Autopsy Round 11, 2023: St.Kilda v Hawthorn
- Thread starter George
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I never said he shouldn't keep his spot. But I'm sorry, we get absolutely slammed out of the midfield every week.
I don't really think raw numbers mean that much when he knows how to accumulate the football - that's not the issue. And I agree he's been our best midfielder, but we need him to be at his best every week to even have a chance in the midfield.
Probably harsh but I still want to see more from our senior midfielders.
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Elite kicking to forwards compared to Gresh, Steele, Crouch& Ross who presume the forwards are standing about 20 metres off the ground
- Oct 2, 2010
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There is no situation or comparison where Brynes kicking could be described as elite.
PoppedCorn
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U said hes on notice
On notice for what?
The numbers are saying he is doing great and visually he is fine from what we can see
All his numbers look fine
We need the other mids to step up so crouch doesnt have to be at his very best every week
No one is at their very best every week.
Crouch is doing everything we need him too
dudeintheswamp
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Yep Crouch has been one of our best this year. Plenty of other things to whinge about before him I'd reckon.
Can we order the most commonly accused underperformers since our bad patch started.
Gresham
Ross
Battle
Howard
Sharman
Patton
Byrnes
Anyone in that list that shouldn't be, anyone else who should be?
- Moderator
- #834
Personally I wouldn’t have Battle in there.
Was bad against the Hawks but has been pretty reliable all year.
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- Jun 17, 2018
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It's unfortunate that it's happened to us twice.
I'd love be for us to be able to do it a bit more often.
Pretty good list. Probably harsh on Battle, he has done some good work and I think has only had 2 bad ones. Sharman and Patton are fringe players anyway, probably don't get a game if list is injury free. Really the three players who are a real concern are Gresham, Howard and Ross.
Gresham has to be the worst by foot in the AFL - especially as a small/mid. His disposal weakness sort of negates just about everything else he brings to the table. Ross I feel has gone a year too long, doesn't have the pace for the modern game. Howard is a real worry, seems to have lost all confidence and he is such an important part of our structure.
If this is an exploratory year then I think it is just emphasising what we have all been saying for 8 years - we need some line breaking pace and class in teh midfield and add to that another reliable key defender.
gringo2011
Premium Platinum
I'd say
Ross
Howard
Paton
Gresham
Byrnes
Battle and Sharman cop it from a couple of posters but both are generally well liked. Champion data reckons Battle is going better than our other two tall backs.
Don’t think Battle or Byrnes belong here. Battle has had some troubles but mostly when he’s forced to play on a much bigger opponent and I think Byrnes has been a revelation on the contrary.
Honestly I don’t think individual performances have been THAT bad Overall so much as in our woeful performances the lethargic attitude this group has struggled with has crept back in.
We also have a rather small midfield rotation and with Steele playing injured, Gresham and Ross being out of form leaving Crouch and a part time Sinclair fighting an uphill battle.
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I think only Ross, Gresham and Howard are underperforming. Battle had both good and bad moments the past month, but part of that has been poor match ups - why was he on Toby Greene to begin with?
Players like Byrnes/Paton/Sharman aren't underperforming as much as their level is just low and that's what we have been seeing.
L_W_P
@peteplatinum on Instagram
And the AFL might put the final nail in the coffin soon...
- Moderator
- #841
Que?
Big one missing from that is Steele. I love him and probably playing with injury, but he is well off from his best. I actually wonder if this is creating down stream effects on the other mids.
Wouldn't have Sharman in there - wouldn't be expecting that much more from him especially with the way we've been moving the ball. Hammer would be in the same boat as well.
Gresh Ross Steele would be the biggest impact for us - they should be up there with our best players and have fallen off a cliff. Howard is always prone to a few doozies but looks to have lost confidence and the way the ball is coming in is looking worse.
The only players currently at St Kilda with B&Fs to their name are Ross, Steele and Sinclair. If two of them are in poor form, it does not augur well for the form of the team. I thought Steele had turned a corner before the weekend, and Ross has been very quiet the last three weeks.
Serious consideration should be given to having a specific spot on the midfield rotation for Owens and Phillipou from next game with one of them inside at all times, resting in the forward line and on the bench (50/25/25 split).
Serious consideration should be given to having a specific spot on the midfield rotation for Owens and Phillipou from next game with one of them inside at all times, resting in the forward line and on the bench (50/25/25 split).
L_W_P
@peteplatinum on Instagram
Hawks will likely be sanctioned over the racial discrimination case.
Talk that the club will be stripped of draft picks ala Essendon (Drugs) and Carlton (Salary Cap)
Every chance the Hawks are bottoming out without a 1st RDP this year, and possibly next.
‘Reasonably expeditious manner’: AFL hints it could now charge Hawks for breaching league rules
Hawks could face fines, stripping of draft picks as AFL warns of possible fresh charge
www.foxsports.com.au
- Moderator
- #845
Wow...Hawks will likely be sanctioned over the racial discrimination case.
Talk that the club will be stripped of draft picks ala Essendon (Drugs) and Carlton (Salary Cap)
Every chance the Hawks are bottoming out without a 1st RDP this year, and possibly next.
‘Reasonably expeditious manner’: AFL hints it could now charge Hawks for breaching league rules
Hawks could face fines, stripping of draft picks as AFL warns of possible fresh charge
Given the finding of the report, which essentially exonerated the accused, and in the absence of definitive proof of who leaked the report i cant imagine the Hawks would just accept stripping draft picks.
Without wandering off, I thought the announcement last night was more an admission by the AFL they couldn't do anything with the processes they had set up, so were left with no choice than to abandon the investigation.
L_W_P
@peteplatinum on Instagram
My take on it is that the accusers don't want to follow through with sanctions against Clarkson, Fagan etc through the AFL or as individuals. They have reserved their legal rights to take the club, and therefore Clarkson and co, to court for compensation instead.
Lots of people thinking it's over. I rekon that's way off base.
I'd assume the AFL deal for a resolution included waiving any more public airing of the issues through the media or a court case.
Pure speculation but I think the AFL will hammer the Hawks, the same way they hammered Essendon, in the hope that when the court case plays out they can point to those sanctions and say "We've already punished the people involved". Any punishment for Clarkson and co will be purely financial through the courts. The AFL won't suspend them or pressure the clubs to move them out.
Boy's club and all that...
Lots of people thinking it's over. I rekon that's way off base.
I'd assume the AFL deal for a resolution included waiving any more public airing of the issues through the media or a court case.
Pure speculation but I think the AFL will hammer the Hawks, the same way they hammered Essendon, in the hope that when the court case plays out they can point to those sanctions and say "We've already punished the people involved". Any punishment for Clarkson and co will be purely financial through the courts. The AFL won't suspend them or pressure the clubs to move them out.
Boy's club and all that...
- Moderator
- #848
No I agree with this, I’m just not sure how you can justify sanctions if the investigation has been abandoned?
Surely you have to follow through on the entirety of the process as a minimum before you sanction a club and either they say they have and there’s nothing to see here or they haven’t and they can’t sanction?
Feels like a foot in each camp.
- Moderator
- #849
That makes sense from a process POV (* me im back here talking about process) it probably should be clear when these reviews begin that the clubs investagation doesn’t seek to pursue punishment or compensation but that those avenues are available to complainants shoukd they wish to pursue them.
It seems a huge issue with what the hawks did was not clarifying with the complainants or the afl what was going to occur.
Eg. We’re doing this investigation to better the club and the afl for all parties and if you wanna sue we’ll put you in touch with some great lawyers and they can have any of our records if you formally request them.
