Review Round 12, 2021 - Melbourne vs. Brisbane Lions

Who were your five best players against Melbourne?


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martinson

Premiership Player
Apr 4, 2015
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As for a bloke under pressure in the back line kicking it 50 meters for it to roll out of bounds and it being called deliberate................ I saw one paid the other week when a forward missed his team mate- in the attacking 50!!!!
They get that one wrong all the time.

You see so many deliberates when the player is kicking it into the forward line where the defenders would have it covered but they never pay that.

It's still deliberate. What's the difference.
 

Nunez

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Aug 9, 2013
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Might have more to do with us not playing him in that role. He certainly has the attributes to do it.
Yeah I find it funny how someone can say he can't play said role when it's clear we've used him in different roles at AFL level. I believe we've done so because of the amount of injuries big bodied inside mids face by playing inside crash and bash footy at too young an age. Berry's injuries haven't been because of that style of footy, but could you imagine his body if he did?
 

davemc_lions

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Aug 21, 2013
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not big on the Scragging or when Big O/Daniher start just watching the other ruck not the ball.
If you basically conceded your not getting first hands on the ball.
The other team won anyway.

I also think we do not stick lots of tackles.. I am a huge Rich fan he missed a few that led to goals.
The more i think about it maybe we do rush Cockatoo back.
Him, Zorko and Dev probably have the best tackling technique in our team constantly.
Out of the three Cockatoo has the strength to get the big mids.
 

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The Zork

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Oct 8, 2014
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Re throws - I’m not sure how much more accurately you can adjudicate it than what they currently are.
If you ask umpires to crack down on it they will start paying ones that are genuine lightning handballs which they do sometimes pay anyway.

As frustrating as a blatant bulldogs like throw is they want they play to keep flowing so I don’t think it’s high on the priorities to crack down on.

I didn’t have that much of an issue with the demons disposal Friday to be honest.
 

davemc_lions

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Aug 21, 2013
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As frustrating as a blatant bulldogs like throw is they want they play to keep flowing so I don’t think it’s high on the priorities to crack down on.
same as the ball dropped in a tackle as long as the ball keeps moving
Nothing to see here
You see it thrown from the bottom of packs a lot now and play on.
Everything to stop a ball up.
 
Oct 6, 2018
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JBerry doesn’t play like that unfortunately.

I was aware, after I posted my comment that I had forgotten Rayner, and he could be that with improved stamina.

I’ve pretty much given up on Ely Smith. He has a big body, but lacks football nous.
Not found
We have a big bodied midfielder he’s playing in the back pocket named Starcavich
He is a freak and he can play anywhere
put him in the middle he could be anything and put Madden or Answerth down on the small forwards Birchall and Lester both can’t play in the same team if we’re gonna win the flag
 

ForzaRoma

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May 9, 2021
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We have a big bodied midfielder he’s playing in the back pocket named Starcavich
He is a freak and he can play anywhere
put him in the middle he could be anything and put Madden or Answerth down on the small forwards Birchall and Lester both can’t play in the same team if we’re gonna win the flag
I wonder if Fagan would be brave enough to play starce in the middle. If we can get Answerth back (who plays the shutdown defender well), then it could well worth a shot. The only issue would be we might play him out of form by moving him in the middle. But if it's a success, then we would have found the final piece to our premiership puzzle. Perhaps it's worth the risk considering we won't be able to win the premiership without a strong big bodied midfielder.
 

McIvor

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May 21, 2020
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The thing that gets me most about Big Joe in the center bounce ruck contests is that in recent weeks he is solely in self-preservation mode and doesn't jump up for that collision with the opposition ruck and just stands flat footed as if he is only trying to nullify the opposition ruck, which even then he's doing a crap job of doing.

I like the fact that we arent playing two rucks like we did in the past few years, but big Joey ain't offering much in those center ruck duels and I reckon his output in recent weeks in the forward line has suffered as a direct consequence.

That being said, no idea what the answer, more an observation, but I love having Big Joe at the club. Just want to get the best out of him is all.
 

luthor

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Oct 13, 2001
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The thing that gets me most about Big Joe in the center bounce ruck contests is that in recent weeks he is solely in self-preservation mode and doesn't jump up for that collision with the opposition ruck and just stands flat footed as if he is only trying to nullify the opposition ruck, which even then he's doing a crap job of doing.

I like the fact that we arent playing two rucks like we did in the past few years, but big Joey ain't offering much in those center ruck duels and I reckon his output in recent weeks in the forward line has suffered as a direct consequence.

That being said, no idea what the answer, more an observation, but I love having Big Joe at the club. Just want to get the best out of him is all.
I agree with your sentiments about Joe.

He's pretty useless at the centre bounce where he just goes up and then back down without providing much of a contest.

It seems that he is a willing participant in whatever capacity we choose to employ him but I firmly believe his energies are better directed to other areas , especially in the forward line. It would be a tragedy if he injured himself at some inconsequential ruck contest, especially when we seem to have got him up and running again after his spending years battling injury at Essendon

I'm not sure of his contract status but I'd like to see us make a play for Mabior Chol.

It looks like he is third banana behind Nankervis and Soldo at Richmond but his performance last night against Essendon, especially in the first half was top drawer.

He's a former Aspley, Brisbane Lions Academy and Lions Reserves NEAFL player.

Would be a big upgrade on Archie and also seriously challenge O for the No1 Ruck spot, while taking the pressure off Joe in that area of the ground.
 
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beardancer

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Oct 16, 2009
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JBerry doesn’t play like that unfortunately.

I was aware, after I posted my comment that I had forgotten Rayner, and he could be that with improved stamina.

I’ve pretty much given up on Ely Smith. He has a big body, but lacks football nous.
I reckon the whole "big bodied midfielder" is bollocks really. Our Brownlow medalist is a dwarf( a fricken awesome dwarf), but small.....but strong, quick, creative, etc. "big bodied" runs a very long second to skill. The reason Petracca, and Dusty are guns is because they're blessed with skill, strength, vision, awareness etc.
 

spotthedog1

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Nov 13, 2011
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We have a big bodied midfielder he’s playing in the back pocket named Starcavich
He is a freak and he can play anywhere
put him in the middle he could be anything and put Madden or Answerth down on the small forwards Birchall and Lester both can’t play in the same team if we’re gonna win the flag
Was going to say something similar about Starce. Reckon they'll start transitioning him soon, maybe as early as next year we might see him play 75 back 25 mid. See how that goes.
 

dlanod

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The thing that gets me most about Big Joe in the center bounce ruck contests is that in recent weeks he is solely in self-preservation mode and doesn't jump up for that collision with the opposition ruck and just stands flat footed as if he is only trying to nullify the opposition ruck, which even then he's doing a crap job of doing.

I like the fact that we arent playing two rucks like we did in the past few years, but big Joey ain't offering much in those center ruck duels and I reckon his output in recent weeks in the forward line has suffered as a direct consequence.

That being said, no idea what the answer, more an observation, but I love having Big Joe at the club. Just want to get the best out of him is all.
If he's not going to jump, he at least needs to follow the ruck when the ball hits the ground. It was brutal to see Gawn effectively tap the ball uncontested and then spread to receive the handball, with Joe watching him go. Two clear chances to impact the play and he chose to split the difference and went with none.
 

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Nuggo

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Aug 24, 2009
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Just let Joe ruck in the forward fifty where he can have a chance of grabbing it and snapping for goal or do something creative. Then let McStay just crash and bash for a little bit in the ruck. This should be enough to give the main Ruck a break.

Although it is clear that the Big O is not a pure ruckman I reckon he must still be carrying a decent injury.
 

twhowler

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Jul 15, 2020
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Was at the game and decided to post after stewing over the game all weekend.

Glass half full - clearly on top against best side for a half. Or Glass half empty - a good side went to another gear and we were nowhere near it.

As Leigh Matthews liked to say, it's never as good as it seems, and it's never as bad as it seems. That said, we need to look at the second half and learn some lessons.

Coach - of course us fans want constant changes and most of them are not good ideas. But the lack of re-jigging when we are getting smacked does seem to speak to a lack of plan B. In particular in the midfield we didn't seem to change much. Starce would have been a nice move. Big, fast. Crash in to some bodies. See if we could get a momentum change.

Backline - We do seem incredibly slow when the games is going against us. Any backline will look slower, but I'm not sure any other team has as many genuinely slow players in the back half. It probably only needs to change by one.

The obvious is Birchall. He has been good but unlike Hodge, seems to get worse as the pressure gets higher. Madden should be backed in - looks great overhead, solid disposal, heaps of speed.

Desperately missing Gardiner but have to plan without him. So who is the third tall without him? i think Lester holds his own despite clearly being underdone on Friday (rare mistake from our medical team). Payne on standby should Adams slip. But one change is enough down back.

Midfield - as has been said ad nauseum, lacked size. It was noticeable how often Oliver would get tackled but still get the ball out.

Zorko has been super the past couple of months, but are we a bit small with him and Neale in the middle? Not saying they can never start in the same centre square, but the balance seems a bit off when they it a lot with Lyons. Robertson looks incredibly strong already and had a great moment or two vs Petracca. He's young but I think can be part of the rotation.

We don't have much else with Rayner and Cockatoo likely 2022 and CEY likely cooked. So it has to be Berry. Get him fit and have him as wing / inside mid. And have him as a defensive inside mid, allowing others to hunt the ball at clearances. It was noticeable when Neale was minding Petracca at half forward at a ball up. Petracca stuck out his massive arm, Neale held on to him, free kick, goal. We should not be giving away goals like that.
Having said all of that, there was definitely a mindset issue at play. Pre bye? Maybe.

Zorko getting rubbed out is a plus. Surely he actually learns his lesson now.

Forward line - can't complain too much, worked well enough first half. Delivery was bad. Just bombed it in. That said, the one change i would make is rotating Daniher through full forward. Only needs to be a few minutes each quarter. But put him really deep and worry the opposition. He's our best flyer at it and plays well up the ground, but i feel the balance is out a bit now between him being a forward and roaming forward / ruck.

We actually have quite a good draw rest of the year. Top 4 well and truly in our grasp. Having played finals in recent years means we are a realistic shot at a flag. Richmond at the G looms large as a real test of our credentials.
 

Back2Back2Back

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Jun 1, 2008
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Dwayne-o reckons the umpiring dept. have ticked them off. Seems the current "interpretation" is that you can shovel the ball with an open hand as long as a clenched fist is contacting it. It's criminal what these campaigners are doing with our game. And don't get me started on shoves in the back that are apparently merely 'protecting the drop of the ball'. :poutingcat:
That's not a new technique - that's how we were taught back in junior AFL days to assist with handballing with the off hand. Does it make it right? Not really, but if the fist is contacting it then it's still technically a correct motion, even with the shovel from the holding hand. The key was ensuring you had that fist make contact.

The protecting the drop of the ball thing I don't get, that never flew. To me that's all just a push in the back, because that's exactly what it is.
 

Tassie4ever

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Dec 7, 2007
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Re Mabior. Why did we let him go in the first place? Were we overstocked in the ruck department? Seriously?

Re why Daniher seems to be in "self preservation" mode in the ruck. Especially v Gawn. Answer- he is. In self-preservation mode. As any sensible opponent his size would be. As Macca was, and he is paid to do the job.

Daniher isn't the answer, obviously. Can only end badly. Don't know what the answer is, honestly.
 

jackess

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Aug 10, 2005
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Re Mabior. Why did we let him go in the first place? Were we overstocked in the ruck department? Seriously?

Re why Daniher seems to be in "self preservation" mode in the ruck. Especially v Gawn. Answer- he is. In self-preservation mode. As any sensible opponent his size would be. As Macca was, and he is paid to do the job.

Daniher isn't the answer, obviously. Can only end badly. Don't know what the answer is, honestly.
Chol is 24 and just played his first good game.

Archie averaged 32 hit outs, 17 disposals and 4 tackles in his first 2 games.
 

Tassie4ever

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Chol is 24 and just played his first good game.

Archie averaged 32 hit outs, 17 disposals and 4 tackles in his first 2 games.
Well someone competent saw something in Chol.

Archie isn't getting a run. And got shown up something dreadful in the Reserves GF last year by a now-delisted second stringer.

How we all wished it were different.
 

jackess

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Well someone competent saw something in Chol.

Archie isn't getting a run. And got shown up something dreadful in the Reserves GF last year by a now-delisted second stringer.

How we all wished it were different.
He’s played one good game. One. The point being Archie started a fair bit better than Chol has even got to and look how it turned out for him.

Chol hasn’t even had 20 hit outs in a single game.

We don’t need to keep inflating the performances of former academy players.

At least the Buzza hype has been put to bed
 

mpal6

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I wonder if Fagan would be brave enough to play starce in the middle. If we can get Answerth back (who plays the shutdown defender well), then it could well worth a shot. The only issue would be we might play him out of form by moving him in the middle. But if it's a success, then we would have found the final piece to our premiership puzzle. Perhaps it's worth the risk considering we won't be able to win the premiership without a strong big bodied midfielder.
I was on this "Starce to the midfield" wagon last year but not anymore. I think he's settled in his current role now and doing a fantastic job. We'll be replacing Birchall and Rich (in the near future), so you want continuity from rest of the players in defense. Starce will need to stay there.

I'd say in Deven we already have the answer to that attacking big body mid. He has all the tools and doing more negative roles presently against Petracca / Oliver / Martin etc and matching up really well. He'll learn a lot this year and we will benefit from it even later this year or in 2022.
 
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Tom14

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Oct 13, 2015
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Richmond is going to very happily move on from Chol at the end of the year.

Discussion of rucks is a bit silly after this game - dees have the best division in the comp. I can't see us realistically being able to upgrade it anytime soon so Oscar is fine for what he is.
 

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