Review Round 12, 2019 - Carlton vs. Brisbane Lions

Who were your five best players against Carlton?


  • Total voters
    107
  • Poll closed .

martinson

All Australian
Apr 4, 2015
736
909
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
"They outhunted us, really," Fagan said.
"Structurally, we tried different things to get us back in the game. We were sitting on Cripps until we thought, 'It's not helping us, we better just hunt ourselves' but it's a combination of all those things.

"They were more desperate than what we were. Our midfield has been fantastic for us this year, but today they lowered their colours."

https://www.lions.com.au/news/2019-06-08/fagan-they-were-more-desperate-than-what-we-were

Basically we didn’t have anyone who could do a decent enough job. We had Lyons on him but he was hopeless.
Lyons has been hopeless at tagging any time anyone's tried him at it . Mitch was the man.

It really looks like a big coaching blunder to not tag Cripps seriously with one of the Robbos and yet let Neale get completely blocked out of the game everytime he went near it and not have someone help him out or protect him. Copped the double whammy.

Maybe as Fages suggested our guys were just out of gas and couldn't go with Cripps . But I found it fairly galling to see him run around doing what he liked ,taking grabs inside 50 , in the last 40 minutes with no one within cooee of him . We were virtually screaming out to pick him up.

A bit of a whisper at the celebration night that some of the guys were a bit sore . Harris ,Mitch ,Zorks obviously and one or two others.

On the face of it we looked outcoached in a basic way but maybe Fages tried and our guys just weren't up to it.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Paul Mac

Senior List
Jun 5, 2016
259
493
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
I would contact the ground and they may organise a wheel chair. I had a friend that was in a wheel chair for awhile and Marvel Stadium was simply marvellous.
Cheers. She enjoys sitting in the mix with cheersquad area for the atmosphere. She likes sitting around our own supporters re bad experience we had at the Gabba this year with a collingwood supporter directly behind us in next row. ( Surprise, surprise):thumbsu:
 

dlanod

Moderator
Sep 14, 2006
39,953
49,890
Sydney
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
GWS; CCMariners; NQCowboys; Ravens
Ok, so back at work today after the long weekend and about five colleagues asked exactly the same question, “Why didn’t you guys put a tag on Cripps?” Didn’t know how to respond. Are we any closer to knowing the answer?
Showing Carlton that we can even tank better than them.
 

Lazza16

Club Legend
Jul 7, 2017
1,952
1,489
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Lyons has been hopeless at tagging any time anyone's tried him at it . Mitch was the man.

It really looks like a big coaching blunder to not tag Cripps seriously with one of the Robbos and yet let Neale get completely blocked out of the game everytime he went near it and not have someone help him out or protect him. Copped the double whammy.

Maybe as Fages suggested our guys were just out of gas and couldn't go with Cripps . But I found it fairly galling to see him run around doing what he liked ,taking grabs inside 50 , in the last 40 minutes with no one within cooee of him . We were virtually screaming out to pick him up.

A bit of a whisper at the celebration night that some of the guys were a bit sore . Harris ,Mitch ,Zorks obviously and one or two others.

On the face of it we looked outcoached in a basic way but maybe Fages tried and our guys just weren't up to it.
Harris n Zorks could hardly move 2nd half........carrying injuries.......Zorks tenacious for fighting on.....showed we need more pace n strength on the ball.....hope Ely n big Berry n Fadyen? can eventually provide the strength and Bailey n Little Berry n Joyce can be zippy with Madden n Coleman coming on in defence.
 

martinson

All Australian
Apr 4, 2015
736
909
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Not really trying a hard tag on Cripps , without knowing what the plan actually was , seemed a big mistake.

But what a strange performance from us . If McCarthy gets paid the mark he took we conceivably can get within 3 points and anything can happen then. After being overwhelmingly outplayed most of the day.

So in one way I reckon that was our worst performance and it was still good enough to almost pinch it . Too many questions that raises. How good are Carlton really ?

At least we know we can improve a lot on that. One of the problems we now have is that the opposition will figure if you put Neale out of the game it sinks us . That's not entirely true but we need a plan to help him out when he gets a hard tag . Carlton found out the week before against Essendon what having a successful hard tag on a gun means to your chances
 

martinson

All Australian
Apr 4, 2015
736
909
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Harris n Zorks could hardly move 2nd half........carrying injuries.......Zorks tenacious for fighting on.....showed we need more pace n strength on the ball.....hope Ely n big Berry n Fadyen? can eventually provide the strength and Bailey n Little Berry n Joyce can be zippy with Madden n Coleman coming on in defence.
We could also do with another Lazza who knew how to sneak goals because people underestimated him.
 

bungalow_bill

Norm Smith Medallist
Dec 11, 2010
5,083
4,535
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
As martinson posted above the guys looked sore and tired, unfortunately the bye came one week too late for us.
Thought it would catch up with the guys in the second half of the Hawks game. Seemed okay then but finally ran out of puff V Blues. Looking forward to the next game to show them who's the boss of the rebuilding teams
 

davemc_lions

Club Legend
Aug 21, 2013
1,075
779
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
chatting at work as you do :) Honestly who here had us top 4 this year.
I might go on about we seem no plan B.
Maybe that is the plan.. We play our way all year until the players can do it 100% of the game.
We all dreamed finals. Although honestly this year we all saw as a development year hopefully 8-11 wins..
Find out who out of our list we still have 16 OOC players and signed up 11 players. Get another big name for 2020 or two
And push top 8 in 2020..
Just happens we probably sneak into finals this year.
 

lions27

Club Legend
May 13, 2013
2,364
2,119
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Does any one here actually know that Nick gets a role on a specific player most weeks he plays?? Or does everyone just shoot from the hip with emotion and irrational BS. I’m my own worst enemy here for reading this I guess but I actually enjoy the chat. I’ve refrained from commenting for a while because to be honest anyone would sometimes think we were sitting bottom of the ladder the way some react here.
The abitrary calls for Nick delisting and getting dropped every week is just ridiculous (and many other players)
First game this year he played 3 quarters on Fantasia and kept him scoreless. He got his 2 goals during Nicks compulsory rotation. Asked to go to Wulla for the last quarter and the guy had already kicked 5 (on who I might add) and some drongos on here suggested he had 7 kicked on him??? “Nicks ****, should never play for the Lions again” or words to the affect.
Against Collingwood I thought he played a really good game that day.
Hawthorne kept Breust to one goal (yes from his error) and today McGovern one goal and no influence.
He could run and chase kicks but he doesn’t. He plays his role. Some on here need understand how this works sometimes rather than sacrificing your own players to appease your own frustrations.
You think these guys won’t be pissed!!! Ashamed!!! Far out some have no idea.
Deluded if you really thought this was a premiership year. Absolute leaps and bounds this season but today reminds everybody how much work is left to do.
You can either bag the **** out of your own players that when they win you “love” them when they lose you tear them apart or stick fat. Constructive criticism of the game is fine and always a good read. Lately it gotten worse than that.
Nothing wrong with passion and there are many here that have supported the Lions for many more years than myself. Still 6 years and a playing Son that gets ripped to the ****house on his on teams “supporters forum” probably allows me to stand up a voice my disappointment.
There are many many realists with composed commentary on this forum and its those I really enjoy reading.
Yeah mate I’m a massive fan of N.Robbo, there is a reason why he was top ten last year in the club champion voting. Don’t let the haters get to you, every club has whipping boys and it’s normally people that haven’t played the game that are shooting from the hip with no idea.
Thanks for sticking around as the majority of us love having you and Nick on board.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

LongLion

Club Legend
Jan 13, 2016
1,296
1,957
Brisbane
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Does any one here actually know that Nick gets a role on a specific player most weeks he plays?? Or does everyone just shoot from the hip with emotion and irrational BS. I’m my own worst enemy here for reading this I guess but I actually enjoy the chat. I’ve refrained from commenting for a while because to be honest anyone would sometimes think we were sitting bottom of the ladder the way some react here.
The abitrary calls for Nick delisting and getting dropped every week is just ridiculous (and many other players)
First game this year he played 3 quarters on Fantasia and kept him scoreless. He got his 2 goals during Nicks compulsory rotation. Asked to go to Wulla for the last quarter and the guy had already kicked 5 (on who I might add) and some drongos on here suggested he had 7 kicked on him??? “Nicks ****, should never play for the Lions again” or words to the affect.
Against Collingwood I thought he played a really good game that day.
Hawthorne kept Breust to one goal (yes from his error) and today McGovern one goal and no influence.
He could run and chase kicks but he doesn’t. He plays his role. Some on here need understand how this works sometimes rather than sacrificing your own players to appease your own frustrations.
You think these guys won’t be pissed!!! Ashamed!!! Far out some have no idea.
Deluded if you really thought this was a premiership year. Absolute leaps and bounds this season but today reminds everybody how much work is left to do.
You can either bag the **** out of your own players that when they win you “love” them when they lose you tear them apart or stick fat. Constructive criticism of the game is fine and always a good read. Lately it gotten worse than that.
Nothing wrong with passion and there are many here that have supported the Lions for many more years than myself. Still 6 years and a playing Son that gets ripped to the ****house on his on teams “supporters forum” probably allows me to stand up a voice my disappointment.
There are many many realists with composed commentary on this forum and its those I really enjoy reading.
Our 3 peat flags were won off the back of a TEAM with everybody knowing & playing their roles. The emotional dribble that pours out of some posters after a loss amazes me & then I get shouted down by them when I suggest they have have had a melt & they should cool their jets a bit. Stick with us Robbo18. I for one find your input most valuable in getting some small insight into the real machinations in making our club great again.
 

spotthedog1

Club Legend
Nov 13, 2011
2,027
2,834
Brisbane
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
A few days and a (bit of a) replay (couldn't watch all of it) on, and my thoughts aren't necessarily better.

Fages' weaknesses came out in this one. Excellent leader of leaders. Not great tactically. Which is fine, because he empowers his other coaches to take ownership of tactical things. That's why Fages, our Communicator-in-Chief, sits boundary side, and Daly sits in the box. This week though, he got outgunned in the mid-game.

Really a bit annoying that Fages tried Lyons on Cripps, and a few other little things, and according to his AFL360 interview, decided mid-way through the 3rd to abandon it. Two issues:
- Cripps was having decent, but not amazing impact, in the late 2nd-early 3rd. Tagging was better than nothing. From part-way through the 3rd through the 4th quarter, he was absolutely destructive. Letting him off the leash was even worse, and I've no idea why, at 3QT, we didn't sit down and say "nup, that's even worse, let's go back to tagging him". The entire 4th quarter he ran free.
- As Paul Roos pointed out on the couch, Lyons isn't renowned as a tagger. You've got someone like Mitch Robbo on the team, who can match him for physicality, and you send Jarryd Lyons to him? What was the point of that?

Season still in good shape. But we just lack a bit of mental awareness.
 

jackess

Hall of Famer
Aug 10, 2005
34,792
27,888
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
A few days and a (bit of a) replay (couldn't watch all of it) on, and my thoughts aren't necessarily better.

Fages' weaknesses came out in this one. Excellent leader of leaders. Not great tactically. Which is fine, because he empowers his other coaches to take ownership of tactical things. That's why Fages, our Communicator-in-Chief, sits boundary side, and Daly sits in the box. This week though, he got outgunned in the mid-game.

Really a bit annoying that Fages tried Lyons on Cripps, and a few other little things, and according to his AFL360 interview, decided mid-way through the 3rd to abandon it. Two issues:
- Cripps was having decent, but not amazing impact, in the late 2nd-early 3rd. Tagging was better than nothing. From part-way through the 3rd through the 4th quarter, he was absolutely destructive. Letting him off the leash was even worse, and I've no idea why, at 3QT, we didn't sit down and say "nup, that's even worse, let's go back to tagging him". The entire 4th quarter he ran free.
- As Paul Roos pointed out on the couch, Lyons isn't renowned as a tagger. You've got someone like Mitch Robbo on the team, who can match him for physicality, and you send Jarryd Lyons to him? What was the point of that?

Season still in good shape. But we just lack a bit of mental awareness.
Maybe there was a good reason not to send Robbo to Cripps
 

davemc_lions

Club Legend
Aug 21, 2013
1,075
779
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
an offensive tagger probably be on our list to acquire. We get a few of them go on Neale like the blues did on the weekend. Get there own ball keep Neale quite as well.
 

dlanod

Moderator
Sep 14, 2006
39,953
49,890
Sydney
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
GWS; CCMariners; NQCowboys; Ravens
- As Paul Roos pointed out on the couch, Lyons isn't renowned as a tagger. You've got someone like Mitch Robbo on the team, who can match him for physicality, and you send Jarryd Lyons to him? What was the point of that?
I'm reasonably sure they valued keeping their #1 midfield team together at centre bounces over applying a hard tag. Robinson almost universally lines up on a wing looking at Billy Bob65 's data from previous games this year. I can't say I necessarily agree with that logic, and it also doesn't address the game outside of centre bounces, but it does line up with Fagan's comment about switching to focus on just winning the ball (which didn't work).
 

spotthedog1

Club Legend
Nov 13, 2011
2,027
2,834
Brisbane
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
I'm reasonably sure they valued keeping their #1 midfield team together at centre bounces over applying a hard tag. Robinson almost universally lines up on a wing looking at Billy Bob65 's data from previous games this year. I can't say I necessarily agree with that logic, and it also doesn't address the game outside of centre bounces, but it does line up with Fagan's comment about switching to focus on just winning the ball (which didn't work).
That would make sense as an explanation as to why they did certain things.

Just very frustrating though, as it doesn't explain why, when it was obvious that those things were failing miserably, they didn't change them.

I was just surprised when I heard Fages say that it was midway through the 3rd that they took the tag off Cripps. You can't always tell when strategies get implemented, and while it was clear he was running clear for most of the second half, I assumed he'd just beaten his man, as opposed to not having a man. Midway through the third is when he really, really got off the chain. I just don't know how that wasn't analysed at 3QT, and again mid-way through the fourth, when the game was still up for grabs and a decision made that Crippa running free was obviously not helping.

Ah well - this is just a different frustrating part of the rebuild. The team have the skills, and we have the expectations, but they just don't have the mental fortitude to show up to every game, or not to relax when you are up against an easier opponent. Still, it beats getting beaten by 10 goals a game. I'll take a fortnight of having just lost to Carlton over being a fan of Carlton any day of the week.
 

bungalow_bill

Norm Smith Medallist
Dec 11, 2010
5,083
4,535
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
an offensive tagger probably be on our list to acquire. We get a few of them go on Neale like the blues did on the weekend. Get there own ball keep Neale quite as well.
If Berry were fit would have been the perfect go with Cripps player.

We have a great recent record V Blues - who if anyone tagged Cripps previously?
 

martinson

All Australian
Apr 4, 2015
736
909
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
If Berry were fit would have been the perfect go with Cripps player.

We have a great recent record V Blues - who if anyone tagged Cripps previously?
I don't have the answer to that but Cripps has improved into something special this year . Also with Walsh they have the nucleus right there to start building a team. I don't think Cripps will be without a tag the rest of the year.

I think from Fages self admission it was a mistake to let him off the chain . Well that was obvious. But the combination of us not winning the ball and maybe having a few sore players inclined us to try something that didn't work .It happens.

The 3 big factors in the game from a player perspective were us letting Cripps run rampant , Zorks getting injured because he was carving them up and giving us some run ,and them tagging Neale out of the game because he was carving them up as well.

So seeing those factors all went against us it was half a miracle to be right in it to near the end
 

jason pm

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 31, 2015
15,722
28,647
Omnipresent.
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
Fortitude Valley Diehards. Chelsea.
I don't have the answer to that but Cripps has improved into something special this year . Also with Walsh they have the nucleus right there to start building a team. I don't think Cripps will be without a tag the rest of the year.

I think from Fages self admission it was a mistake to let him off the chain . Well that was obvious. But the combination of us not winning the ball and maybe having a few sore players inclined us to try something that didn't work .It happens.

The 3 big factors in the game from a player perspective were us letting Cripps run rampant , Zorks getting injured because he was carving them up and giving us some run ,and them tagging Neale out of the game because he was carving them up as well.

So seeing those factors all went against us it was half a miracle to be right in it to near the end
Yep they look like they'll be a special combination, I do see our Hugh McCluggage, Jarrod Berry combination looking just as good if not better long term, throw in Lachie Neale (still 5 years or so left) and hopefully Cam Rayner improves his endurance base enough to spend his time 60/40 mid/fwd and we will have an elite gun quartet midfield setup.
 

F_therest

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 3, 2013
11,914
19,463
AFL Club
Carlton
Yeah mate I’m a massive fan of N.Robbo, there is a reason why he was top ten last year in the club champion voting. Don’t let the haters get to you, every club has whipping boys and it’s normally people that haven’t played the game that are shooting from the hip with no idea.
Thanks for sticking around as the majority of us love having you and Nick on board.
I don't watch your games that often but can't understand the criticism he's received from this game.

True i don't recall seeing anything outstanding from him, but he had a solid game to me. Don't remember any bad errors.
Seemed to stick to McGovern who wasn't in the play all that much, just the one shot on goal.
 

F_therest

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 3, 2013
11,914
19,463
AFL Club
Carlton
Lyons has been hopeless at tagging any time anyone's tried him at it . Mitch was the man.

It really looks like a big coaching blunder to not tag Cripps seriously with one of the Robbos and yet let Neale get completely blocked out of the game everytime he went near it and not have someone help him out or protect him. Copped the double whammy.

Maybe as Fages suggested our guys were just out of gas and couldn't go with Cripps . But I found it fairly galling to see him run around doing what he liked ,taking grabs inside 50 , in the last 40 minutes with no one within cooee of him . We were virtually screaming out to pick him up.

A bit of a whisper at the celebration night that some of the guys were a bit sore . Harris ,Mitch ,Zorks obviously and one or two others.

On the face of it we looked outcoached in a basic way but maybe Fages tried and our guys just weren't up to it.
Cripps has been successfully tagged in the last few weeks by Steele, Clarke and De Boer.
Though tbh our whole team was down in those games and Cripps clearly had the coaching drama with Bolton on his mind...no way a second gamer like Clarke could stop Cripps if he was in the right mindset.

Fagan said he did try a few tags but when it didn't work, they just decided to go head to head.

But watching the game a few times, i didn't really see a hard tag at all...the likes of Lyons or Mathieson sometimes stood next to him at a stoppage, but they didn't really put much body work into him and stick to him...once the ball was in play they just ran their own way. So i think Fagan did make a blunder there.

Compare to Ed Curnow who stuck to Neale like glue and got under his skin, taking him out of the game really. Neale was absolutely carving us up in the first half and set up your goal at the start of the 3rd.
 

martinson

All Australian
Apr 4, 2015
736
909
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Cripps has been successfully tagged in the last few weeks by Steele, Clarke and De Boer.
Though tbh our whole team was down in those games and Cripps clearly had the coaching drama with Bolton on his mind...no way a second gamer like Clarke could stop Cripps if he was in the right mindset.

Fagan said he did try a few tags but when it didn't work, they just decided to go head to head.

But watching the game a few times, i didn't really see a hard tag at all...the likes of Lyons or Mathieson sometimes stood next to him at a stoppage, but they didn't really put much body work into him and stick to him...once the ball was in play they just ran their own way. So i think Fagan did make a blunder there.

Compare to Ed Curnow who stuck to Neale like glue and got under his skin, taking him out of the game really. Neale was absolutely carving us up in the first half and set up your goal at the start of the 3rd.
Maybe we looked at the vision of Cripps the previous week and underestimated what a threat he could be.

Doesn't matter now but he was on his own for the second half and I don't think we'll make that mistake again
 

Ceebee

Norm Smith Medallist
Mar 27, 2006
8,002
6,047
Bribie Island
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
Aussie Cricket Team
Harris n Zorks could hardly move 2nd half........carrying injuries.......Zorks tenacious for fighting on.....showed we need more pace n strength on the ball.....hope Ely n big Berry n Fadyen? can eventually provide the strength and Bailey n Little Berry n Joyce can be zippy with Madden n Coleman coming on in defence.
Hugh was carrying an injury too,probably they were all pretty sore .
 
Top Bottom