Autopsy Round 11, 2024: Melbourne v St.Kilda

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Dude enough already, patronising? Your tone is clearly agenda filled and biased barely disguising the fact it's sounds personal with you.

If you dont accept that we severely over achieved last season then there is no helping you, pretty much every neutral pundit in the game understood it and was why we were widely tipped to slide this year and that was well before R1. Your getting hysterical dude.
Im not hysterical at all.

We "severely" overachieved.

Bullshit.

Youre saying full rebuild then, cool, strap in for 20 years, i think its a touch up.

I also have no agenda, ive said it over and over and over, i dont want Ross sacked, i just want some level of accountability for him.

Youre the one advocating for giving him 10 years to just **** about. That sounds much more agenda driven than having some acountability.
 
One cannot just look at last year's ladder position. You have to look at how other clubs are improving or declining.

Swans brought in Grundie and overall they now have an excellent list and age profile.


Essendon brought in a bunch of FAs and are a better team. I doubt flag worthy, but are better.


Hawks are better.


Lions are going bad, but overall there is more competition in the top half of the ladder.
Id suggest that last years ladder position is one metric we absolutely should consider in assessing what we do.

Its not the only metric but it seems idiotic to me to ignore it.

The common theme with the cult of Ross crew seems to be "ignore anything that perhaps shows Ross isnt the ****ing messiah".

Guys... Ross is a good coach, hes the right guy, hes who im backing but im not doing it blindly.

Thats all
 
Im not hysterical at all.

We "severely" overachieved.

Bullshit.

Youre saying full rebuild then, cool, strap in for 20 years, i think its a touch up.

I also have no agenda, ive said it over and over and over, i dont want Ross sacked, i just want some level of accountability for him.

Youre the one advocating for giving him 10 years to just **** about. That sounds much more agenda driven than having some acountability.

Clearly your emotional.

It might be time you consider having a spell...its meant to be entrainment after all and here you are on Wednesday doing yourself a mischief.

Don't let it consume you
 

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Clearly your emotional.

It might be time you consider having a spell...its meant to be entrainment after all and here you are on Wednesday doing yourself a mischief.

Don't let it consume you
Remember how I said don’t be patronizing.

I’m not at all emotional, I find it amusing that you’re so sure you know better than everyone else as some “nuetral pundit”.
 
Remember how I said don’t be patronizing.

I’m not at all emotional, I find it amusing that you’re so sure you know better than everyone else as some “nuetral pundit”.

So are you saying you aren't familiar with the widely accepted prediction before R1?

I was on the record of agreeing with the widely expressed opinion...do a search.

It was only the one eyed supporters who thought we would automatically rise above 6th and that every kid we recruited was going to be an automatic star...its these types that are the most upset now and clearly you thought we would improve on 6th hence why your emotional.
 
One cannot just look at last year's ladder position. You have to look at how other clubs are improving or declining.

Swans brought in Grundie and overall they now have an excellent list and age profile.


Essendon brought in a bunch of FAs and are a better team. I doubt flag worthy, but are better.


Hawks are better.


Lions are going bad, but overall there is more competition in the top half of the ladder.


Hawks are a side that develops well and a few amazing draft wins. Will Day was pick 13 in the same draft as Rowell, Anderson and Serong. He's low profile but equal to any of them for pure damage per touch. Newcombe looks a future Brownlow winner. Ward looks on track after an injury plagued start and they have a decent second tier. Meet their potential and they are half way there.

What Hawks also have a is very strict standards and expectations of success. They average a flag every seven years or something compared to our one in every 150.
 
Hawks are a side that develops well and a few amazing draft wins. Will Day was pick 13 in the same draft as Rowell, Anderson and Serong. He's low profile but equal to any of them for pure damage per touch. Newcombe looks a future Brownlow winner. Ward looks on track after an injury plagued start and they have a decent second tier. Meet their potential and they are half way there.

What Hawks also have a is very strict standards and expectations of success. They average a flag every seven years or something compared to our one in every 150.
If there was a glory hole for other teams....
 
Anyway I’m for the long haul but am glad Bassett is pissin a few off over academies etc it needs to be said …I’d add a comment or two on umpires as well ..think they’ve been abysmal this year (no not cause for losses) but with 4 …it’s gone backwards
All your post was thought provoking. The bit on the umpires made me think.

The reason for going to 4 we were given is that the game is so fast that they needed 4 to keep up and be in the best position. Well that throw in the first quarter last week shows the rationale was flawed. Not one saw a blatant throw that I saw from behind the goals in the Ponsford stand and my Melbourne supporter mate text me about at 1/4 time from the MCG Members. 2 Angles 100 metres apart.

Nope, I reckon that the AFL Umpires association used it as a mechanism to keep their older umpire mates in the game longer. If we have lost management and papering over cracks then the AFL umpires are in the same state. 4 umpires has led to a diabolic, shambolic, North Melbourne level. The media need to call it out as the game is suffering. I used to watch 6 games a week. I now struggle to watch ours at all.
 
Id suggest that last years ladder position is one metric we absolutely should consider in assessing what we do.

Its not the only metric but it seems idiotic to me to ignore it.

The common theme with the cult of Ross crew seems to be "ignore anything that perhaps shows Ross isnt the ****ing messiah".

Guys... Ross is a good coach, hes the right guy, hes who im backing but im not doing it blindly.

Thats all


Ladders mean **** all year to year. The whole system rewards sides that fall outside the 8 and different sides have up and down years. Only four or five clubs are usually well entrenched over multiple years.

I said after a few rounds that I thought we'd struggle to win more than 7 games or something. Where and when you meet sides makes a massive difference. We had a terrible fixture and once players went down before the season it was hard to see where we'd improve enough.

We've chosen to smash games into kids trying to get a good core set for a couple of years down the track. It makes us uneven and prone to lulls in confidence.

I'm kind of disgusted having to watch how awful we are playing but sort of impressed that we've stayed kind of competitive. Ratts had some absolute blow outs which he's stopped but it's a hard watch right now. To me it's some distatseful medicine that probably benefits us in the longer term.

I don't hate the way we're building but we need to make sure we don't get anything wrong from here. Get a few guns like Wilson who come on fast and to a high level will throw us forward with a jolt at some point. Playing mid table footy until guys like Steele and Marshall fall out the other side due to age was a real possibility 3 years ago.
 
So are you saying you aren't familiar with the widely accepted prediction before R1?

I was on the record of agreeing with the widely expressed opinion...do a search.

It was only the one eyed supporters who thought we would automatically rise above 6th and that every kid we recruited was going to be an automatic star...its these types that are the most upset now and clearly you thought we would improve on 6th hence why your emotional.
Where exactly did I say we would improve?

I literally just made a point that without injuries and playing to the lists strengths we could, at best, recreate a 6th (to 10th) finish. Here I’ll quote it for you seeing you have some issues with reading

If we had a better run with injuries and a gameplan to exploit our strengths we probably could have propped up around that 6-10 spot again and it would have been a sugar hit but if were going full rebuild, scrap the lot and start again, were absolutely ****ed.

That’s not improving.

Fact remains this list, just a year ago and with a handful of changes finished 6th. A few months ago beat the reigning premier.

Now there are certainly some factors that need to considered in both those things but they also both have some stuff that would indicate the entire team isn’t filled with shit kicking park footballers.

I’ll say it again for you.

Ross isn’t coaching well.

The players aren’t playing well.

The list isn’t great.

All things that can be improved without a full rebuild.

If it is a full rebuild then it’s not a 10 year plan, Tassie will mean it’s 20.

Only one of us being emotional here and it’s not the guy saying “it’s not that bad”.
 
Ladders mean **** all year to year. The whole system rewards sides that fall outside the 8 and different sides have up and down years. Only four or five clubs are usually well entrenched over multiple years.

I said after a few rounds that I thought we'd struggle to win more than 7 games or something. Where and when you meet sides makes a massive difference. We had a terrible fixture and once players went down before the season it was hard to see where we'd improve enough.

We've chosen to smash games into kids trying to get a good core set for a couple of years down the track. It makes us uneven and prone to lulls in confidence.

I'm kind of disgusted having to watch how awful we are playing but sort of impressed that we've stayed kind of competitive. Ratts had some absolute blow outs which he's stopped but it's a hard watch right now. To me it's some distatseful medicine that probably benefits us in the longer term.

I don't hate the way we're building but we need to make sure we don't get anything wrong from here. Get a few guns like Wilson who come on fast and to a high level will throw us forward with a jolt at some point. Playing mid table footy until guys like Steele and Marshall fall out the other side due to age was a real possibility 3 years ago.
If ladders didn’t matter year to year then we wouldn’t have have teams rising and falling. I love your takes but that’s just silly. Isn’t the stat that every year 6 of the top 8 stays the same?

You’ve said yourself that with injuries and a few others things we’d have remained mid table.

To be clear here, I’m fine with us falling back and I’m not shocked it happened. I have a serious issue with this shit brand of footy we’re playing but the discussion here is really about if this is a full rebuild or a touch up and the fact is that decision would be made based on a bunch of stuff.

Recent performance, list profile, gameplan and players and probably 25 other things.

The bones of the list are okay. Battle, Wilkie, Sincs, Nas, Windy, King, Pou, Wilson, Roma are what you would build off, so by definition it’s not a complete rebuild.

If it is then we’re properly ****ed and will be staring down 80 years without a flag.
 

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Where exactly did I say we would improve?

I literally just made a point that without injuries and playing to the lists strengths we could, at best, recreate a 6th (to 10th) finish. Here I’ll quote it for you seeing you have some issues with reading



That’s not improving.

Fact remains this list, just a year ago and with a handful of changes finished 6th. A few months ago beat the reigning premier.

Now there are certainly some factors that need to considered in both those things but they also both have some stuff that would indicate the entire team isn’t filled with shit kicking park footballers.

I’ll say it again for you.

Ross isn’t coaching well.

The players aren’t playing well.

The list isn’t great.

All things that can be improved without a full rebuild.

If it is a full rebuild then it’s not a 10 year plan, Tassie will mean it’s 20.

Only one of us being emotional here and it’s not the guy saying “it’s not that bad”.
You're in a loop and too emotional, you need a rest, I said if you can't agree with the widely accepted view we overrachied last season then there's no helping you. You are anchored to a flawed opinion, you just are too emotional to see it.
 
You're in a loop and too emotional, you need a rest, I said if you can't agree with the widely accepted view we overrachied last season then there's no helping you. You are anchored to a flawed opinion, you just are too emotional to see it.
Not sure what overrachied means, probably too emotional typing.

Take a breath mate, it’ll be okay.
 
If ladders didn’t matter year to year then we wouldn’t have have teams rising and falling. I love your takes but that’s just silly. Isn’t the stat that every year 6 of the top 8 stays the same?

You’ve said yourself that with injuries and a few others things we’d have remained mid table.

To be clear here, I’m fine with us falling back and I’m not shocked it happened. I have a serious issue with this shit brand of footy we’re playing but the discussion here is really about if this is a full rebuild or a touch up and the fact is that decision would be made based on a bunch of stuff.

Recent performance, list profile, gameplan and players and probably 25 other things.

The bones of the list are okay. Battle, Wilkie, Sincs, Nas, Windy, King, Pou, Wilson, Roma are what you would build off, so by definition it’s not a complete rebuild.

If it is then we’re properly ****ed and will be staring down 80 years without a flag.


I mean it means **** all because sides do improve, sides down the bottom for multiple years should at some point soar. Sides up the top with injury and tough fixtures tumble out.

Expecting to use your last year's ladder as a guide is stupid IMO. Plugger66 used to seem to think that a ladder was static year to year. Essendon improved a lot and jumped this year. Collingwood have been good but about to be tested by injury as have the Blues.

You can improve 25% on the previous year and finish 4 positions lower on the ladder. People seem surprised every year when a few plummet and a few rise even though it's happened every year for 150 years.

We had a harder fixture, injury to the players that we had minimal depth in and continued on a heavy youth policy. That should be a sign of sticking to plan IMO. The easy way out is to stack the side with the most experienced players possible and snatch a few cheap wins. That's what we did under Richo and less so Ratts.
 
If ladders didn’t matter year to year then we wouldn’t have have teams rising and falling. I love your takes but that’s just silly. Isn’t the stat that every year 6 of the top 8 stays the same?

You’ve said yourself that with injuries and a few others things we’d have remained mid table.

To be clear here, I’m fine with us falling back and I’m not shocked it happened. I have a serious issue with this shit brand of footy we’re playing but the discussion here is really about if this is a full rebuild or a touch up and the fact is that decision would be made based on a bunch of stuff.

Recent performance, list profile, gameplan and players and probably 25 other things.

The bones of the list are okay. Battle, Wilkie, Sincs, Nas, Windy, King, Pou, Wilson, Roma are what you would build off, so by definition it’s not a complete rebuild.

If it is then we’re properly ****ed and will be staring down 80 years without a flag.


Our game style is probably the worst footy I've ever watched. It doesn't concern me for the kids development though. Being forged through strong defence doesn't kill their careers. It irons out wrinkles. The bottom aren't as shit but the peaks aren't as high. Geelong and Pies won flags after being too negative. Might be that the current coach can flip out of it though. Perhaps a new set of assistants is the better plan. Find a few attacking line coaches in the off season. Maybe someone from the Dogs or a system that encourages free flowing pretty footy.
 
I mean it means **** all because sides do improve, sides down the bottom for multiple years should at some point soar. Sides up the top with injury and tough fixtures tumble out.

Expecting to use your last year's ladder as a guide is stupid IMO. Plugger66 used to seem to think that a ladder was static year to year. Essendon improved a lot and jumped this year. Collingwood have been good but about to be tested by injury as have the Blues.

You can improve 25% on the previous year and finish 4 positions lower on the ladder. People seem surprised every year when a few plummet and a few rise even though it's happened every year for 150 years.

We had a harder fixture, injury to the players that we had minimal depth in and continued on a heavy youth policy. That should be a sign of sticking to plan IMO. The easy way out is to stack the side with the most experienced players possible and snatch a few cheap wins. That's what we did under Richo and less so Ratts.
Yeh I’d read what I wrote again, I said the ladder is a metric, it’s not THE metric, it’s not the only metric but it’s a metric.

Lists change what, 10-15% so your ladder position as an assessment of the performance of the team isn’t a bad starting point to assess what you need.

If you just ignore it the historical data it provides as PART of your end of year assessment then I’d suggest you’ve lost your mind.
 
Not sure what overrachied means, probably too emotional typing.

Take a breath mate, it’ll be okay.
Ya losing it brother if that's what you've reduced yourself too.

It's just a game and meant for entertainment...try and remember that...and it's Wednesday and you are as serious as heart attack.

Relax
 
Yeh I’d read what I wrote again, I said the ladder is a metric, it’s not THE metric, it’s not the only metric but it’s a metric.

Lists change what, 10-15% so your ladder position as an assessment of the performance of the team isn’t a bad starting point to assess what you need.

If you just ignore it the historical data it provides as PART of your end of year assessment then I’d suggest you’ve lost your mind.


A younger side should get improvement internally. Injured players returning etc. It's a metric but there are so many variables. The 5 or 6 sides in the premiership window every year tend to be quite stable but the rest are all over the shop.
 
Ya losing it brother if that's what you've reduced yourself too.

It's just a game and meant for entertainment...try and remember that...and it's Wednesday and you are as serious as heart attack.

Relax
At no point have I done anything other than have a convo about how it’s not as bad as a full rebuild and you’ve actually just continually replied to me saying I’m emotional and not commented on anything I’ve said.

Real odd tbh but your inane stupid replies actually are now pissing me off
 
A younger side should get improvement internally. Injured players returning etc. It's a metric but there are so many variables. The 5 or 6 sides in the premiership window every year tend to be quite stable but the rest are all over the shop.
So just completely rite off that data? Do your assessment and planning on a vacuum of a years worth of results?

Nah, I can assure you that’s not what happens.
 
At no point have I done anything other than have a convo about how it’s not as bad as a full rebuild and you’ve actually just continually replied to me saying I’m emotional and not commented on anything I’ve said.

Real odd tbh but your inane stupid replies actually are now pissing me off
Its what happens when you get yourself all worked up and don't want to consider other people's POVs and then get all abusive. As I said I can't help you if you aren't willing to acknowledge widely accepted views. Lyon was given a mandate to rebuild and here we are. Clearly you dont accept it and are wound up about it and letting it get to you.
 
Its what happens when you get yourself all worked up and don't want to consider other people's POVs and then get all abusive. As I said I can't help you if you aren't willing to acknowledge widely accepted views. Lyon was given a mandate to rebuild and here we are. Clearly you dont accept it and are wound up about it and letting it get to you.
Except that I did accept it and pointed that out a few times.

You know if you weren’t so emotional and patronizing you’d probably see that.

I’m done with you. Carry on if you wish.
 

Autopsy Round 11, 2024: Melbourne v St.Kilda

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