Review Round 12, 2019 - Carlton vs. Brisbane Lions

[OldLion]

We did beat North Melbourne this year at Docklands.

Indeed .. is that it then ?

 

[jackess]

Ok, so back at work today after the long weekend and about five colleagues asked exactly the same question, “Why didn’t you guys put a tag on Cripps?” Didn’t know how to respond. Are we any closer to knowing the answer?

"They outhunted us, really," Fagan said.
"Structurally, we tried different things to get us back in the game. We were sitting on Cripps until we thought, 'It's not helping us, we better just hunt ourselves' but it's a combination of all those things.
"They were more desperate than what we were. Our midfield has been fantastic for us this year, but today they lowered their colours."

https://www.lions.com.au/news/2019-06-08/fagan-they-were-more-desperate-than-what-we-were

Basically we didn’t have anyone who could do a decent enough job. We had Lyons on him but he was hopeless.

 

[DERRINALPHIL]

Hey 3KZ. We use to but our mum getting bit old and not as stable on her feet nowadays so rather ramping it or using lift to level 3 just easier to sit on bottom level with our General admission membership

I would contact the ground and they may organise a wheel chair. I had a friend that was in a wheel chair for awhile and Marvel Stadium was simply marvellous.

 

[martinson]

"They outhunted us, really," Fagan said.
"Structurally, we tried different things to get us back in the game. We were sitting on Cripps until we thought, 'It's not helping us, we better just hunt ourselves' but it's a combination of all those things.
"They were more desperate than what we were. Our midfield has been fantastic for us this year, but today they lowered their colours."

https://www.lions.com.au/news/2019-06-08/fagan-they-were-more-desperate-than-what-we-were

Basically we didn’t have anyone who could do a decent enough job. We had Lyons on him but he was hopeless.

Lyons has been hopeless at tagging any time anyone's tried him at it . Mitch was the man.

It really looks like a big coaching blunder to not tag Cripps seriously with one of the Robbos and yet let Neale get completely blocked out of the game everytime he went near it and not have someone help him out or protect him. Copped the double whammy.

Maybe as Fages suggested our guys were just out of gas and couldn't go with Cripps . But I found it fairly galling to see him run around doing what he liked ,taking grabs inside 50 , in the last 40 minutes with no one within cooee of him . We were virtually screaming out to pick him up.

A bit of a whisper at the celebration night that some of the guys were a bit sore . Harris ,Mitch ,Zorks obviously and one or two others.

On the face of it we looked outcoached in a basic way but maybe Fages tried and our guys just weren't up to it.

 

[Paul Mac]

I would contact the ground and they may organise a wheel chair. I had a friend that was in a wheel chair for awhile and Marvel Stadium was simply marvellous.

Cheers. She enjoys sitting in the mix with cheersquad area for the atmosphere. She likes sitting around our own supporters re bad experience we had at the Gabba this year with a collingwood supporter directly behind us in next row. ( Surprise, surprise)

 

[dlanod]

Ok, so back at work today after the long weekend and about five colleagues asked exactly the same question, “Why didn’t you guys put a tag on Cripps?” Didn’t know how to respond. Are we any closer to knowing the answer?

Showing Carlton that we can even tank better than them.

 

[Gadzorks]

Showing Carlton that we can even tank better than them.

So we actually won. I love that logic.

 

[Lazza16]

Lyons has been hopeless at tagging any time anyone's tried him at it . Mitch was the man.

It really looks like a big coaching blunder to not tag Cripps seriously with one of the Robbos and yet let Neale get completely blocked out of the game everytime he went near it and not have someone help him out or protect him. Copped the double whammy.

Maybe as Fages suggested our guys were just out of gas and couldn't go with Cripps . But I found it fairly galling to see him run around doing what he liked ,taking grabs inside 50 , in the last 40 minutes with no one within cooee of him . We were virtually screaming out to pick him up.

A bit of a whisper at the celebration night that some of the guys were a bit sore . Harris ,Mitch ,Zorks obviously and one or two others.

On the face of it we looked outcoached in a basic way but maybe Fages tried and our guys just weren't up to it.

Harris n Zorks could hardly move 2nd half........carrying injuries.......Zorks tenacious for fighting on.....showed we need more pace n strength on the ball.....hope Ely n big Berry n Fadyen? can eventually provide the strength and Bailey n Little Berry n Joyce can be zippy with Madden n Coleman coming on in defence.

 

[M Malice]

As martinson posted above the guys looked sore and tired, unfortunately the bye came one week too late for us.

 

[martinson]

Not really trying a hard tag on Cripps , without knowing what the plan actually was , seemed a big mistake.

But what a strange performance from us . If McCarthy gets paid the mark he took we conceivably can get within 3 points and anything can happen then. After being overwhelmingly outplayed most of the day.

So in one way I reckon that was our worst performance and it was still good enough to almost pinch it . Too many questions that raises. How good are Carlton really ?

At least we know we can improve a lot on that. One of the problems we now have is that the opposition will figure if you put Neale out of the game it sinks us . That's not entirely true but we need a plan to help him out when he gets a hard tag . Carlton found out the week before against Essendon what having a successful hard tag on a gun means to your chances

 

[martinson]

Harris n Zorks could hardly move 2nd half........carrying injuries.......Zorks tenacious for fighting on.....showed we need more pace n strength on the ball.....hope Ely n big Berry n Fadyen? can eventually provide the strength and Bailey n Little Berry n Joyce can be zippy with Madden n Coleman coming on in defence.

We could also do with another Lazza who knew how to sneak goals because people underestimated him.

 

[bungalow_bill]

As martinson posted above the guys looked sore and tired, unfortunately the bye came one week too late for us.

Thought it would catch up with the guys in the second half of the Hawks game. Seemed okay then but finally ran out of puff V Blues. Looking forward to the next game to show them who's the boss of the rebuilding teams

 

[davemc_lions]

chatting at work as you do Honestly who here had us top 4 this year.
I might go on about we seem no plan B.
Maybe that is the plan.. We play our way all year until the players can do it 100% of the game.
We all dreamed finals. Although honestly this year we all saw as a development year hopefully 8-11 wins..
Find out who out of our list we still have 16 OOC players and signed up 11 players. Get another big name for 2020 or two
And push top 8 in 2020..
Just happens we probably sneak into finals this year.

 

[lions27]

Does any one here actually know that Nick gets a role on a specific player most weeks he plays?? Or does everyone just shoot from the hip with emotion and irrational BS. I’m my own worst enemy here for reading this I guess but I actually enjoy the chat. I’ve refrained from commenting for a while because to be honest anyone would sometimes think we were sitting bottom of the ladder the way some react here.
The abitrary calls for Nick delisting and getting dropped every week is just ridiculous (and many other players)
First game this year he played 3 quarters on Fantasia and kept him scoreless. He got his 2 goals during Nicks compulsory rotation. Asked to go to Wulla for the last quarter and the guy had already kicked 5 (on who I might add) and some drongos on here suggested he had 7 kicked on him??? “Nicks ****, should never play for the Lions again” or words to the affect.
Against Collingwood I thought he played a really good game that day.
Hawthorne kept Breust to one goal (yes from his error) and today McGovern one goal and no influence.
He could run and chase kicks but he doesn’t. He plays his role. Some on here need understand how this works sometimes rather than sacrificing your own players to appease your own frustrations.
You think these guys won’t be pissed!!! Ashamed!!! Far out some have no idea.
Deluded if you really thought this was a premiership year. Absolute leaps and bounds this season but today reminds everybody how much work is left to do.
You can either bag the **** out of your own players that when they win you “love” them when they lose you tear them apart or stick fat. Constructive criticism of the game is fine and always a good read. Lately it gotten worse than that.
Nothing wrong with passion and there are many here that have supported the Lions for many more years than myself. Still 6 years and a playing Son that gets ripped to the ****house on his on teams “supporters forum” probably allows me to stand up a voice my disappointment.
There are many many realists with composed commentary on this forum and its those I really enjoy reading.

Yeah mate I’m a massive fan of N.Robbo, there is a reason why he was top ten last year in the club champion voting. Don’t let the haters get to you, every club has whipping boys and it’s normally people that haven’t played the game that are shooting from the hip with no idea.
Thanks for sticking around as the majority of us love having you and Nick on board.

 

[LongLion]

Does any one here actually know that Nick gets a role on a specific player most weeks he plays?? Or does everyone just shoot from the hip with emotion and irrational BS. I’m my own worst enemy here for reading this I guess but I actually enjoy the chat. I’ve refrained from commenting for a while because to be honest anyone would sometimes think we were sitting bottom of the ladder the way some react here.
The abitrary calls for Nick delisting and getting dropped every week is just ridiculous (and many other players)
First game this year he played 3 quarters on Fantasia and kept him scoreless. He got his 2 goals during Nicks compulsory rotation. Asked to go to Wulla for the last quarter and the guy had already kicked 5 (on who I might add) and some drongos on here suggested he had 7 kicked on him??? “Nicks ****, should never play for the Lions again” or words to the affect.
Against Collingwood I thought he played a really good game that day.
Hawthorne kept Breust to one goal (yes from his error) and today McGovern one goal and no influence.
He could run and chase kicks but he doesn’t. He plays his role. Some on here need understand how this works sometimes rather than sacrificing your own players to appease your own frustrations.
You think these guys won’t be pissed!!! Ashamed!!! Far out some have no idea.
Deluded if you really thought this was a premiership year. Absolute leaps and bounds this season but today reminds everybody how much work is left to do.
You can either bag the **** out of your own players that when they win you “love” them when they lose you tear them apart or stick fat. Constructive criticism of the game is fine and always a good read. Lately it gotten worse than that.
Nothing wrong with passion and there are many here that have supported the Lions for many more years than myself. Still 6 years and a playing Son that gets ripped to the ****house on his on teams “supporters forum” probably allows me to stand up a voice my disappointment.
There are many many realists with composed commentary on this forum and its those I really enjoy reading.

Our 3 peat flags were won off the back of a TEAM with everybody knowing & playing their roles. The emotional dribble that pours out of some posters after a loss amazes me & then I get shouted down by them when I suggest they have have had a melt & they should cool their jets a bit. Stick with us Robbo18. I for one find your input most valuable in getting some small insight into the real machinations in making our club great again.

 

[spotthedog1]

A few days and a (bit of a) replay (couldn't watch all of it) on, and my thoughts aren't necessarily better.

Fages' weaknesses came out in this one. Excellent leader of leaders. Not great tactically. Which is fine, because he empowers his other coaches to take ownership of tactical things. That's why Fages, our Communicator-in-Chief, sits boundary side, and Daly sits in the box. This week though, he got outgunned in the mid-game.

Really a bit annoying that Fages tried Lyons on Cripps, and a few other little things, and according to his AFL360 interview, decided mid-way through the 3rd to abandon it. Two issues:
- Cripps was having decent, but not amazing impact, in the late 2nd-early 3rd. Tagging was better than nothing. From part-way through the 3rd through the 4th quarter, he was absolutely destructive. Letting him off the leash was even worse, and I've no idea why, at 3QT, we didn't sit down and say "nup, that's even worse, let's go back to tagging him". The entire 4th quarter he ran free.
- As Paul Roos pointed out on the couch, Lyons isn't renowned as a tagger. You've got someone like Mitch Robbo on the team, who can match him for physicality, and you send Jarryd Lyons to him? What was the point of that?

Season still in good shape. But we just lack a bit of mental awareness.

 

[jackess]

A few days and a (bit of a) replay (couldn't watch all of it) on, and my thoughts aren't necessarily better.

Fages' weaknesses came out in this one. Excellent leader of leaders. Not great tactically. Which is fine, because he empowers his other coaches to take ownership of tactical things. That's why Fages, our Communicator-in-Chief, sits boundary side, and Daly sits in the box. This week though, he got outgunned in the mid-game.

Really a bit annoying that Fages tried Lyons on Cripps, and a few other little things, and according to his AFL360 interview, decided mid-way through the 3rd to abandon it. Two issues:
- Cripps was having decent, but not amazing impact, in the late 2nd-early 3rd. Tagging was better than nothing. From part-way through the 3rd through the 4th quarter, he was absolutely destructive. Letting him off the leash was even worse, and I've no idea why, at 3QT, we didn't sit down and say "nup, that's even worse, let's go back to tagging him". The entire 4th quarter he ran free.
- As Paul Roos pointed out on the couch, Lyons isn't renowned as a tagger. You've got someone like Mitch Robbo on the team, who can match him for physicality, and you send Jarryd Lyons to him? What was the point of that?

Season still in good shape. But we just lack a bit of mental awareness.

Maybe there was a good reason not to send Robbo to Cripps

 

[spotthedog1]

Maybe there was a good reason not to send Robbo to Cripps

Couldn't have been worse than what transpired.

 

[davemc_lions]

an offensive tagger probably be on our list to acquire. We get a few of them go on Neale like the blues did on the weekend. Get there own ball keep Neale quite as well.

 

[dlanod]

- As Paul Roos pointed out on the couch, Lyons isn't renowned as a tagger. You've got someone like Mitch Robbo on the team, who can match him for physicality, and you send Jarryd Lyons to him? What was the point of that?

I'm reasonably sure they valued keeping their #1 midfield team together at centre bounces over applying a hard tag. Robinson almost universally lines up on a wing looking at Billy Bob65 's data from previous games this year. I can't say I necessarily agree with that logic, and it also doesn't address the game outside of centre bounces, but it does line up with Fagan's comment about switching to focus on just winning the ball (which didn't work).

 

[spotthedog1]

I'm reasonably sure they valued keeping their #1 midfield team together at centre bounces over applying a hard tag. Robinson almost universally lines up on a wing looking at Billy Bob65 's data from previous games this year. I can't say I necessarily agree with that logic, and it also doesn't address the game outside of centre bounces, but it does line up with Fagan's comment about switching to focus on just winning the ball (which didn't work).

That would make sense as an explanation as to why they did certain things.

Just very frustrating though, as it doesn't explain why, when it was obvious that those things were failing miserably, they didn't change them.

I was just surprised when I heard Fages say that it was midway through the 3rd that they took the tag off Cripps. You can't always tell when strategies get implemented, and while it was clear he was running clear for most of the second half, I assumed he'd just beaten his man, as opposed to not having a man. Midway through the third is when he really, really got off the chain. I just don't know how that wasn't analysed at 3QT, and again mid-way through the fourth, when the game was still up for grabs and a decision made that Crippa running free was obviously not helping.

Ah well - this is just a different frustrating part of the rebuild. The team have the skills, and we have the expectations, but they just don't have the mental fortitude to show up to every game, or not to relax when you are up against an easier opponent. Still, it beats getting beaten by 10 goals a game. I'll take a fortnight of having just lost to Carlton over being a fan of Carlton any day of the week.

 

[bungalow_bill]

an offensive tagger probably be on our list to acquire. We get a few of them go on Neale like the blues did on the weekend. Get there own ball keep Neale quite as well.

If Berry were fit would have been the perfect go with Cripps player.

We have a great recent record V Blues - who if anyone tagged Cripps previously?

 

[martinson]

If Berry were fit would have been the perfect go with Cripps player.

We have a great recent record V Blues - who if anyone tagged Cripps previously?

I don't have the answer to that but Cripps has improved into something special this year . Also with Walsh they have the nucleus right there to start building a team. I don't think Cripps will be without a tag the rest of the year.

I think from Fages self admission it was a mistake to let him off the chain . Well that was obvious. But the combination of us not winning the ball and maybe having a few sore players inclined us to try something that didn't work .It happens.

The 3 big factors in the game from a player perspective were us letting Cripps run rampant , Zorks getting injured because he was carving them up and giving us some run ,and them tagging Neale out of the game because he was carving them up as well.

So seeing those factors all went against us it was half a miracle to be right in it to near the end

 

[M Malice]

I don't have the answer to that but Cripps has improved into something special this year . Also with Walsh they have the nucleus right there to start building a team. I don't think Cripps will be without a tag the rest of the year.

I think from Fages self admission it was a mistake to let him off the chain . Well that was obvious. But the combination of us not winning the ball and maybe having a few sore players inclined us to try something that didn't work .It happens.

The 3 big factors in the game from a player perspective were us letting Cripps run rampant , Zorks getting injured because he was carving them up and giving us some run ,and them tagging Neale out of the game because he was carving them up as well.

So seeing those factors all went against us it was half a miracle to be right in it to near the end

Yep they look like they'll be a special combination, I do see our Hugh McCluggage, Jarrod Berry combination looking just as good if not better long term, throw in Lachie Neale (still 5 years or so left) and hopefully Cam Rayner improves his endurance base enough to spend his time 60/40 mid/fwd and we will have an elite gun quartet midfield setup.

 

[F_therest]

Yeah mate I’m a massive fan of N.Robbo, there is a reason why he was top ten last year in the club champion voting. Don’t let the haters get to you, every club has whipping boys and it’s normally people that haven’t played the game that are shooting from the hip with no idea.
Thanks for sticking around as the majority of us love having you and Nick on board.

I don't watch your games that often but can't understand the criticism he's received from this game.

True i don't recall seeing anything outstanding from him, but he had a solid game to me. Don't remember any bad errors.
Seemed to stick to McGovern who wasn't in the play all that much, just the one shot on goal.