Autopsy Round 11, 2019: St.Kilda v Port Adelaide

dct66

Premium Gold
Jun 19, 2014
1,243
2,471
AFL Club
St Kilda
Thanks for this.

Question for you, would you recommend going next year for others, like me, that are contemplating it? I was really close to pulling the trigger but had a late family commitment that stopped me (obviously I'm glad I didn't now...).

Any tips I should know about? Is it just a matter of booking a ticket to Shanghai and rocking up and getting a ticket at the ground or are there things I should know about in advance?

Would really appreciate a rundown if you have time as it will influence whether or not I go next year (and I'm sure there are others in the same boat as me that would like to know as well).
Sorry, I should have said. I pre-booked my tickets before I left but did all the other travel arrangements myself and didn't have any need for the other sightseeing things that the organised tours were offering. If you are a confident traveller you can get around with little difficulty. The Metro ticket machines have English and Chinese options. The taxis, in general are good. Keep clear of the old red ones or if the driver wants to quote a price rather than use the meter. Most wont speak English so you need the address in Chinese to show them. Either from your guide book or the internet. The hotel will help you get a cab and tell the driver where you want to go but you'll need to have the address of the next place if you need to hail one yourself ... or use the Metro!!! Apple maps works really well and Google maps does bot work at all. Nothing Google works. I usually get a local sim (so my wife and I can go our separate ways but keep in contact to meet up when we are ready). We get the sims from China Unicom and a plan with 500 mins talk, 80 SMS messages and 3GB of data cost about A$20. The plans are always changing and they have lots of stores in downtown Shanghai and I always found at least one member of staff who speaks enough English to get the job done.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

NarklesHelmet

Premiership Player
Sep 17, 2010
4,281
13,162
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Manchester City, AIK, Raiders
Sorry, I should have said. I pre-booked my tickets before I left but did all the other travel arrangements myself and didn't have any need for the other sightseeing things that the organised tours were offering. If you are a confident traveller you can get around with little difficulty. The Metro ticket machines have English and Chinese options. The taxis, in general are good. Keep clear of the old red ones or if the driver wants to quote a price rather than use the meter. Most wont speak English so you need the address in Chinese to show them. Either from your guide book or the internet. The hotel will help you get a cab and tell the driver where you want to go but you'll need to have the address of the next place if you need to hail one yourself ... or use the Metro!!! Apple maps works really well and Google maps does bot work at all. Nothing Google works. I usually get a local sim (so my wife and I can go our separate ways but keep in contact to meet up when we are ready). We get the sims from China Unicom and a plan with 500 mins talk, 80 SMS messages and 3GB of data cost about A$20. The plans are always changing and they have lots of stores in downtown Shanghai and I always found at least one member of staff who speaks enough English to get the job done.
Thanks a lot for both replies! Appreciate it, really useful stuff. I'm certainly more of a confident traveller so it sounds like the way you did it suits me down to the ground.

I'll definitely be going in one of the 2 next years so might message you closer to the time as well if I have anything more specific :).
 

BringBackPowerFwds

Slightly Unhinged
May 27, 2018
1,793
6,297
The Goal Square
AFL Club
St Kilda
What else dd you do in Shanghai? Did you go anywhere else in China/Asia?
Shanghai was a layover from our European vacation. As per your previous post the Bund is well worth the visit. We also went to the top of the Shanghai Eye which is 100 stories high and has a glass floor.
Agree with you that food is fantastic. I'm still thinking about a pork belly dish I ate.
20190601_161939.jpg
 

dct66

Premium Gold
Jun 19, 2014
1,243
2,471
AFL Club
St Kilda
Thanks a lot for both replies! Appreciate it, really useful stuff. I'm certainly more of a confident traveller so it sounds like the way you did it suits me down to the ground.

I'll definitely be going in one of the 2 next years so might message you closer to the time as well if I have anything more specific :).
Please do. Happy to help/bore you stupid with information overload :)
 

dct66

Premium Gold
Jun 19, 2014
1,243
2,471
AFL Club
St Kilda
Shanghai was a layover from our European vacation. As per your previous post the Bund is well worth the visit. We also went to the top of the Shanghai Eye which is 100 stories high and has a glass floor.
Agree with you that food is fantastic. I'm still thinking about a pork belly dish I ate.
View attachment 686931
How much fun is that glass floor!!!
 

cooperg

All Australian
Oct 3, 2016
701
604
AFL Club
St Kilda
In: HIND, Acres, Webster/White, McKenzie, Marsh
Out: Geary (inj), LONG, Joyce, Coffield, Young.

If no Webster then either in White, Paton , King or Armo.
 

pebblesofsand

Premiership Player
Oct 18, 2011
4,393
10,304
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Ocean Grove Collendina Cobras
Couple of simple questions. Longer or Marshall as first ruck? And why don't hit outs lead to clearances?
In the context of the discussion about whether we should have pursued Lycett - your first question is not relevant.

Hit outs do lead to clearances especially if you a have good midfield, in which case they even lead to that mythical entity called a "scoring opportunity clearance" rather than a scrambled helicopter kick clearance which you may know as the "Saints clearance".

So the question really is - would a substandard midfield perform better if they were getting better service from a ruckman who could do more than break even at ball ups?

Which brings us back to the original question being discussed - would our ruck stocks have been improved if we recruited Lycett?
 

pebblesofsand

Premiership Player
Oct 18, 2011
4,393
10,304
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Ocean Grove Collendina Cobras
I would've thought a club that played Weller and Newnes injured for a year each would already know that.
Here's a rule of thumb: If Dustin Martin can't play well when injured then it probably can't be done.

How Geary passed a fitness test is absolutely beyond me. Turned his body to avoid contact in his first contest.
Lethlean should be going through the medical/selection process to ensure integrity in the future. Without exception.

Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk
A word of advice - don't let your thought patterns be directed by Channel 7 commentators especially Dwayne Russell.

Geary turned his body to protect the ball from being knocked out of his hands - something many of our defenders seemed to forget to do for the whole of the game.
 

mad-saint-guy

Premiership Player
Apr 13, 2005
3,216
1,870
Toronto, ON
AFL Club
St Kilda
I would love for these to be our changes for the next game

Out: Geary (inj), Young, Kent, Newnes, Joyce, Phillips
In: Hind, Clark, Marsh, McKenzie, White, Acres

B: Marsh, Brown, McKenzie
HB: Savage, Wilkie, White
C: Ross, Steele, Sinclair
HF: Billings, Bruce, Long
F: Parker, Battle, Membrey

Foll: Marshall, Gresham, Acres
Int: Clark, Coffield, Dunstan, Hind

Of course it won't be anything like that with Richo as coach. I do wonder if they'll rush Hanners or King into the side for a good news story though. King v King would generate plenty of interest.
 

luca77

Club Legend
Sep 5, 2010
1,121
3,355
Japan
AFL Club
St Kilda
I would love for these to be our changes for the next game

Out: Geary (inj), Young, Kent, Newnes, Joyce, Phillips
In: Hind, Clark, Marsh, McKenzie, White, Acres

B: Marsh, Brown, McKenzie
HB: Savage, Wilkie, White
C: Ross, Steele, Sinclair
HF: Billings, Bruce, Long
F: Parker, Battle, Membrey

Foll: Marshall, Gresham, Acres
Int: Clark, Coffield, Dunstan, Hind

Of course it won't be anything like that with Richo as coach. I do wonder if they'll rush Hanners or King into the side for a good news story though. King v King would generate plenty of interest.
Happy with all those changes. Would be nice!
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

plugger66

Brownlow Medallist
Jan 10, 2011
16,206
24,912
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Ormond AFC
In the context of the discussion about whether we should have pursued Lycett - your first question is not relevant.

Hit outs do lead to clearances especially if you a have good midfield, in which case they even lead to that mythical entity called a "scoring opportunity clearance" rather than a scrambled helicopter kick clearance which you may know as the "Saints clearance".

So the question really is - would a substandard midfield perform better if they were getting better service from a ruckman who could do more than break even at ball ups?

Which brings us back to the original question being discussed - would our ruck stocks have been improved if we recruited Lycett?
No idea but on your other part I gather the pies win clearances every week as do Melbourne as both have strong midfields and obviously they score more from those clearances. Someone better tell Melbourne. And by the way did you see our clearance numbers against port with lycett and Ryder rucking against Marshall. Hit outs are the most overrated stat in footy. Even hit outs to advantage are overrated unless we can at least see hit outs to disadvantage.

Just out of interest the question still stands. Longer who will get more hit outs or Marshall who will get more of the ball
 

kernelT

Premiership Player
Aug 15, 2010
3,083
8,250
AFL Club
St Kilda
While he was a bit shaky again, I'd rather we give Joyce a few games to give him a chance, Brown was as bad as anyone last week… we need to start getting games into his replacement which will hopefully be next year.

OUT
Brown, Geary, Phillips, Young

In
White, McKenzie, Clark, Acres
 

BrutThough

Premiership Player
Oct 2, 2010
4,233
14,364
AFL Club
St Kilda
While he was a bit shaky again, I'd rather we give Joyce a few games to give him a chance, Brown was as bad as anyone last week… we need to start getting games into his replacement which will hopefully be next year.

OUT
Brown, Geary, Phillips, Young

In
White, McKenzie, Clark, Acres
Isnt Brown's replacement Jake Carlisle?
No chance Joyce is viewed as his actual replacement.
 

kernelT

Premiership Player
Aug 15, 2010
3,083
8,250
AFL Club
St Kilda
Isnt Brown's replacement Jake Carlisle?
No chance Joyce is viewed as his actual replacement.
Where do you think they see Joyce playing?

He replaced Brown in round 7 & Brown replaced Joyce in round 2.

I would have thought Carlisle plays further up the ground than last line.
 

BrutThough

Premiership Player
Oct 2, 2010
4,233
14,364
AFL Club
St Kilda
Where do you think they see Joyce playing?

He replaced Brown in round 7.

I would have thought Carlisle plays further up the ground than last line.
I don't think the club sees Joyce as anything more than back-up player. Him playing instead of Brown against GWS is one of the most baffling selection decisions I can remember in recent times.

And in such a do or die game against the Gold Coast, it's not the best time to start experimenting with players and getting games into replacements. We must win that game and we are a much better side when Brown is at full back.
 

Saintbloke

Club Legend
Apr 26, 2015
1,611
2,487
AFL Club
St Kilda
While he was a bit shaky again, I'd rather we give Joyce a few games to give him a chance, Brown was as bad as anyone last week… we need to start getting games into his replacement which will hopefully be next year.

OUT
Brown, Geary, Phillips, Young

In
White, McKenzie, Clark, Acres
Take it easy on the backline- the midfield and forwards applied no defensive pressure against PA and let the ball relentlessly push into their forward half..hate to be a Saint backman in that game.
 

Mikka84

Premiership Player
Feb 9, 2009
3,212
10,662
AFL Club
St Kilda
Clark, McKenzie, Acres & White have to play.

Don't care who comes out. Take your pick of: Young, Newnes, Ross, Kent, Sinclair, Phillips & Joyce.

Would like to see Coffield have another one or two otherwise we would have lost a whole year on him. Long and Parker did enough to keep their spots, depending on how they pull up through the week.
 

kernelT

Premiership Player
Aug 15, 2010
3,083
8,250
AFL Club
St Kilda
I hate the idea of waiting till finals aren't mathematically possible before we put time into young promising players…

If we dropped the underperforming senior guys when they deserve it, we would be seeing a lot more players coming through the side.
 

kernelT

Premiership Player
Aug 15, 2010
3,083
8,250
AFL Club
St Kilda
Take it easy on the backline- the midfield and forwards applied no defensive pressure against PA and let the ball relentlessly push into their forward half..hate to be a Saint backman in that game.
Geary broke his leg, Brown had one kick and didn't take a single mark… his spoils are a liability which opp smalls just feast on IMO. He seems to get a free pass from most though.
 

MOLTEN GANGLANDS

Club Legend
Jun 4, 2018
1,210
3,916
AFL Club
St Kilda
Coff's gotta stay in, he wasn't anywhere near as bad as people are saying. We were completely overrun, hard for individual to look good in those circumstances.

Kent's been eh, but long and young have been more so, can't drop them all..

As much as I'd like to see newnes have a rest, we're an extremely young side and we really need the win, so the coaches won't do it... at least not until hanners is available.

out - young, long, joyce, phillips
in - clark, mckenzie, white, acres

Hope hind gets a look in soon too..
 

mightymalaka

What we have here is a failure to communicate!
May 7, 2018
5,061
15,405
Road to Nowhere
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Manchester United
I don't think the club sees Joyce as anything more than back-up player. Him playing instead of Brown against GWS is one of the most baffling selection decisions I can remember in recent times.

And in such a do or die game against the Gold Coast, it's not the best time to start experimenting with players and getting games into replacements. We must win that game and we are a much better side when Brown is at full back.
Agree that the selection of Joyce over Brown for GWS was baffling to say the least!
But i must say i don't really see Carlisle as our full back! Not this year or any year to be honest. For all of Jake's strengths, having him defend on the last line
Doesn't suit him! He's a bit too loose, plus trying to make him that accountable in a defence first role is wasting his talent in my opinion!

He's at his best as an attacking, intercept centre half back! With the odd run forward!
Does beggar the question though who our future Full back would be and Joyce is still a fair way off for all of his improvement!
Kernel's idea is not without merit though, the only way we can get him up to speed is to play him as much as possible to fastrack his development!
Difficult decision though whilst we are still contending for finals for a few weeks anyway, unless the bottom drops out and we are no chance!
The other options don't really look up to it. Austin way too loose from what we have seen so far, a bridge too far to expect Clavarino to be able to do it
In the next couple of years anyway.....Maybe Wilkie, he has exceeded our wildest expectations already and is versatile enough to be seen as a possible option!
Unless they are still planning on leaving Battle in defence to play Jake forward, which could work in short bursts, though for mine when everyone's fit
He goes forward as we are clearly lacking there and with his improvement, i'm excited to see how he goes doing what we drafted him for!

But then there's Winx who we no doubt see as our focal point! So to summarise i've rambled so much ****e i have now painted myself into a corner!!
For everyone's sanity i will stop now, plus i've given myself a headache!
Back to the Dungeon for me! Apologies all! :oops:
 

Pardon me

Club Legend
Aug 13, 2016
1,979
4,504
South Gippsland
AFL Club
St Kilda
Coff's gotta stay in, he wasn't anywhere near as bad as people are saying. We were completely overrun, hard for individual to look good in those circumstances.

Kent's been eh, but long and young have been more so, can't drop them all..

As much as I'd like to see newnes have a rest, we're an extremely young side and we really need the win, so the coaches won't do it... at least not until hanners is available.

out - young, long, joyce, phillips
in - clark, mckenzie, white, acres

Hope hind gets a look in soon too..
I really like this MG, and the week after potentially Hanners and Carlisle also?
Coffield looked lost last week but you can't blame him the way our defensive pressure was nil and Port opened us up on the fast break. He needs games to develop.
Joyce Young* has been MIA for 3 weeks now and probably needs time in the 2's to find form.
I hate the bye rounds but at least we have the MND fundraiser on Queen's Birthday and the cricket Sunday night. Maybe game 4 in the NBA too...? I'll have to check that. Loch food and wine festival this week also...
All in all - I'm not reading too much into last weeks performance, few tweaks and a couple more goals per game and we'll start looking a completely different side. Not convinced we'll make finals, did a quick ladder predictor and had us finishing on 11 wins with the top 8 needing 13.
Can't sack Richo based on an 11 win season and the injuries we've had, reckon it's 50/50 either an amicable split or extension.

*Edit
 
Last edited:

BrutThough

Premiership Player
Oct 2, 2010
4,233
14,364
AFL Club
St Kilda
Agree that the selection of Joyce over Brown for GWS was baffling to say the least!
But i must say i don't really see Carlisle as our full back! Not this year or any year to be honest. For all of Jake's strengths, having him defend on the last line
Doesn't suit him! He's a bit too loose, plus trying to make him that accountable in a defence first role is wasting his talent in my opinion!

He's at his best as an attacking, intercept centre half back! With the odd run forward!
Does beggar the question though who our future Full back would be and Joyce is still a fair way off for all of his improvement!
Kernel's idea is not without merit though, the only way we can get him up to speed is to play him as much as possible to fastrack his development!
Difficult decision though whilst we are still contending for finals for a few weeks anyway, unless the bottom drops out and we are no chance!
The other options don't really look up to it. Austin way too loose from what we have seen so far, a bridge too far to expect Clavarino to be able to do it
In the next couple of years anyway.....Maybe Wilkie, he has exceeded our wildest expectations already and is versatile enough to be seen as a possible option!
Unless they are still planning on leaving Battle in defence to play Jake forward, which could work in short bursts, though for mine when everyone's fit
He goes forward as we are clearly lacking there and with his improvement, i'm excited to see how he goes doing what we drafted him for!

But then there's Winx who we no doubt see as our focal point! So to summarise i've rambled so much ****e i have now painted myself into a corner!!
For everyone's sanity i will stop now, plus i've given myself a headache!
Back to the Dungeon for me! Apologies all! :oops:
I agree Carlisle plays his best when he can roam around the defensive 50. But with us playing much more of a system defence, I think being able to rotate our defenders in different positions becomes a lot easier and we should become less reliant on having that one, big lock down defender. Carlisle, Marsh and Wikie dont seem too bad as a back three - maybe a tad short though. And that's with the idea of Battle plating forward alongside King and Membrey. Not sure what we do with Bruce in this scenario because he has done some good things this year.

And Brown is one of the few big, one on one defenders left going around since they are a bit of a dying breed. I think since we have him and he is really good at what he does, we can accomodate his type into our system because he is currently our best option but I don't think we need to go and seek someone in the same mould to replace him.

I dont like the idea of just giving games to players like Joyce just to see how they go when the season is still alive and when the guy playing his position is still doing a good job. He is continues to go a great job at VFL and Brown starts is struggling, then he should play in front of him, but we don't need to be gifting him games for no apparent reason.
 
Top Bottom