Review Round 12, 2022 - Fremantle vs. Brisbane Lions

[martinson]

I don’t agree with this. Emotion on a field is never a bad thing. It shows that they care and it means something to them. Harris himself is his hardest critic and I feel that is his issue at the moment. Numbers wise he really isn’t that far off of his AA year. I feel this perceived form slump is all in his head. Further more, the captains most under pressure as of late don’t have any of that in them. Heppell and Coniglio just to name a couple.

I don't mind emotion. But it seems to feed into him negatively and he looks down on the world. And to me puts a negative pall over things.

I think when he blew up at Berry that was the low point.

As far as Zorko goes he took his anger out on the opposition , not himself and his teammates.

I do agree that he's far too hard a critic on himself but sometimes there's a broader issue of perceived pressure.

Whatever people say he's not playing with the confidence and assurance that he's capable of.

Maybe I'm reading too much into everything and could be completely wrong but my broader point of thinking he's not a natural or even suitable leader is in no way critical of him. I just don't think he's cut out for it at least at this point in his career.

I'd be grooming Rayner . Then McCluggage and Berry . If Zorks gives it away and Neale commits he clearly should be Captain because he leads from the front, is as tough as nails , is an excellent team player and doesn't let his emotions get the better of him.

 

[Lets Roar like '44]

Harris can show all the emotion he likes. If he got paid on emotions he’d be a squillionaire but he’s not. He’s paid precisely to stop the opposing team kicking the football through the goals. If he can’t do that and Fagan feels he must persist because he’s a pet, then at least do something else; help a teammate out, run at a pace faster than my dead grandmother to receive the ball further afield, hold a tackle. I mean honestly anything is better than what’s being put up now.

 

[martinson]

Harris can show all the emotion he likes. If he got paid on emotions he’d be a squillionaire but he’s not. He’s paid precisely to stop the opposing team kicking the football through the goals. If he can’t do that and Fagan feels he must persist because he’s a pet, then at least do something else; help a teammate out, run at a pace faster than my dead grandmother to receive the ball further afield, hold a tackle. I mean honestly anything is better than what’s being put up now.

Lol .I'll look like I'm anti Harris which I'm not if I thumb that up.

But yeah . It seems obvious that something's not quite right there.

He used to move like a tractor ,now it's a glacier.

 

[Lets Roar like '44]

Lol .I'll look like I'm anti Harris which I'm not if I thumb that up.

But yeah . It seems obvious that something's not quite right there.

He used to move like a tractor ,now it's a glacier.

This is the problem with trading. In other countries sports (yes I went there) they don’t give two hoots how many uncontested handballs they have in their opposing 50 whilst under pressure, oh but they had 3 spoils with their left hand to the fat side which did jack s**t. Sometimes it’s time to trade while you can. For some reason AFL teams don’t- have a feeling it’s because when a coach is on such good money, and the trade people which no one knows anything about also know they have the dream job and are purely yes men, why would you question anything?

 

[LIONS08]

This is the problem with trading. In other countries sports (yes I went there) they don’t give two hoots how many uncontested handballs they have in their opposing 50 whilst under pressure, oh but they had 3 spoils with their left hand to the fat side which did jack s**t. Sometimes it’s time to trade while you can. For some reason AFL teams don’t- have a feeling it’s because when a coach is on such good money, and the trade people which no one knows anything about also know they have the dream job and are purely yes men, why would you question anything?

I’m not sure what game you are comparing AFL to here… comparative to other major sports around the world… our players and coaches are even in the same ball park. As a majority that is. Secondly we have a strict salary cap that we have to abide by… this doesn’t exist world wide and where it does, you can pay a tax to pay over it… simply pay the league 2:1 and you can go over it as much as you wish. Let alone the fact that we have to keep a list of 40 or so players under that cap.
Culture still plays a massive part in our game and fabric players are extremely vital. I’m not saying Harris is a fabric player, I think he is a gun in a slight form slump. All I am saying is our game can’t be compared with the world.

 

[LIONS08]

I don't mind emotion. But it seems to feed into him negatively and he looks down on the world. And to me puts a negative pall over things.

I think when he blew up at Berry that was the low point.

As far as Zorko goes he took his anger out on the opposition , not himself and his teammates.

I do agree that he's far too hard a critic on himself but sometimes there's a broader issue of perceived pressure.

Whatever people say he's not playing with the confidence and assurance that he's capable of.

Maybe I'm reading too much into everything and could be completely wrong but my broader point of thinking he's not a natural or even suitable leader is in no way critical of him. I just don't think he's cut out for it at least at this point in his career.

I'd be grooming Rayner . Then McCluggage and Berry . If Zorks gives it away and Neale commits he clearly should be Captain because he leads from the front, is as tough as nails , is an excellent team player and doesn't let his emotions get the better of him.

Have you played much footy? If you think that is a blow up you would be in for a rude shock. Berry shouldn’t have copped that slight spray, but Harris should have had one of his other defenders come across and kill that ball. It’s a defensive unit these days. Not just 1vs1 like it used to be. I think it’s taking a bit of adjusting but we will get there. Half that unit are new this year. They are still getting used to playing together… kiddy and answerth bugger all games last year. Harris, Diz and Adams wouldnt have played more than 10 or 12 together last year. these things take time.

 

[martinson]

Have you played much footy? If you think that is a blow up you would be in for a rude shock. Berry shouldn’t have copped that slight spray, but Harris should have had one of his other defenders come across and kill that ball. It’s a defensive unit these days. Not just 1vs1 like it used to be. I think it’s taking a bit of adjusting but we will get there. Half that unit are new this year. They are still getting used to playing together… kiddy and answerth bugger all games last year. Harris, Diz and Adams wouldnt have played more than 10 or 12 together last year. these things take time.

No haven't played much footy. No idea really. Just a nuffy throwing a few things out there.

None of that was my point.

As a defensive unit they've had just as much time together as many others. They're going ok.

My comments pertained to Harris specifically ,his body language ,his attitude ,his apparent unhappiness when he's playing.

And tbh his poor form comparative to his abilities. And just wondering why.

I don't think it's an isolated observation.

 

[Scubaveg]

I'm starting to think that this group may have reached its ceiling - if things stand as they are. Can they still win a premiership? Absolutely. It might take a change in personel, a positional swap, a tweak to the gameplan or even a belting a'la 2001 at Princes Park that gives the team a more steely resolve. The talent is there... just got to find a way to break through that 'top 4, but not quite top 2' threshold.

Anyway, next few weeks will be telling.

Absolutely it has.


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[briztoon]

I'm starting to think that this group may have reached its ceiling - if things stand as they are. Can they still win a premiership? Absolutely. It might take a change in personel, a positional swap, a tweak to the gameplan or even a belting a'la 2001 at Princes Park that gives the team a more steely resolve. The talent is there... just got to find a way to break through that 'top 4, but not quite top 2' threshold.

Anyway, next few weeks will be telling.

Our game plan is to play it safe and play the percentages. Very similar to Geelong’s.

We relay on our midfield to break even, and get it into our forward line, which we believe is our strength and difference to all other teams.

The other top clubs are relaying on a strong defence or dominant midfield (or both).

Would be good if all teams were healthy going in to the second half of the season. Carlton the most affected by injuries to date.

 

[scott_the_man]

For all the whining and moaning about Gardiner, it was after he went down that their forward line looked a lot more potent.

As to our midfield woes, a lot of it seems to stem from centre bounces.

I''d love to see both Starc AND Rayner at least occasionally line up together at the centre square. Both are absolute bulls, run hard and can break a tackle

Wouldn't be opposed to Starc playing midfield a bit. Played there in his draft year and was good.

 

[martinson]

Our game plan is to play it safe and play the percentages. Very similar to Geelong’s.

We relay on our midfield to break even, and get it into our forward line, which we believe is our strength and difference to all other teams.

The other top clubs are relaying on a strong defence or dominant midfield (or both).

Would be good if all teams were healthy going in to the second half of the season. Carlton the most affected by injuries to date.

I'm wondering about our forward line.

How many great players do you need there ?

The best forward lines of all time generally had one big target gun , a second fiddle who was strong and reliable ,a small gun, and the rest workhorses who could deliver when the time or opportunity came for them to chip in.

It's all about teamwork and balance.

 

[martinson]

Wouldn't be opposed to Starc playing midfield a bit. Played there in his draft year and was good.

I can see that but he's just so valuable where he is.

Our defence would've fallen apart at stages if he wasn't there on Sunday.

Just kept winning crucial one on ones where they were already away.

 

[Gadzorks]

This is the problem with trading. In other countries sports (yes I went there) they don’t give two hoots how many uncontested handballs they have in their opposing 50 whilst under pressure, oh but they had 3 spoils with their left hand to the fat side which did jack s**t. Sometimes it’s time to trade while you can. For some reason AFL teams don’t- have a feeling it’s because when a coach is on such good money, and the trade people which no one knows anything about also know they have the dream job and are purely yes men, why would you question anything?

Why do you follow AFL and the lions in particular? Everything about it seems to piss you off.

You could find something you actually like and enjoy and makes you feel happy. It is possible.

 

[briztoon]

I'm wondering about our forward line.

How many great players do you need there ?

The best forward lines of all time generally had one big target gun , a second fiddle who was strong and reliable ,a small gun, and the rest workhorses who could deliver when the time or opportunity came for them to chip in.

It's all about teamwork and balance.

The game continually evolves. There are fewer big monster forwards today.

My concern has always been our midfield and contested game. I keep saying I believe we need one more inside mid who can play through their.

 

[martinson]

The game continually evolves. There are fewer big monster forwards today.

My concern has always been our midfield and contested game. I keep saying I believe we need one more inside mid who can play through their.

That is essential.

 

[briztoon]

Their.

 

[scott_the_man]

I can see that but he's just so valuable where he is.

Our defence would've fallen apart at stages if he wasn't there on Sunday.

Just kept winning crucial one on ones where they were already away.

This is true, however he could be effective if thrown into the centre bounce for short bursts. Wouldn't be full time mid. You're right he is incredible for us in defence. Be nice if we had 2 or 3 of him.

 

[McIvor]

Their.

I hate those words. As someone with dyslexia, I often worry that emails and even posting on here looks like a 5 year old writing.

No idea what your post was in reference to LOL.

 

[Dalions]

I hate those words. As someone with dyslexia, I often worry that emails and even posting on here looks like a 5 year old writing.

No idea what your post was in reference to LOL.

Pretty sure it was a post of his own.

 

[Dalions]

The game continually evolves. There are fewer big monster forwards today.

My concern has always been our midfield and contested game. I keep saying I believe we need one more inside mid who can play through their.

I personally believe that we under utilise Bez at centre bounce, would love to see a mix of Neale Berry and Rayner in there a bit more often or Neale Berry Clugga or Neale Berry Bailey.
Jarryd Lyons plays too many centre bounces for mine

 

[McIvor]

Pretty sure it was a post of his own.

See, even in my post above, I was referencing my own email and posts and how I imagine others perceive it, but it then looks like I was speaking generally about others.

 

[briztoon]

I personally believe that we under utilise Bez at centre bounce, would love to see a mix of Neale Berry and Rayner in there a bit more often or Neale Berry Clugga or Neale Berry Bailey.
Jarryd Lyons plays too many centre bounces for mine

I want Berry in there, but I have concerns about his body (shoulder) holding up.

Personally I’d prefer Lyons out of the team, with Neale, Rayner and Robertson as the starting midfield, with Robertson playing the defensive mid role.

Zorko can rotate with Rayner between the forward line and midfield, and Berry and McCluggage can rotate between wing and inside.

I would prefer Bailey playing as a flanker and forward

 

[KissKiss]

I just had a look at that CBA website and Berry basically hasnt been in the centre for over a month (one game he went to 4%). In an ideal world he would be there a lot more and could be that big bodied run with player we need. But coaches have (or his body did) decided he cant be there anymore

 

[davemc_lions]

I want Berry in there, but I have concerns about his body (shoulder) holding up.

Personally I’d prefer Lyons out of the team, with Neale, Rayner and Robertson as the starting midfield, with Robertson playing the defensive mid role.

Zorko can rotate with Rayner between the forward line and midfield, and Berry and McCluggage can rotate between wing and inside.

I would prefer Bailey playing as a flanker and forward

I agree rotate Berry/Rayner of a flank in middle
Zorko/McCarthy/Bailey of the other.. Although rather keep Bailey more forward minutes.
leave Clugga, Prior and Ah Chee on wings

Love a mid with some real zip as Zorko,Lyons and Neale pretty same paced now Zorko dropped a yard.

 

[Jimmy Two Hands]

I personally believe that we under utilise Bez at centre bounce, would love to see a mix of Neale Berry and Rayner in there a bit more often or Neale Berry Clugga or Neale Berry Bailey.
Jarryd Lyons plays too many centre bounces for mine

I agree that it would be good to see Berry more on-ball, Brodie's height advantage against Freo was apparent. But you either play Lyons on the ball, or you dont play him at all.