Autopsy Round 10, 2022: Hawks hunt down the Lions

[TheFourPillars]

Agreed. The issue I see is that the evolving complexity of the rules making them more subjective is reducing the percentage of the result that comes down to how the players are performing.

To pull numbers out of thin air. If results came down to 99% player influence and 1% human error of umpires then I think people would be happy with that. But at the moment with how the rules are it's probably closer to 90% player influence and 10% human error of umpires.

Telling umpires to pay 50m penalties for any action from a player they personally might consider to be an act of dissent is sprinting in the wrong direction of how things need to be going.

It would be interesting to quantify this over the years but i am not sure its in the best interest of the game

 

[TheFourPillars]

To say umpiring decisions have no impact on a match is complete crap.

BUT the amount of influence they have on outcome of matches vs the outcries and outrage over umpiring blows my mind. Very rarely do umpiring decisions have the kind of impact that would influence the result of a match and that is fact.

But it has happened before and will happen again. In saying that over the years and watching hundreds of Hawthorn matches, only 3 really stand out in my mind where umpire influence changed the result in a negative way for us. 2016 semi (but as you point out player mistakes played a huge role in this too - Breust missed a sitter that puts us 6 goals up and Doggies probably give up), 2019 - no excuse for this game, and our favourite 2001 prelim. Maybe our 2013 prelim as well but we were good enough anyway.

I never said they had no impact mate. As I mentioned very often when we discuss this Umpires make mistakes but what I do maintain is that it never costs any team a game in the scheme of things there are always other reasons over the 120 minutes of the game. Umpires play a small part in the game. The game is largely controlled by two teams playing and the mistakes made by those two teams

 

[Yardie]

I never said they had no impact mate. As I mentioned very often when we discuss this Umpires make mistakes but what I do maintain is that it never costs any team a game in the scheme of things there are always other reasons over the 120 minutes of the game. Umpires play a small part in the game. The game is largely controlled by two teams playing and the mistakes made by those two teams

Goldspink says hi!

 

[Stratton24]

See you're looking at a single contest in a game that runs 120 minutes mate. Umpires can and will make mistakes. Its been part of the game for ever. If you are relying on the umpire to make the correct call you are relying on things you can not control. Games are won and lost by the players. They play the game they defend they attack they score the goals. The umpires do not. I think this what you need to instill into the players as a coach (having been one myself). That way they do not focus on the decision but focus their attention on the game and next contest.

If Isaac Smith kicks the goal after the siren in the 2016 Qualifying final we win the game. Players and umpires can win and lose games.

 

[KermitJagger]

If Isaac Smith kicks the goal after the siren in the 2016 Qualifying final we win the game. Players and umpires can win and lose games.

If the person executing the final bit of play in a close game is responsible for winning or losing a game, why play 4 x 30 minute quarters at all? Just have two blokes fight over a ball in the middle of the ground and the first one who puts it through the goals or the behinds wins.

It's not one player's fault if they miss a goal after the siren and we lose by 59 points instead of 54, so it shouldn't be their fault if it's a 1 point margin. There are 120 minutes worth of game deciding moments that happen prior.

 

[Stratton24]

If the person executing the final bit of play in a close game is responsible for winning or losing a game, why play 4 x 30 minute quarters at all? Just have two blokes fight over a ball in the middle of the ground and the first one who puts it through the goals or the behinds wins.

It's not one player's fault if they miss a goal after the siren and we lose by 59 points instead of 54, so it shouldn't be their fault if it's a 1 point margin. There are 120 minutes worth of game deciding moments that happen prior.

Smith kicks the goal we win

 

[TheFourPillars]

Smith kicks the goal we win

Mate seriously...

 

[TheFourPillars]

Smith kicks the goal we win

How many behinds did we kick for the game each of those scores had to been a goal we would have won. Its a ridiculous argument

 

[Stratton24]

Mate seriously...

it's not rocket science - many things make up a game but at the death players and umpires can both win or lose a game

 

[Changa10]

There was also a Daniel Rich spoil that got called deliberate that amused me.
I thought anything that constitutes a defensive act like a spoil couldn’t be considered as deliberate

If that's the one I'm thinking of (wing near Brisbane coaches box) it was as clear a deliberate call as I will see. Correct call.

It wasn't a marking contest, it was a bouncing ball that he clearly knocked straight to the boundary.

 

[Stratton24]

How many behinds did we kick for the game each of those scores had to been a goal we would have won. Its a ridiculous argument

the butterfly effect - if we were 3 points up with a minute to play the whole game is different, we are defending , the Cats are attacking. Teams play the scoreboard, you can't just say if a team kicks 1 goal 10 with 10 easy misses then they should have scored 66 instead of 16

 

[TheFourPillars]

the butterfly effect - if we were 3 points up with a minute to play the whole game is different, we are defending , the Cats are attacking. Teams play the scoreboard, you can't just say if a team kicks 1 goal 10 with 10 easy misses then they should have scored 66 instead of 16

That's just it mate they should have and if they had they would have won the game. Bad kicking is bad football in essence 10 basic errors made by our players. Its not about a butterfly effect the game doesn't start with minutes to go

 

[Stratton24]

That's just it mate they should have and if they had they would have won the game. Bad kicking is bad football in essence 10 basic errors made by our players. Its not about a butterfly effect the game doesn't start with minutes to go

Simple question. If a player kicks a goal after the siren when his team is 3 points down who wins?

 

[TheFourPillars]

Simple question. If a player kicks a goal after the siren when his team is 3 points down who wins?

It is very simplistic and doesn't take into account the rest of the game. Winning the game after the siren may make you the hero but you may or may not have been the whole reason for us winning the game. As player might have played a game like Jai and another player could have kicked 5 during the game. When the game is reviewed the last kick won't be the focus

 

[hebog]

Chris Fagan reckons goals from free kicks was "the reason they won the game".

Discuss.

The senior umpire on the field gave the first soft free kick to Brisbane, the other two umpires seemed to think that was the standard to follow, hence the high number of frees.

 

[KermitJagger]

Simple question. If a player kicks a goal after the siren when his team is 3 points down who wins?

Simple answer, the team wins - not the player.

 

[Stratton24]

Simple answer, the team wins - not the player.

Because the player kicked the goal

 

[KermitJagger]

Because the player kicked the goal

Player doesn't kick the goal without the bloke who kicked it to him, and he doesn't kick it to him without the bloke that tapped it down. How far back do you take it?

 

[eldorado]

 

[Judd2Sewell]

If a player had one touch for the entire game, that being an after the siren goal to win, are they the BOG?

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

Naah you can not convince me of this. Free kicks umpires do not win you matches

Well, they can, but so can the bounce of the ball.

Both come down to random luck.

It's easy to pot umpires watching in HD from multiple angles but if the umpires view is blocked by another player and he misses a throw for example, that isn't s**t umpiring, it's just bad luck.

It's just part of our game.

It took me years to realise this an vs live with it and I am far, far less frustrated watching games now.

did you watch our 2019 early season game v the Dogs?

Except Mollinson. He can do one. He was also one of the record breaking umpires on Sunday

s**t now I don't know what my point is

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

It is very simplistic and doesn't take into account the rest of the game. Winning the game after the siren may make you the hero but you may or may not have been the whole reason for us winning the game. As player might have played a game like Jai and another player could have kicked 5 during the game. When the game is reviewed the last kick won't be the focus

Is a bit like referring to a missed shot with 5 minutes to go as the reason for a loss. It's the butterfly effect (?) Change one thing and everything changes.

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[Snakelilbandit]

Cj in the ruck ???? Dont send a Ferrari to plough a field ( no offense ruckman )

CJ is a Bugatti

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[Maybloomer]

It’s a shame that every article in the media criticising the umpiring shows an umpire, it should show Brad Scott and Gil. The umpires are very very good at doing what they are told and therein lies the problem. It’s these new rules that unfuriates me, not the people who have to apply them.

I am positive the umpires would love to pay half as many free kicks for half as many reasons. It would make their job easier, would probably reduce the vitriol from the fans and players as they can actually understand what is going on and also enhance the progression for budding senior umpires - less moving parts to deal with and a smoother transition from lower ranks.

This is all on the AFL but like any dictatorship, those with power to question it dare not.

 

[Maybloomer]

If a player had one touch for the entire game, that being an after the siren goal to win, are they the BOG?

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