A huge negative from today’s game was the stagnant ball movement. Lots of long down the line kicks and no sign of anyone looking to bite off those aggressive kicks into the corridor which we were trying earlier in the year.
Autopsy Round 12, 2024: Positives and Negatives vs St Kilda
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Interesting seeing everyone put Bailey in the spotlight after only 1 game with Flynn in the side.
I said it'd happen. Do I want a medal? Maybe I do
. I'm adamant this was the 2nd nail in Bailey's coffin at the club, the first being the acquisition of Flynn.
The only reason anyone even remotely rates Williams, is because he was forced into that sole ruck role and played career best footy, surprising everyone.. Up till that point your average Eagles punter, which includes many on here had totally lost patience and put a line through him thinking he didn't have it.
Take that sole ruck gig away and we're straight back to square 1 with him. He can still ruck adhoc and get involved at stoppages, but he's not a forwards anus, and that's unfortunately his actual role now, a forward.
I know it's only very early days, but it's not like we didn't see him as a forward in his first 3-4 seasons at the club.
Meanwhile the bloke would legitimately fetch something on the open market come trade week. Strung together a couple reasonable years and would have a very tasty highlights package. If Flynn's here to stay, I think it has to happen.
Got a feeling it's going to come up on discussion a fair bit.
Fold the club.
I said it'd happen. Do I want a medal? Maybe I do
. I'm adamant this was the 2nd nail in Bailey's coffin at the club, the first being the acquisition of Flynn.The only reason anyone even remotely rates Williams, is because he was forced into that sole ruck role and played career best footy, surprising everyone.. Up till that point your average Eagles punter, which includes many on here had totally lost patience and put a line through him thinking he didn't have it.
Take that sole ruck gig away and we're straight back to square 1 with him. He can still ruck adhoc and get involved at stoppages, but he's not a forwards anus, and that's unfortunately his actual role now, a forward.
I know it's only very early days, but it's not like we didn't see him as a forward in his first 3-4 seasons at the club.
Meanwhile the bloke would legitimately fetch something on the open market come trade week. Strung together a couple reasonable years and would have a very tasty highlights package. If Flynn's here to stay, I think it has to happen.
Got a feeling it's going to come up on discussion a fair bit.
Fold the club.
- Jan 13, 2013
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Well...you responded to someone's sarcastic comment about them not being the reason we lost...a reasonable assumption for me to make I'd say.
But I agree they were ****ing terrible, might as well just flip a coin at every contest
Got a colleague whos a looong suffering saints fan.
Was not thrilled when RTB returned.
Hes a miserable SOB
- Jan 13, 2013
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No he's great....for any Sydney recruiters reading this, Bailey Williams is an amazing ruckman, you will love himInteresting seeing everyone put Bailey in the spotlight after only 1 game with Flynn in the side.
I said it'd happen. Do I want a medal? Maybe I do
The only reason anyone even remotely rates Williams, is because he was forced into that sole ruck role and played career best footy, surprising everyone.. Up till that point your average Eagles punter, which includes many on here had totally lost patience and put a line through him thinking he didn't have it.
Take that sole ruck gig away and we're straight back to square 1 with him. He can still ruck adhoc and get involved at stoppages, but he's not a forwards anus, and that's unfortunately his actual role now, a forward.
Meanwhile the bloke would legitimately fetch something on the open market come trade week. Strung together a couple reasonable years and would have a very tasty highlights package. If Flynn's here to stay, I think it has to happen.
Got a feeling it's going to come up on discussion a fair bit.
Fold the club.
You sure she wasn't just disgusted that it wasn't HTB?
xInfected_Virus
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Positives +
Meh =
= Quiet game from Chesser but had his moments with his pace.
= Petch looked like someone who's building but was ok for me.
= Credits gang Sheed and Gaff were actually pretty decent but badly affected the team structure with their lack of pace and poor contested ability as the team's gameplan is fast contested ball movement.
= Big Bailey looked decent in the ruck and at ground level against Marshall. But forward craft still needs more work.
Negatives -
Final thoughts.
Well the team did its best considering the late outs to crucial players in Kelly and Waterman. Had Kelly and Waterman been fit then there was a good chance the team can win the game as Waterman is a genuine marking threat and the team had a decent amount of entries and Kelly's consistency would've reduced Reid getting shutdown as they wouldn't purely focus on him as Kelly would've been a contested ball threat.
Reid is still a first year player who will learn the lessons of a hard tag. Now oppo coaches who watched this game will be sure to have a designated tagger who will hard tag Reid right from the start of the match since Reid's impact on the game when he has the ball is immense since he can also carve up the opposition with his disposals. Both Williams are not Waterman marking level threat despite their taller height but that may come soon.
Once we get a fit and firing Hewitt (Hopefully late in the season) and Kelly plus Ginbey and Yeo perform at an elite level consistently plus the team's 2024 gun mid draftee and Reid improves on his tank to monster levels next preseason, then the opposition tagging Reid will no longer become viable since Reid will be stronger and fitter in his second year and he'll be able to break the taggers tackles and burn them with immense support from his teammates.
Team is unfortunately too tall and as a result the Saints were able to rebound it out at will as there was not enough pressure on the ball carrier. Not sure who to leave out in future once Allen and Waterman returns. IMO, three key talls with one of the three key talls being a genuine ruck chop out to Flynn who should be a starter ruck as he's a better tap ruck than B.Williams. Darling these days as I mentioned moves like a lumbering ruck in a small KPF body but he still has experience and smarts plus name recognition. I may make a thread about team's too many tall forwards conundrum.
- Team was at least competitive.
- Still in contention for pick 3.
- Yeo was our best throughout the game and still tried when everyone didn't care at times. Pretty much the only one asides Reid carrying our midfield.
- Reid was really good in the first half. Played like a god until getting tagged.
- Cripps was quiet early on but got into the game more and kicked three goals from tough angles, was decent with his pressure.
- Ryan getting back to full fitness and it showed. Chased better with intent and used his smarts to score goals, was also a solid target in the air despite being marked against bigger key defenders.
- Darling tried and gave it his all.
- Ginbey good all game. Held his ground and took more intercept marks. As I said many times, he needs to be the primary extractor and have a see ball get ball mindset at all times when at the stoppages and middle so it can help free up Reid more who can get separation from his tagger. Was also good down back. Seems too one footed though, hopefully he can develop a consistent right foot.
- Hough doing his job week in week out. Clamped Higgins for most of the game.
- Gov and Barrass kept us in it with their intercepting abilities. Was decently supported by H.Edwards who is a better matchup on the Saints big forwards than Rotham is. I do think Gov and Barrass play even better if we have a genuine third tall KPD playing alongside them (no not Rotham).
- Flynn building nicely, played just 64% TOG compared to Marshall's 87% TOG and was really good when in the ruck against Marshall who to be fair is not a hitout machine like Gawn, Grundy, Witts, Goldstein and ROB. Hopefully he plays more TOG soon as he gets fitter and doesn't permanently play Nic Nat levels of TOG.
- Duggan gave it his all and was also one of our bests.
- Jones pressured well and looked to run the ball out. Didn't turn the ball over with his disposals thankfully.
- Cole was decent and one of our better performers.
Meh =
= Quiet game from Chesser but had his moments with his pace.
= Petch looked like someone who's building but was ok for me.
= Credits gang Sheed and Gaff were actually pretty decent but badly affected the team structure with their lack of pace and poor contested ability as the team's gameplan is fast contested ball movement.
= Big Bailey looked decent in the ruck and at ground level against Marshall. But forward craft still needs more work.
Negatives -
- Harley potentially getting suspended.
- Some horrible non umpiring calls especially non high tackle calls and pushes without the ball on Reid.
- No support asides from Yeo when Reid was getting hard tagged.
- Stagnant ball movement. Too many long down the line where the Saints have plenty of crumbers whereas we had plenty of flyers but not enough crumbers.
- Typical boring Ross Lyon game.
- We never looked right in it. This is a team who just didn't look right especially in the second half.
- Forward line was too tall with J.Williams, Darling (who moves like a lumbering ruck nowadays despite being in the smaller end for a KPF), Maric, B.Williams and Flynn. And yes having three KPDs with H.Edwards is fine with Gov and Barrass. Should've played Dewar instead of J.Williams once Waterman was ruled out.
- Maric very quiet, didn't do much.
- Since Sheed and Gaff did decently, they'll get more games ahead of quicker more deserving younger players even with a fit team. They certainly filled up their credits in Simmo's eyes.
Final thoughts.
Well the team did its best considering the late outs to crucial players in Kelly and Waterman. Had Kelly and Waterman been fit then there was a good chance the team can win the game as Waterman is a genuine marking threat and the team had a decent amount of entries and Kelly's consistency would've reduced Reid getting shutdown as they wouldn't purely focus on him as Kelly would've been a contested ball threat.
Reid is still a first year player who will learn the lessons of a hard tag. Now oppo coaches who watched this game will be sure to have a designated tagger who will hard tag Reid right from the start of the match since Reid's impact on the game when he has the ball is immense since he can also carve up the opposition with his disposals. Both Williams are not Waterman marking level threat despite their taller height but that may come soon.
Once we get a fit and firing Hewitt (Hopefully late in the season) and Kelly plus Ginbey and Yeo perform at an elite level consistently plus the team's 2024 gun mid draftee and Reid improves on his tank to monster levels next preseason, then the opposition tagging Reid will no longer become viable since Reid will be stronger and fitter in his second year and he'll be able to break the taggers tackles and burn them with immense support from his teammates.
Team is unfortunately too tall and as a result the Saints were able to rebound it out at will as there was not enough pressure on the ball carrier. Not sure who to leave out in future once Allen and Waterman returns. IMO, three key talls with one of the three key talls being a genuine ruck chop out to Flynn who should be a starter ruck as he's a better tap ruck than B.Williams. Darling these days as I mentioned moves like a lumbering ruck in a small KPF body but he still has experience and smarts plus name recognition. I may make a thread about team's too many tall forwards conundrum.
So cringe. Yeo says "energy" about 10 times in 20 seconds.
Bring back the "won't back down " song for any game we're within 20 points. Otherwise, just play it out as per usual.
Way too harsh, bloke has only had one game as forward ruck. He kicked a goal too, which is what you want for that position. If he can chop out for Flynn and average a goal a game, then he's nailed the brief. No one is expecting him to be a key forward.Interesting seeing everyone put Bailey in the spotlight after only 1 game with Flynn in the side.
I said it'd happen. Do I want a medal? Maybe I do
The only reason anyone even remotely rates Williams, is because he was forced into that sole ruck role and played career best footy, surprising everyone.. Up till that point your average Eagles punter, which includes many on here had totally lost patience and put a line through him thinking he didn't have it.
Take that sole ruck gig away and we're straight back to square 1 with him. He can still ruck adhoc and get involved at stoppages, but he's not a forwards anus, and that's unfortunately his actual role now, a forward.
I know it's only very early days, but it's not like we didn't see him as a forward in his first 3-4 seasons at the club.
Meanwhile the bloke would legitimately fetch something on the open market come trade week. Strung together a couple reasonable years and would have a very tasty highlights package. If Flynn's here to stay, I think it has to happen.
Got a feeling it's going to come up on discussion a fair bit.
Fold the club.
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Well he needs to be otherwise we can't play him and Flynn in the same side (at least not if we expect to be decent)
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The answer to most of the questions you ask is Simmo.
He remains the biggest road block to what’s next
Hey I'm not saying I don't rate Bailey. I was thrilled when we drafted him and pumped his tyres up loads, was even a sponsor one year from memory.
But he's half the player when he's forward compared to when he's solo rucking on his own and carrying the responsibility alone. We're shooting ourselves in the footy there. Can't imagine Oscar and Waterman back would help his case either.
No doubt well persist with Flynn/Bailey for the rest of the year, maybe even next year probably, but at some point, after an extended period of Williams not hitting his full potential up forward, it'll come up again. And by that point his trade value is going to be half of what it is now.
My 2 cents anyway
Hope I'm wrong, hope he kicks 12 next week.
Get_The_Gaff
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Its the Ross Lyon defensive setup . Players behind the ball and clog up the corridor.
We didn't have the pace to run and handball through the zone like other teams
Strange you would call raising Trew’s lack of pace as slagging off?
Then even stranger, you quote his game stats which have no relevance to whether he has pace or not.
Although his low TOG stat and late entry into the game against tiring players highlights his lack of pace, just rewatch the last quarter when he trailed off behind every ball movement.
As I clearly stated, you cannot be go with a bunch of plodders and not expect the result we got.
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Agree with this, Bailey takes in here are ****ing strange when he at best had half a game forward today with **** all clean supply.
He lacks forward nous for sure, but he has shown a propensity to crash packs, bring the ball to ground and compete at ground level.
He’d also be one of the best second rucks in the league and would give us a massive advantage when the oppo key ruck is rested.
He’s also 24yo, and a fair ****ing way off his peak.
Just reckon we can afford to give him more than a half in which he kicked one of our 10 goals for the match before writing him off.
Are people seriously writing off Williams already??? 
Oh shit. Is she oon the tribunal panel?
Yes yes they are. I might go crazy and give it till the end of the year to maybe give it a bit of a chance to work.Are people seriously writing off Williams already???
It was a bit what I expected playing a Ross Lyon coached opposition - can remember when he was still coaching Freo and they played Melbourne from memory and neither team wanted to win - another snoozefest!
JackieMoon33
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It’s hard to imagine that people don’t have lives, but this forum is a haven for those people.
Should never be losing that game once King is forced off. What an opportunity missed. What a backward step from just 2 weeks ago.
The selection of Sheed AND Gaff could only ever be justified with the 4 points. It didn't happen and Simpson has to wear it.
Sick of getting in front of St Kilda only to capitulate at the end. Deja Vu 2023? Though today it shouldn't be a complete shock given the absurdly tall team we picked plus of course Sheed/Gaff. Again, that's on you Simmo.
At the risk of shooting Bambi JWilliams deserves a spray for being completely non competitive. Don't get me wrong, I think he's shown some improvement this year but he's done very little in the last month and it was no surprise he was initially not selected for this game. Probably needed a week off footy entirely.
As for the other Williams, WAFL time is soon approaching. After the bye we'll have Waterman, Oscar and a fitter Flynn. I though he'd really improved in 2023 but sadly this year has been "regression to the mean".
The selection of Sheed AND Gaff could only ever be justified with the 4 points. It didn't happen and Simpson has to wear it.
Sick of getting in front of St Kilda only to capitulate at the end. Deja Vu 2023? Though today it shouldn't be a complete shock given the absurdly tall team we picked plus of course Sheed/Gaff. Again, that's on you Simmo.
At the risk of shooting Bambi JWilliams deserves a spray for being completely non competitive. Don't get me wrong, I think he's shown some improvement this year but he's done very little in the last month and it was no surprise he was initially not selected for this game. Probably needed a week off footy entirely.
As for the other Williams, WAFL time is soon approaching. After the bye we'll have Waterman, Oscar and a fitter Flynn. I though he'd really improved in 2023 but sadly this year has been "regression to the mean".
Once again, can't say I'm a fan of Shuey's high tackle influence on Reid.
Don't recall him having that at all in his game at JNR level, now these days he's losing respect each week by acting like Jack Ginnivan. Said the same shit last round.
Just stop FFS.
Don't recall him having that at all in his game at JNR level, now these days he's losing respect each week by acting like Jack Ginnivan. Said the same shit last round.
Just stop FFS.
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Thought we SHOULD win, but kept saying I felt nervous before the game. Then Waterman went out and I had a sinking feeling we weren't gonna win this. Oh well, stings cos it's St Kilda at home, but we had outs...showed some ticker at least. Need to just bank North and go into the bye 4 and 9.
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