. Absolutely love having him as depth though, if any of the mid sized defenders get injured and he comes in I’m happy.

But there’s no way I’d sacrifice games into Long for Sav considering the way they’re both playing at the moment. If Long has a quiet few games though I would revisit the conversation, obviously the goal is to win games, just not convinced Sav actually brings us closer to that than Long does.


Look at the kick to HB ratio of the 2 and meters gained though, Ben is a running line breaker who dishes by hand, Sav a running line breaker that kicks long. HB is always going to be more accurate. They look pretty similar to me apart from the way the use the footy. Savage started to short kick too late unfortunately. I think guys on the fringe of best 22 are looking like they are playing to keep a spot instead of team footy without VFL as a show of quality.
 

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Ben does a lot more in the back half with his presence. Be it contesting in marks, his attack on the loose ball and the overall excitement he brings to our team cannot be matched by Savage. Moreover, he's a good kick, finds targets and hits them. He can be a loose cannon at times though, but he's still inexperienced.

We know what we will get from Sav. I think we can all agree, he's a good back up experienced winger/HBer to have, He's not in our best 22 anymore.
 
Ben does a lot more in the back half with his presence. Be it contesting in marks, his attack on the loose ball and the overall excitement he brings to our team cannot be matched by Savage. Moreover, he's a good kick, finds targets and hits them. He can be a loose cannon at times though, but he's still inexperienced.

We know what we will get from Sav. I think we can all agree, he's a good back up experienced winger/HBer to have, He's not in our best 22 anymore.


I agree in part, I think Savage is still best 22 quality but Long has more improvement in him. I think you can get a pissed off fringe if you don't reward form. Long getting one more week off for ill discipline wouldn't have hurt and given Savage another run, I would look at playing some fringe into form in case of injury. They don't get better doing nothing.
 
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So if a player was last-in plays well and someone else is sh*t the last in is first-out still?
Yes for sure if the other player has points in the bank. It’s much better for the team morale The last player can stay in if he plays well and a similar player is struggling. It’s ok to disagree but I’m yet to hear how savage could have actually stayed in the side.
 
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I reckon Long's best was preseason form. He's not been that good to me. He's building still but he doesn't own a spot yet IMO.
You need to look at the style we play footy now. It's changed since Richo was coaching.

Have a look at our back 6. All have relatively low metres gained stats and despite this all have relatively high disposal efficiency.

This is because we aren't blindly kicking long down the line out of defence. We are much more inclined to lower our eyes and pull the trigger in the corridor.

Long is able to do this. Savage has proved for years he isn't. Had a chance on the weekend and clearly didn't play to the plan.

On top of that Long has been our best intercept player and one of our best contested ball winners.

He's not starring by any means, but he is playing his role and doing it well.
 
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I agree in part, I think Savage is still best 22 quality but Long has more improvement in him. I think you can get a pissed off fringe if you don't reward form. Long getting one more week off for ill discipline wouldn't have hurt and given Savage another run, I would look at playing some fringe into form in case of injury. They don't get better doing nothing.

I’m a big fan of Sav & think people have forgotten just how good his 2019 season was.

But

Long is a better defender, better runner, better tackler & overall better player IMO. He is obviously still learning his role at HB but he’s certainly holding his own already.

It’s a no brainer for him to replace Sav.


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Veer Right

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I thought Long has been great this year, his hard edge attacking style will very much needed against the better teams. I am surprised Savage has been omitted yet i don't see how there is a comparison between these two players. Longs gone past him this year and this is coming from a major detractor of his up until this year.

Ratten keeps doing everything right so far. I hope him playing a full strength side tomorrow doesn't come to bite us in the ass on Monday with a four day turnaround but for now i have faith.

We win tomorrow which will happen if we bring our best and we are second on the ladder and with seven rounds remaining it would be a damn shame to miss the top four.
 
Sav awfully stiff to not even make the squad after a perfectly fine overall game last week where he did plenty of good things.

i reckon he would be a perfect candidate to suit another side. he can still play and play well.

we are rebuilding for the next 3 seasons, so we are going with youth.

can see him fitting a couple of sides out there.
 
I’m a big fan of Sav & think people have forgotten just how good his 2019 season was.

But

Long is a better defender, better runner, better tackler & overall better player IMO. He is obviously still learning his role at HB but he’s certainly holding his own already.

It’s a no brainer for him to replace Sav.


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+1 to this

plus long will be around for half a decade plus than savage given their ages
 
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i reckon he would be a perfect candidate to suit another side. he can still play and play well.

we are rebuilding for the next 3 seasons, so we are going with youth.

can see him fitting a couple of sides out there.
Not a hope. I’d say his career is over at the end of this year. You don’t need older hbf in any side unless they are stars like hodge. Leave the easiest position on the ground to younger players
 

kernelT

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Pretty rough on Savage in here I reckon… plays a different game to Long.

Savage last week
483m gained (elite)
5 rebound 05's (elite)
4 inside 50's (elite)
4 spoils
3 tackles
2 clearances
2 intercept marks


Long average this year
130m gained
1.5 rebound 50's
0.8 inside 50's
1.5 spoils
2.3 tackles
0 clearances
1 intercept mark

We keep talking about run and drive off half back but Long doesn't really offer that… he's a really good intercept player and reads the play well but he's not really giving us that rebound defensive drive that people think. Happy he's back in the side but I don't think we need to rubbish what Savage did last week, there are not many sides that his game would get you dropped from.

Our defence has been rock solid this year but we don't really have anyone playing that level of attacking rebound from defence like Savage was last week.
 

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i'm worried.....what else is new?.. Suns played GWS...i would argue... a much tougher team than Sydney presented to us....so they will be sharpened ...although our effort against Sydney was satisfactory in the end...were we sharpene or dulled a little by comparison...sometimes the opposition played the week before prepares you better like the sharpening strop to a blade.
Rembering they beat Sydney 92 to 60 then faced Bulldogs then Giants
 
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