Preview Round 12: Changes V West Coast

[Blackhawk42]

We’re getting smashed on the spread - we just can’t pressure teams quicker mids on the inside once they get moving with all of Mitchell/JOM/worpel/shiels in the middle. Also need to find some outside options with smith out, hendo done and Scully not really performing.

We do have a lot of potential inside mid and wing options however so with season over might as will change it up.

Backline is holding up pretty well considering. Outside of Breust and Gunston forward line isn’t really working so can’t be much worse changing things up.

Outs: Smith (injured), the following ‘managed’ Impey, BB, JOM, Scully, Hardwick (out of form), Morrison (A bit stiff), TOB

Unlikely for Clarko to do this but our best 22 (ex silk) just got done by a bottom 4 side (and losing 5 of last 6) + board direction on focus for 2021.

In: Glass, CJ, Hartley, Jones, Moore, Finn, Ross, Patton

CJ Frawley Stratton
Sicily Frost Day
Glass Mitchell Scrim
Wingard Gunston Moore
Nash Patton Breust
Ceglar Worpel Jones
I: Shiels Hartley Ross Finn

While lots of changes the side still has heaps of experience, with only midfield a bit thin.

But Clarko will likely just go with the bare minimum.

I'm certainly keen for some big changes, but dropping Hardwick for Glass is one of the crazier proposals I've seen in this thread in all due respect.

 

[fairdinks]

With Clarko referencing bringing guys in who have been performing in the scratch matches, it makes those post-game write ups on each players performance all the more interesting.

We know Jones has been the best mid by far, so you'd have to think he is close to a recall.
CJ has been noted his for line breaking and higher confidence levels in each game.
Dylan Moore had over 20 touches and 2 goals for 3 games in a row too I believe.

Those 3 kept standing out as the best performed of the youngsters in my view.

Agree with this comment. I feel these three are the only group of our 2nd or 3rd year players (not currently in the side) they can make it. Maybe Kossy if he can get enough time on the park. I just cannot fathom why Jones and Moore have not been given a better and longer run at it. CJ will get his chances.

 

[LMGjr]

Nah this was an issue last year, we played ugly footy all year. It seems to be magnified this year but the style is much the same.

Not sure why Bolton is copping heat now, we have no idea what is going on in the coaches box yet we look at Bolton. We missed finals last year when Bolton wasn't here.

People talk about his culture but he was around and highly respected when we were winning flags. Blaming him is nothing more than looking for a scapegoat.

In my case the bias is very simple - I hate what he sent Lamb out to do to Sicily and if I was a Hawthorn player .............yeah I'd tune out because that was just weak and pathetic.

I'll put it another way - if he looked you in the eye and asked for more hardness more commitment more aggressiveness after ordering another player to do something that was piss weak would you listen or take him seriously?

I'm sorry but that will always be in the backs of the minds of the players that night and what transpired. No doubt he's forgiven, but forgotten when being eye balled by him..........

I own that is my bias, because apparently he is a good man, and good men often finish where?

 

[burner1]

I'm certainly keen for some big changes, but dropping Hardwick for Glass is one of the crazier proposals I've seen in this thread in all due respect.

??? And your response is one of more puzzling I’ve seen in this thread.

I’ve listed glass on the wing and nowhere said he’s a straight swap for Hardwick (just one of many hypothetical changes). Glass has been emergency all year so must be close. Hardwick has been out of sorts all year and if going for change his name would be in the shortlist (of a long list) of potential players to be ‘managed’.

 

[cryptor]

In my case the bias is very simple - I hate what he sent Lamb out to do to Sicily and if I was a Hawthorn player .............yeah I'd tune out because that was just weak and pathetic.

I'll put it another way - if he looked you in the eye and asked for more hardness more commitment more aggressiveness after ordering another player to do something that was piss weak would you listen or take him seriously?

I'm sorry but that will always be in the backs of the minds of the players that night and what transpired. No doubt he's forgiven, but forgotten when being eye balled by him..........

I own that is my bias, because apparently he is a good man, and good men often finish where?

Might not have been honourable but it's probably the best thing that's happened for Sicily's development. That game was the catalyst for him to make huge inroads on his largest flaw as a player. How often have we seen Sicily reported this year? How many silly free kicks has he given away for doing something undisciplined in retaliation? I struggle to think of many examples. He's practically a zen master now relative to a couple years ago.

 

[fairdinks]

This is a pretty passionate forum at present with lots of good suggestions and views.
Just a couple of observations though:
I cant see why people want Frawley out. He has been very good this year IMO under enormous pressure. The backline in general is not our problem and with the quality of ball coming in, they are dong well against the tide. I only see Stratton and Hardwiick struggling a little. Stratts is no where near his best, but is still competing as is Hardwick, who set has himself a very high bar. Sicily and Frost have been fanstaic as has Day...and Scrimshaw keeps showing good signs.
The midfield is a serious issue right now, but the quality is still there. I think it is just flat and does need injection of youth and a different dynamic. Id get Day and Scim to have brief runs, but also give Jones a long stint. We dont have that really quick, classy line breaker in the club and feel it will be a priority come draft time.
Although i don't disagree with the 'vanilla' tag on Morrison (at present), I can see some class there. He would be a good finisher in a better team and now has added versatility. We must persist with Nash as he has qualities no other player has. Impey getting fitter and add a Jones, CJ, Moore types, we have added interest in how the rest of the year plans out. Maybe Ross (cant see it TBH) or Walker (not fit enough?). Not sure Hanrahan is as good as we thought and Minch is not going to be long term. I have a good feeling for Morris in a year or two. He came in too soon IMO, but seems to have some agro and tools.
I woud not be bringing in Finn until the coaching staff think he is ready. We have Jones, Howe, Cousins to try first.
The forwards can't do their stuff with the way the ball is being delivered at present. Change the entry and we may just find our efficiency improves. Lets see what 2021 brings. I have to admit I am really hopefull for TOB, but am losing faith like most others.....you never know, he may just still break out . Im afraid I cant see Patton returning to his potential and its a wait and see with Lewis for me.
My main gripe is that we need to learn how to stick a tackle. No one fears us physically any more
There will be a lot of changes made end of year, some obvious, but i suspect some will be left field, given Clarkos history.

 

[Roddy]

would like to see finn AND cj

FIFY

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

Might not have been honourable but it's probably the best thing that's happened for Sicily's development. That game was the catalyst for him to make huge inroads on his largest flaw as a player. How often have we seen Sicily reported this year? How many silly free kicks has he given away for doing something undisciplined in retaliation? I struggle to think of many examples. He's practically a zen master now relative to a couple years ago.

Sicily's change hasn't been heralded enough in the media and even on here . He has been completely infallible in that regard for this entire year and the back half of last year too. People still talk about him as if he's a walking time-bomb but teams constantly target and provoke him and he constantly does nothing in retaliation other than make them look like morons. It's been a real joy watching him mature while still being as (if not more) effective as a player. One of the bright points of this year.

He should be VC in our next group of leadership changes, and I would be open to him being captain considering his character development.

 

[TylerDurden]

Never saw Sicily as a captain. Now I'm coming around.

 

[TylerDurden]

Minch kicked a handful.

Glass our best apparently.

 

[Sturty]

If Glass is our best we are in a world of PAIN.

 

[Blackhawk42]

??? And your response is one of more puzzling I’ve seen in this thread.

I’ve listed glass on the wing and nowhere said he’s a straight swap for Hardwick (just one of many hypothetical changes). Glass has been emergency all year so must be close. Hardwick has been out of sorts all year and if going for change his name would be in the shortlist (of a long list) of potential players to be ‘managed’.

Apologies, I'm aware you didn't directly say you'd drop Hardwick for Glass. I was just struggling to imagine a Hawthorn side with Glass (who I don't rate) in defence over Blake Hardwick who is best 22 player every week in my opinion.

 

[Wingnut19]

Never saw Sicily as a captain. Now I'm coming around.

same. Can see it now. He would be long term and he's maturing each year. Gun

 

[Milkshaker]

The biggest problem this year in my eyes is the reduced game time. We seem to have a (albeit dull) game plan designed to outlast teams and with the lack of attrition in the games this season it isnt working. Teams arent fatiguing and guys like Scully, Shiels, Smith and even Worpel arent standing out in red time when their durability should be shining. God I hope we go back to real quarters next year.

Agree. We slim down our players for this reason. We make the opponents chase us. With smaller grounds and shorter quarters and smaller bodies there are a few issues for us to deal with. I don't think we need to overreact list wise just yet.

 

[Wingnut19]

Our Irishmen are so puzzling. Look at mckenna, Oconnor, touhy etc. all lovely kicks and smart footballers. Glass and to a lesser extent Nash came over with bigger wraps but just have not adjusted as well. Still have high hopes for Glass, his skills are great yet his understanding of the game isn't great. Nash is the opposite I feel. Both have the tools that our side lacks. Pace and strength. We will not get a better time to play them for an extended stint. Id argue Glass could only have this year to keep his spot on list. Might be what he needs. Play them until the end of the year, tell them their spot is secure. Glass in the guts and Nash on a wing, what have we got to lose. I bet we will see sharp improvement by the end of the year and they will become 2 more pieces going foward.

 

[Milkshaker]

Our Irishmen are so puzzling. Look at mckenna, Oconnor, touhy etc. all lovely kicks and smart footballers. Glass and to a lesser extent Nash came over with bigger wraps but just have not adjusted as well. Still have high hopes for Glass, his skills are great yet his understanding of the game isn't great. Nash is the opposite I feel. Both have the tools that our side lacks. Pace and strength. We will not get a better time to play them for an extended stint. Id argue Glass could only have this year to keep his spot on list. Might be what he needs. Play them until the end of the year, tell them their spot is secure. Glass in the guts and Nash on a wing, what have we got to lose. I bet we will see sharp improvement by the end of the year and they will become 2 more pieces going foward.

Agree play them for the rest of the year.

 

[LMGjr]

Might not have been honourable but it's probably the best thing that's happened for Sicily's development. That game was the catalyst for him to make huge inroads on his largest flaw as a player. How often have we seen Sicily reported this year? How many silly free kicks has he given away for doing something undisciplined in retaliation? I struggle to think of many examples. He's practically a zen master now relative to a couple years ago.

Yeah, he's a good boy now.

We have enough good boys, imo. Time and a place for being a zen master and it ain't always on the footy field. People want Howe back in the side just because he's not afraid to hurt an opponent, if nothing else.
Most of the "silly" free kicks were actually a bias against Sicily, if anything after review that made the umps realize they were being fooled totally and that Sic didn't actually deserve the way they were treating him. It's made the umps wise up to the fact that Sic aint so bad after-all, if 1 positive came out of it.

i was just admitting my bias and why. I hear what you are driving at but I always thought he was treated poorly by the umps and Boltlon knew it and so used the lowest form of attack and if it wasn't "honourable" as you said, how do you maintain/keep respect?

Each to their own pov.

 

[WWSD]

It’s time to unleash Walker.


HF: Walker, Lewis, Gunston

 

[Gohawthorn13]

I suspect we might start to manage a few blokes round about now, particularly given that finals seem almost impossible, no point running older blokes into the ground for a meaningless year (in both senses of the word).

McEvoy looked pretty bloody tired, I wouldn't mind giving Titch a rest unless the continuity is good for him, Shiels has been pretty banged up this year too.

Scrimshaw too if he thinks he needs it? Would rather he gets managed every couple of months than gets injured every couple of games as he is wont to do. CJ an obvious replacement too.

OUT
McEvoy, Scrimshaw, Titch/Shiels (managed), Issie (inj.)
IN
Burgoyne, Patton, CJ, Jones/Finn

is my guess. It's entirely possible we don't think we need to manage anyone given our draw has been pretty forgiving but I think we'll see something like the above happen in the next few weeks.

Pretty forgiving are you kidding other than the bye our draw has been the hardest in the league by a mile.

 

[Dew2KFC2Flag08]

Please drop Ceglar. It’s baffling to me that we gave him the #1 ruck role. McEvoy has always been better. Ceglar is a below average ruck, and almost unplayable in any other position.

McEvoy is a decent ruck (very good (2017/18) and below average in any other position. It’s just nonsensical to me to have Ceglar playing unless your #1 is injured.

Scully must be dropped. One contest against the Dockers summed up his time at us well. He uses his tank to get to the half back flank to give us a 2v1 off our kick in and then doesn’t do anything to help out. No Shepard (forgot the other player was). Freo player kind of just walks out of the contest with Scully looking on. Witches hat. No speed either. Awful, awful pickup.

I can’t see us being any worse off on the scoreboard with any combination of youngsters replacing Ceglar and Scully. Frawley, Shiels etc. I can definitely understand keeping in.

 

[Mrzohs]

Fb:Stratts, Frawley,Scrimshaw
HB:Impey, Frost, Day
C: Scully, Worpel, Jom
Hf:Gunston,Tob,Bruest
FF:Nash, Sicily, Hardwick
R: Mcevoy, Mitch, Wingard
B:,Jones,Finn,Silk/Shiels,Walker/Cj

Emerg Kosi,Jekka,Paton,Howe,

* Trying to keep Gunston fwd with Sicily, you could move Gunners back, Day to the wing, Scully Hff.
-Tob last chance let's see how he goes with Sic next to him. Jekka or Patton to replace.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

Pretty forgiving are you kidding other than the bye our draw has been the hardest in the league by a mile.

well yeah that's exactly what i was referring to, we haven't had to play 3 games in 14 days like a few teams and thus need to manage our players less

 

[kazzooka]

Hmm so when he out marked Hurley in a one on one contest 2 years ago that was a dream of mine? What bullshit.

So your arguement about him not winning 1v1's is that he won one 2 years ago against a player that is inconsistent and often has brain fades and loses contests. Like being pushed off the ball by Worpel. Also i think it may have been a dream, do you have video of it?

 

[user33]

In: Burgoyne, Glass and CJ.

Out: Ceglar, Smith and Scully.

Scully doesn’t deserve to be in the team regardless of Smith’s injury. I think Glass has something to offer and is worth a run.

Hardwick Frawley Stratton
Frost Sicily Scrimshaw
Glass O’Meara Day
Wingard TOB Burgoyne
Breust Gunston Nash
McEvoy Worpel Mitchell

Morrison CJ Shiels Impey

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

If Glass is our best we are in a world of PAIN.

s**t post. Lift, noob.