Preview Round 12: Changes V West Coast

[Walshawk]

We need to use the last seven games to find out more about our list.
Sicily - we know he is an elite HBF but we have heaps of HBFs. Put him forward for a month and see if he can be an elite FF. At least until Lewis is fit.
Hartley - takes CHB allows Sicily to go forward and Frost to go to a flank/pocket
Cousins - prolific goal kicking on baller at VFL level. Give him a go or delist. Same with Jones.
Impey - has pace and agility - can he actually be a pressure forward?
CJ - in
Nash - where does he fit? Put him on the wing for a month and see how he goes. Moves well and has surprisingly good skills and decision making.
Ceglar and McEvoy. If is clear both need to ruck all day. Which is not possible. Both are getting on and neither will play in our next flag. Maybe rest one each game?
Moore - showed a bit when he has played. Is fully fit unlike many of our other young players. Needs games.

In: CJ, Cousins or Jones, Hartley, Moore or Burgoyne
Out: Smith (inj), Scully, Ceglar or McEvoy, Stratts (managed).

Hardwick Frawley Frost
Day Hartley CJ
Nash MItchell Scrimshaw
Gunston TOB Wingard
Impey Sicily Bruest
Ceglar JOM Worpel
Shiels Cousins Morrison Moore

TOB very lucky he stays if we only play one ruckman. I would not risk Burgoyne - if his hammy goes he probably does not play again.

 

[Buttonsticher]

I don't think it matters who's in or out if we persist with the same game plan, whatever that is. It drives me insane seeing 3 or 4 players guarding space while oppo players are running free all over the ground. Worst of all, by a country mile, or 1.6Km, is that except for a handful of players the team seems to have lost it's heart. It's the football equivilent of waving a white flag befor the battle has begun. Having said that I would like to see us play as many of our kids that is practical. You can't play 6 or 8 kids at the same time against any team let alone WC, they would be mincemeat. Will Day is absolutely fantastic but if someone like Darling or Hurn ran into him he would be knocked 3 weeks into the future. I bet he still gets asked for ID when he walks into a pub. We have long term problems that require long term solutions and winning the odd game against the Blues or "possibly" the Crows is just that, no more.

 

[MrPremiership]

Been saying that for a while now

Talks the talk, doesn't walk the walk

 

[extractasam]

I remember in our threepeat year we would sometimes have upwards of 10 different names on the goal scorers list and it was such a major strength of ours that we had so many avenues at goals but I just look across the team sheet these days and only really see Bruest and Gunston as people who will consistently bob up and kick a goal or 2. Where will they come from? No one in the reserves is kicking heaps of goals (although scratch matches I know). I just don't see it unfortunately. Hopefully some changes this week but I'm not sure if it needs to be personnel or strategy but WC are a far greater side than we faced tonight, especially at Optus

We just don't have the personnel.
All comes down to players natural ability and skill imo. We had a wealth a of players with footskills under pressure back then. We had more defensive half players back then who could hit the scoreboard than we have forward half players now.
Think Guerra, Birchall, Suckling, Hodge even Duryea. Always felt confident if i saw any of those guys with an ounce of space around the arc.

Makes me think in general players with that type of skill just exist at a lesser percentage these days.

 

[MrPremiership]

We just don't have the personnel.
All comes down to players natural ability and skill imo. We had a wealth a of players with footskills under pressure back then. We had more defensive half players back then who could hit the scoreboard than we have forward half players now.
Think Guerra, Birchall, Suckling, Hodge even Duryea. Always felt confident if i saw any of those guys with an ounce of space around the arc.

Makes me think in general players with that type of skill just exist at a lesser percentage these days.

Disagree.

We have players with a lot of ability. They just aren't performing. They are trying, but its just not working.

On paper, we are much better than 15th.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Disagree.

We have players with a lot of ability. They just aren't performing. They are trying, but its just not working.

On paper, we are much better than 15th.

Last week proved that.

Yes, we only beat Carlton but the style of play we delivered after quarter time was poles apart from what else we have served up for the majority of this year, and we looked a finals like team with all of our run, connection, tap ons, energy etc.

Sadly, for the best part of the season that first 20 minutes of Q1 against the Blues is what we’ve managed to serve up.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Out: TO, Smith (inj) and Nash
In: Patts, Jones and Burgers

 

[Hawk Dork]

In CJ and Paton

out a ruck and smith

 

[hawkman]

In: Jiath, Burgoyne, Patton
Out: Morrison, Smith, O'Brien

Would also make a statement and drop one of the inside mids of O'Meara, Shiels or Worpel. With Mitchell not sure you can carry 4 one paced midfielders. We get hurt on the spread way too often

Ceglar survives only because it is Naitanui. Should never play again against the physical ruckman though, gets bullied nearly every time

Move Impey back, Day on a wing

 

[Millsie69]

Time to mix things up a bit

Out - Smith & Nash
In - Burgoyne & Puopolo

You heard Clarko, he won't bring too many young guys in at once!

 

[Blackhawk42]

I don't think Scully should play again personally. But I'm also realistic enough to know that Clarko won't drop him with Smith out.

We are too slow around the stoppages when the ball hits the ground. We just need something that Mitchell, Worps, Shiels and JOM can't provide. Wingard CAN provide it and should be played there.

We also need all our talls to combat a huge Eagles forward line. Frawley is safe as a result.

If we were playing a different opposition i'd be making these changes...

Out: Scully, Smith (injured), Frawley, Stratton.
In: Jiath, Moore, Patton, Jones

In reality I think it will be closer to...

Out: Smith, someone who doesn't deserve to be in Morrison, Day (managed).
In: Patton, Jiath, Burgoyne.

 

[westhawk]

I want Howe in the team. Is a big unit and can create space for our other mids. Look at the job Mundy did last night, he just kept pushing our mids off the line. That is the role Howe can do and he provides the hardness that we need. Time to rough up a few opposition mids and become unsociable again.

 

[user33]

Ceglar has to be dropped, he’s awful.

Even Dermie was politely hanging s**t on him last night, knows he’s no good.

 

[MrPremiership]

Last week proved that.

Yes, we only beat Carlton but the style of play we delivered after quarter time was poles apart from what else we have served up for the majority of this year, and we looked a finals like team with all of our run, connection, tap ons, energy etc.

Sadly, for the best part of the season that first 20 minutes of Q1 against the Blues is what we’ve managed to serve up.

Exactly.

So its' not a talent issue, and its not an effort issue.

Then what is it? Game style? COVID related issues?

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

Exactly.

So its' not a talent issue, and its not an effort issue.

Then what is it? Game style? COVID related issues?

all of the above

 

[MrPremiership]

all of the above

So, then drafting kids won't fix anything.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

So, then drafting kids won't fix anything.

i would think having a normal year would go a long way to fixing things, or at the very least, being able to better identify what our problems are.

I'm sure drafting kids will help to some degree, but so will getting blokes in through FA/trade, playing at the MCG, being able to train properly, altering our gameplan, getting some fringe players to either find their feet in our 22 or replaced etc. There's no easy solution to any football issues and ours are just compounded by the fact we can't get any continuity in working on them for obvious reasons

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Exactly.

So its' not a talent issue, and its not an effort issue.

Then what is it? Game style? COVID related issues?

all of the above

So, then drafting kids won't fix anything.

There’s a lot to consider.

Is it the age of the list?
Is it the HUB environment?
Is it the gameplan?
Is it the feeling that were dudded by the Skoda stadium games?
Is it the confidence of the group as a result of bad form?
Is it bad form as a consequence of the gameplan?

Have all of these things been a consideration at different times? I’m sure they have, and to differing degrees.

I don’t think it will hurt to get some more kids onto the list, but I also don’t think that what we are seeing is anymore a personnel issue than it is above the shoulders.

 

[StillAtLarge]

Play Impey off a wing and Jiath on the other (Smith inj, Scully). I wouldn't want to tinker with our back 6, they've been excellent under significant duress. Jones for Shiels is another one worth considering.

 

[MrPremiership]

Play Impey off a wing and Jiath on the other (Smith inj, Scully). I wouldn't want to tinker with our back 6, they've been excellent under significant duress. Jones for Shiels is another one worth considering.

Shiels has been very poor for most of the season.

 

[Flukey!]

Its an audition for the next wingman, needed too if we lose two wingmen permanantly

CJ!
He gets my vote for our next wingman.

 

[user33]

Do people really think we should be dropping Morrison? He’s reliable and improved greatly on last year.

He isn’t the most exciting player but here’s a list of players he was better then last night:

Mitchell, O’Meara, Smith, Scully, Hardwick, Frawley, Wingard, Stratton, Ceglar, McEvoy, O’Brien, Gunston, Impey, Shiels and Nash.

 

[hawkman]

Do people really think we should be dropping Morrison? He’s reliable and improved greatly on last year.

He isn’t the most exciting player but here’s a list of players he was better then last night:

Mitchell, O’Meara, Smith, Scully, Hardwick, Frawley, Wingard, Stratton, Ceglar, McEvoy, O’Brien, Gunston, Impey, Shiels and Nash.

He is a slow outside mid. It is bad enough we have too many slow inside mids, we don't need slow outside mids to add on to the issues we have

 

[Brishawk]

Exactly.

So its' not a talent issue, and its not an effort issue.

Then what is it? Game style? COVID related issues?

I think part of it is the mix off players but also a big part is confidence. Unlike other seasons, you can't train away a bad game as easily. So where do you get your confidence from when you are out of form? West Coast needed a change of scenery. Richmond took a while to get going. But those are two of the top teams. Not many others have had a run of losses and then turned it around.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

I think part of it is the mix off players but also a big part is confidence. Unlike other seasons, you can't train away a bad game as easily. So where do you get your confidence from when you are out of form? West Coast needed a change of scenery. Richmond took a while to get going. But those are two of the top teams. Not many others have had a run of losses and then turned it around.

GWS did it after getting blasted by Deledio but they were getting a couple of wins against decent sides before then, just intermittently

Collingwood have been lucky in that they've played like 4 of the bottom 6 (and even lost one) over the past few rounds or else their form slump would've been a lot more damaging.