Preview Round 12: Changes V West Coast

[The Spirit of Cricket]

Exactly, that excuse is baffling.

read what i said

i didn't say 'it's the hubs that are making us play bad', i said we, as well as the 12 other disrupted clubs, will have a better idea of what's wrong and how to fix it when things return to normal

 

[Delecate Des]

Your an opposition mid and you see worpel and Howe walking your way. Who do you want standing next to you at the stoppage? Pretty sure Fyfe was happy that Howe wasn’t playing. It isn’t that Howe is a great player but he makes life hard for the opposition unlike the rest of our mids. I think people recognise that and are hopping he can change the dynamic.

Hopefully Howe is getting some fitness up and can get into the side soon. No world beater but has a crack and at 190cm will take on some of the brash and crash! I would like to see a combination of Howe, Chad, Mitch with JOM and Worps rotating through the middle.

 

[bigbuddyboy]

Should only ever be a maximum of 2 out of Mitchell, Worps, Shiels, JOM at the centre bounce.

JOM and Worpel should play forward a lot more than they currently do.

Wingard should play 70% (maybe more) midfield. Bruest should play more midfield.

Day and Nash should have a decent crack on the wing every now and again.

 

[hk89]

You do realise there’s 17 other clubs having to deal with very similar, if not identical, problems with training/playing interstate/continuity don’t you?

Why would we be any better than them in 2021 of things can return back to something close to normal?

Because what you've said simply isn't true.

Many other clubs have a very dissimilar experience to us. No other club will have played only 2 games at their home ground by the end of the season, even the other Vic Clubs. How is 6 home games (with home crowds) in a row for WC and Freo (by the end of round 13) anything similar to us? Can you imagine how much angst we'd be hearing from say Eagle's fans if they got to play 2 home games at Optus for the entire year, and one of those was against Freo, so only one home game against an away team for the entire year, which is what we'll have received by season end. They'd be rightly saying the entire season was compromised, and the ladder positions a farce.

All the interstate teams will have played a s**t load of games at their home ground by the end of the season, many (if not the majority) of them in front of partisan home crowds.

Even the other Vic clubs have done better than us with home grounds. Saints had 4 games at Marvel (although against at other Vic teams, some of them co-tennants) to our 2 at the MCG. Dogs the same. Tigers also had 4 games at the G. North with 4 at Marvel. Carlton 4 across their two home grounds. Bombers 3 (would have been 4 if not for Melbourne game issue). Cats (along with Essendon) had the second worst of it after us, with only 3 games down at Geelong.

Most of interstate teams will have played 3-4 times as many home ground games by the end of the season compared to us. The other Vic teams, will have mostly played on their home grounds twice as often as us (all but Cats and Bombers who will have only played one more at their home ground than us).

There is no doubting we have been s**t, and the draw is only part of the problem, but to say it hasn't been a massive disadvantage playing on our home ground twice when some of our opposition will likely have played at least 6, and possibly 8 or more at their home ground is just very very wrong. 8 home ground games vs 2 is NOT 'very similar'. It isn't the same ballpark, it ain't the same league, it ain't even the same *in' sport. Basically the AFL have ****ed us and tried to pass it off as a foot massage.

 

[Mrzohs]

Hopefully Howe is getting some fitness up and can get into the side soon. No world beater but has a crack and at 190cm will take on some of the brash and crash! I would like to see a combination of Howe, Chad, Mitch with JOM and Worps rotating through the middle.

I don't mind the addition of Howe the issue i see is Shiels,Mitch in the center square with Howe at the same time.
ItWon't work.
Chemistry,Structure,Synergy, is killing our mids. They will have to make some tuff choices soon in the middle with balance.
All fremantle did was keep the ball of us they knew we we're far to slow to get it back Geelong did the same thing.

-It's one thing to win the ball we have no one to break the line and damage by foot to our forwards advantage.
-Secondly when we loose the footy to damn slow or lazy to win the ball back or cause a turnover.

Time to bring Jones,Finn into the mix i would look at permanently getting Wingard in there as we'll as Impey&Bruest in spurts.

 

[Delecate Des]

I don't mind the addition of Howe the issue i see is Shiels,Mitch in the center square with Howe,slow by foot, slow by hands and not damaging kicks.
Chemistry,Structure,Synergy, is killing our mids. They will have to make some tuff choices soon in the middle with balance.
All fremantle did was keep the ball of us they knew we we're far to slow to get it back Geelong did the same thing.

-It's one thing to win the ball we have no one to break the line and damage by foot to our forwards advantage.
-Secondly when we loose the footy to damn slow or lazy to win the ball back or cause a turnover.

Time to bring Jones,Finn into the mix i would look at permanently getting Wingard in there as we'll as Impey&Brust in spurts.

Shiels is the one that Howe would likely replace. Howe clears a path for Mitch, Wingard provides the pace and x factor! I would like to see JOM on a wing with a few starts in the middle. Jones, I reckon will be next up for a recall. I recall Clarko saying they wanted Jones to spend time forward, so maybe they are working towards a specific role. Finn's time will come, we rarely throw too many youngster in a once.

 

[Tall Tales and True]

Talk of Howe's toughness is much over-rated. There may be a place for him, as a defender probably, but his suspension last year, for example, was more bad luck/management than hardness. He has played the role he has because of his limited skills, slow decision-making & lack of confidence; defence is probably his go (like his junior years, as I recall).

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[Stratton24]

You do realise there’s 17 other clubs having to deal with very similar, if not identical, problems with training/playing interstate/continuity don’t you?

Why would we be any better than them in 2021 of things can return back to something close to normal?

Not true. Brisbane 0 days in a hub. Port 16 days. We have spent an extra game than all the Vic teams in the hubs, only got to play one home game, only team that had to move into a hub and fly in and play on the same day, have had to play all the teams with a home ground advantage at their actual home ground rather than a neutral ground, have to move all around the country rather than settle into Noosa like Gill’s team. All facts.

 

[The Offerman]

Talk of Howe's toughness is much over-rated. There may be a place for him, as a defender probably, but his suspension last year, for example, was more bad luck/management than hardness. He has played the role he has because of his limited skills, slow decision-making & lack of confidence; defence is probably his go (like his junior years, as I recall).

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Doesn't have the footskills, or the quick toe for backline duty. He can tackle, and that's it really. Inserting him into an already very vanilla midfield is a recipe for further disaster.

 

[TylerDurden]

Howe is more of the same. Wont change a thing. 5 mins in everyone will be bemoaning his long bombs to no one and wanting him dropped.

 

[CHUBBSS]

West Coast should pants us....but we can still play some good footy.

Ceglar and Scully need to go at the bare minimum and the engine room needs a shift. I have never seen a worst attack on the footy then Scully last game, people use to blast hill but he actually provided value moving forward and accuracy by foot, scully legitimately offer zero value, it is boggling why he has a game all season over other players.

Wingard/Worpel/Shiels/Finn/Nash+Mcevoy(Ruck) then let Mitchell and jager and others rotate in (wingard and worpel both work well together) The only good position jagaer can play now is hff, he doesn't have the kicking to play on the wing and his disposal is ordinary at best but he can still win a contest so let him try bring it into the 50.

Put Mitchell on a wing and let him regain his strength and confidence in his leg, he still works hard so let him work. (He can play second primary mid team)

Bring in morris again and let him gain confidence heading in 2021 and learn of breust.

Put CJ on the other wing we need some speed and we need to win some 1 on 1's and most of all we need to remove the dreadful disposal.

Put the year to use and build the strategy around benefiting the young guys in 2021, rotate them all through every second game if we need to be but we Clarko needs to realise the year is smoked, our midfield is smoked and the kids aren't learning playing under 12's scratch matches for no points.

On the flip side the coaches and list management need to put their hands up for mistakes in the past and look to fix them going into 2021 by starting so in the next round. (That includes hiring some senior and experience line and head coaches)

 

[TylerDurden]

West Coast should pants us....but we can still play some good footy.

Ceglar and Scully need to go at the bare minimum and the engine room needs a shift. I have never seen a worst attack on the footy then Scully last game, people use to blast hill but he actually provided value moving forward and accuracy by foot, scully legitimately offer zero value, it is boggling why he has a game all season over other players.

Wingard/Worpel/Shiels/Finn/Nash+Mcevoy(Ruck) then let Mitchell and jager and others rotate in (wingard and worpel both work well together) The only good position jagaer can play now is hff, he doesn't have the kicking to play on the wing and his disposal is ordinary at best but he can still win a contest so let him try bring it into the 50.

Put Mitchell on a wing and let him regain his strength and confidence in his leg, he still works hard so let him work. (He can play second primary mid team)

Bring in morris again and let him gain confidence heading in 2021 and learn of breust.

Put CJ on the other wing we need some speed and we need to win some 1 on 1's and most of all we need to remove the dreadful disposal.

Put the year to use and build the strategy around benefiting the young guys in 2021, rotate them all through every second game if we need to be but we Clarko needs to realise the year is smoked, our midfield is smoked and the kids aren't learning playing under 12's scratch matches for no points.

On the flip side the coaches and list management need to put their hands up for mistakes in the past and look to fix them going into 2021 by starting so in the next round. (That includes hiring some senior and experience line and head coaches)

You reckon Bolton was a mistake?

 

[Mrzohs]

Shiels is the one that Howe would likely replace. Howe clears a path for Mitch, Wingard provides the pace and x factor! I would like to see JOM on a wing with a few starts in the middle. Jones, I reckon will be next up for a recall. I recall Clarko saying they wanted Jones to spend time forward, so maybe they are working towards a specific role. Finn's time will come, we rarely throw too many youngster in a once.

Agree, tough call shiels is our barometer! I am happy for him to stay out of the center, Our line-up and structure is so predictable any one on here can tell you it!

Jom, can play wing and center square.
Worpel, can play hff and square.
Mitchell - must find 5 mins a qtr some wear else and rotate fresh legs!
Wingard,Impey,Bruest constantly rotated.

There is no reason why Impey or Bruest can't attend more center bounces then push fwd or back in the general field of play. Clarko game day coaching is stale, i want variety, spilt the bulls role 50/50 at the center bounce between Mitch&Worpel. Surround them with..
10 - Jom,Wingard
7 -Jones/Finn/Howe.
5 Breust/Impey.

Port,Tigs,Lions,Cats they all do it they are playing guys no bigger than Day thru the middle wake up!!!

 

[CHUBBSS]

You reckon Bolton was a mistake?

In short yes, winning is culture and he lost that at Carlton.

Let me play a scenario out if we make finals in 2021, Clarko makes a crazy decision to play x,y,z in shifting rotation across their zones. Newman agrees but Bolton does not, Clarko is stubborn and wants his opinion to play out so disagrees with Bolton's assessment even if his right. thus we lose the game.

Another scenario, Bolton just agrees with clarko because of his past experience at Carlton and loosing and has no reference ability over what is the correct decision.

Based on our coaching groups level of experience inside and outside the club we have mix significantly wrong and this really stops at clarko. Once was a time he was taking pay cuts to bring in significantly experienced personal. Boltons experience is hawks and a losing Carlton. Newman a losing Richmond and now hawks

On top of all this, I am still filthy on losing David Rath, he is a dead set genius and seriously valued.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

You reckon Bolton was a mistake?

If he's just a Clarko yes man, then yes.

 

[Zack]

If he's just a Clarko yes man, then yes.

I'm in agreement with this.

 

[Gaston]

I know he isn't flavour of the month but I would play O'Brien in the ruck.
Only bloke on our list with a leap to match Natanui.
Who knows, around the ground he could get a bit of the pill and improve his confidence.
Anything is better than Ceglar.

 

[The Offerman]

Put CJ on the other wing we need some speed and we need to win some 1 on 1's and most of all we need to remove the dreadful disposal.

I'm all for trying to address our awful disposal but adding the single worst kick in Victoria in his draft year, and the third worst in the country in that class, probably not the finest way to go about it.

 

[Freshmeat]

Eagles should win this by 40 +

Goals?

 

[Freshmeat]

What is the point of bringing in a 37 year Burgoyne?

Because he’s Burgoyne!!

 

[CHUBBSS]

I'm all for trying to address our awful disposal but adding the single worst kick in Victoria in his draft year, and the third worst in the country in that class, probably not the finest way to go about it.

But he can't play in the backline because of that issue, so the wing is the primary position he can play to use his run a weapon. There was a time we focused on players strength to use as a weapon, scully has none at least play CJ for experience heading into 2021 and work on that kicking but use his run and carry, senior players could greatly help him... and least he would attack and pressure...

 

[CHUBBSS]

If he's just a Clarko yes man, then yes.

most likely he does not have the seniority or experience to challenge clarko now, and will just fall into yes man or not heard category if challenged, that is not good.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Because he’s Burgoyne!!

We aren't winning anything with him, and he won't be around when we are contending. Time for tough calls to be made. He's a legend and a fan favorite, but he's just holding someone else back. It's pointless.

 

[Gene Simmons]

You reckon Bolton was a mistake?

We are actually playing exactly like Carlton under Bolton, cant score, players have no freedom, stagnant movement...just ugly to watch. Is it a coincidence?

or does Bolton have an influence in this horrible gamestyle?

Maybe this gamestyle works when you have kicking weapons, and footy brains.. we are totally lacking in both those departments.

 

[Slysh]

We aren't winning anything with him, and he won't be around when we are contending. Time for tough calls to be made. He's a legend and a fan favorite, but he's just holding someone else back. It's pointless.

By that same logic lets drop Stratton, Frawley, Big Boy, Shiels, Scully, Ceglar, and Smith