Preview Round 12 - Sydney vs Melbourne @ The MCG, or How a Footy Club was Murdered

[caesar88]

I just query if he’d develop quicker & flourish playing as a mid, or even as a forward pocket.

He’s a lethal kick with enormous upside, who Hawthorn wanted at pick 4 - but for some reason we’ve been determined to play him in a role he’s clearly not suited to, having never been a defender through his junior years.

We never felt the need to “develop” Warner, Rowbottom or Florent in the backline.

I’m sure Horse has his reasons - I just don’t know what they are. And I hate seeing top talent wasted.

I agree and I think it's definitely time we just get him into the mids and let him develop his game in his preferred position. But it's looking increasingly likely that if we want him playing midfield, it will have to be in the VFL, due to lack of spots in the 22. I'm OK with that. Whether Horse is...

 

[NinjaSwan]

I don't really understand the Campbell obsession here, people complain he's getting played out of position yet want Wicks dropped (which I agree with but for Ronke) ahead of him so he can play even more out of position as a pressure forward, a generally harder role to play than off half-back.

If someone gets injured/suspended I'd bring him in on the wing but he's struggled down back since the first month of the season and with our midfield at full strength there isn't a place for him there right now.

 

[killablood]

I agree and I think it's definitely time we just get him into the mids and let him develop his game in his preferred position. But it's looking increasingly likely that if we want him playing midfield, it will have to be in the VFL, due to lack of spots in the 22. I'm OK with that. Whether Horse is...

If he was to go back to VFL play Mid and dominate or at least show enough to bang the door down, who would he replace in Mids?
I agree he is a midfielder (long term)and shouldn't be anywhere near the backline ever but our midfield is stacked in my opinion which makes me think he should continue to develop at AFL level in a fwd role that the likes of Bell, Ronke and Wicks continue to fill (no big knock on any of them) just my gut feel is he is too talented to play VFL and there is a fairly obvious hole he could fill that suits player and team.

 

[momentbymoment]

I'm fine with him not being in the team if there isn't a place for him. I don't think he's in our best defence at the moment, and there's not really room for him in the mids/wing rotation. So VFL it is. But if it's gonna be VFL for him for the foreseeable future, settle on a position for him and just let him develop and thrive in it. So weird that we're unleashing all these kids in these confident roles and then we're restricting Campbell's role to back pocket small defender or medical sub.

I think Horse really rates him and wants him in the team even though there isn't really a place for him, but he's just stuffing him around atm.

Horse is obsessed with having a champion kicker in defence (Dawson and now Campbell). Personally, I would prefer to see guys who can kick goals, kicking goals.

And guys who can’t (looking at you Sam) playing in defence.

 

[momentbymoment]

If I remember correctly it was North and Suns, looked good in the North game, but barely sighted vs the Suns. So one quiet game was all it took.

Way harsher than on some others.

Anyway, from his RookieMe profile (which matched with reports from the Sydney FL) - which makes me wonder why it's backline or it's nothing:

"In 2019 he often played forward with stints in the midfield, and then in the All-Stars game this year, it was more the opposite where he started on-ball and then went deep forward to be a leading target. It is the former where he is expected to start at AFL level, with his speed on the lead a challenge for any defender. He also knows how to create scoring opportunities in multiple ways, whether it be from a stoppage situation, lead and mark, or a quick kick out of nothing, Campbell knows where the goals are and regularly finds them."

Can’t help but feel that if Campbell started his Swans career forward and Guilden started his in defence, we would now be discussing whether Guilden should start this game or go back to the VFL.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Campbell should ask for a trade.

Chalk up anotheree Horse.

 

[dosser]

Campbell should ask for a trade.

Chalk up anotheree Horse.

Come on GUH, I never thought of you as one of the "I want a pony, and I want it NOW" brigade. You are such a millenial

Campbell needs to do his apprenticeship first so that he can be developed into the star he will become. If we just throw him into the middle now then he may never be able to develop into that footballer that he can potentially be. I trust the staff to know a lot more about developing players than we ever will, and their track record proves it.

Campbell and we just have to be patient, and I'm sure that there is a continual flow of feedback to him as I assume that we desperately want to keep him. Short term pain for long term gain.

 

[Dubai Quacker]

I don't really understand the Campbell obsession here, people complain he's getting played out of position yet want Wicks dropped (which I agree with but for Ronke) ahead of him so he can play even more out of position as a pressure forward, a generally harder role to play than off half-back.

If someone gets injured/suspended I'd bring him in on the wing but he's struggled down back since the first month of the season and with our midfield at full strength there isn't a place for him there right now.

Campbell played forward (and mids) as a junior.

He didn’t play in defence.

Saying "welcome to the AFL, now go play in a completely foreign position" feels a bit like asking ooh-ahh Glen McGrath to open the batting on a green-top against Holding, Garner, Marshall and Walsh.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Come on GUH, I never thought of you as one of the "I want a pony, and I want it NOW" brigade. You are such a millenial

Campbell needs to do his apprenticeship first so that he can be developed into the star he will become. If we just throw him into the middle now then he may never be able to develop into that footballer that he can potentially be. I trust the staff to know a lot more about developing players than we ever will, and their track record proves it.

Campbell and we just have to be patient, and I'm sure that there is a continual flow of feedback to him as I assume that we desperately want to keep him. Short term pain for long term gain.

lol .. I have never been accused of being a millenial.

We watched Mills down back for years. FFS half this Board took the view he did not have the skills to play mids and Horse automatically knew what he was doing.

The kid's kicking technique and temperament saw him slot the goal that got us back in the game. He knew he would not miss. He trudged back with the defenders to his position. He did not smile.

 

[Bloods86]

Can’t help but feel that if Campbell started his Swans career forward and Guilden started his in defence, we would now be discussing whether Guilden should start this game or go back to the VFL.

IDK, I think I'd be saying, well if you play a kid out of position and he isn't meeting expectations, maybe try him in the position(s) you drafted him at (Campbell - fwd/mid) and see how it goes. Shouldn't be rocket science. I still feel the main issue this week in particular is some favouritism for Wicks. If he's out, then it'd be choice between Ronke or Campbell I'd imagine. I'd have stuck with Campbell.

 

[Wheresbuddy]

This whole notion that Wicks is in to provide some "pressure" role is rubbish. When has this become a specific position such that you don't have to touch the ball, kick goals or even make too many tackles as long as you are "applying pressure". Does it mean no one else has to "apply pressure" because Wicks is doing it all? Seriously, the whole bloody forward line along with mids pushing forward all should be tackling and applying pressure. Too many excuses for guys like Wicks and Bell. Both are below AFL standard, don't get enough of the ball and in Wicks case, ill disciplined. It is clear guys like Stephens, Ronke and Campbell have more footy sense and ability in their little fingers than these two.

FFS play Campbell. Park him at half forward where he can use his talent. He will make a few tackles, apply "pressure" but also win us a few games, along with the rest of our forward line.

Rant over.

 

[caesar88]

lol .. I have never been accused of being a millenial.

We watched Mills down back for years. FFS half this Board took the view he did not have the skills to play mids and Horse automatically knew what he was doing.

The kid's kicking technique and temperament saw him slot the goal that got us back in the game. He knew he would not miss. He trudged back with the defenders to his position. He did not smile.

After Hewett, we should never have full faith in Horse again.

Faith, yes. Blind faith, no.

Even the best coaches can get things wrong and I think this might be one of those times. Other than getting some valuable experience with the pace of the game at the highest level, I'm not entirely sure how Campbell's first year and a half in the system has helped his game. We should just start over with him. Play him in mids in the VFL as if he's a brand new draftee and let him develop in the role we'll hopefully see him flourish in for the next decade or more.

Campbell as "next mid in" when an injury arises sounds good to me.

 

[Nuggetz]

I'd try to matchup heeney onto langdon. imo langdon is an underrated gun, tracca/oliver/gawn might get the accolades but langdon just does it all as a wingman. He ends up being an extra player within the arcs when he's pushing forward or back because opposition players can't keep up with him.

I don't know who else would have the elite endurance to match his running capacity and then skills to make him accountable. Possibly jmac? but i just don't think Langdon would care much if Jmac pushed forward whenever Langdon is running back into defence to help the defenders.

IMO Heeney has the running capacity, skills and defensive pressure to make Langdon accountable and not act as spare when pushing hard into forward 50 or defensive 50.

 

[Bloods86]

I'd try to matchup heeney onto langdon. imo langdon is an underrated gun, tracca/oliver/gawn might get the accolades but langdon just does it all as a wingman. He ends up being an extra player within the arcs when he's pushing forward or back because opposition players can't keep up with him.

I don't know who else would have the elite endurance to match his running capacity and then skills to make him accountable. Possibly jmac? but i just don't think Langdon would care much if Jmac pushed forward whenever Langdon is running back into defence to help the defenders.

IMO Heeney has the running capacity, skills and defensive pressure to make Langdon accountable and not act as spare when pushing hard into forward 50 or defensive 50.

This reminds me of the time we used Heeney on Sloane in 2017, it wasn't that successful, though the elderly lady behind me screaming "leave Rory alone!" was funny. Why would we waste Heeney, who we need kicking goals and scaring their defence, particularly in the absence of Buddy, in a run with role?

If you're going to make Langdon accountable, just go with Florent.

 

[Dubai Quacker]

I just can’t stop feeling annoyed that Campbell has been left out.

If we’re going to win a flag - he’s going to be an important part of it.

A prospectively elite talent that we’ve played entirely out of position ….. and now he’s officially dumped.

There’s no way that’s a successful outcome.

Sure, he’ll be back - but at it stands, I feel it’s a failure on the club’s part.

 

[Nuggetz]

This reminds me of the time we used Heeney on Sloane in 2017, it wasn't that successful, though the elderly lady behind me screaming "leave Rory alone!" was funny. Why would we waste Heeney, who we need kicking goals and scaring their defence, particularly in the absence of Buddy, in a run with role?

If you're going to make Langdon accountable, just go with Florent.

Because if we can't win the ball then Heeney isn't going to get it in the forward line. Heeney 2017 is different to Heeney 2022. Florent doesn't have the tank nor defensive capability to go with Langdon nor the offensive ability to make him accountable either.

 

[Kiama Chris]

I'd try to matchup heeney onto langdon. imo langdon is an underrated gun, tracca/oliver/gawn might get the accolades but langdon just does it all as a wingman. He ends up being an extra player within the arcs when he's pushing forward or back because opposition players can't keep up with him.

I don't know who else would have the elite endurance to match his running capacity and then skills to make him accountable. Possibly jmac? but i just don't think Langdon would care much if Jmac pushed forward whenever Langdon is running back into defence to help the defenders.

IMO Heeney has the running capacity, skills and defensive pressure to make Langdon accountable and not act as spare when pushing hard into forward 50 or defensive 50.

Good post. Worth discussing.
I actually think JMac can get it done and prefer to see Heeney on the loose. He's not great a run with roles from what I recall.

 

[dosser]

Because if we can't win the ball then Heeney isn't going to get it in the forward line. Heeney 2017 is different to Heeney 2022. Florent doesn't have the tank nor defensive capability to go with Langdon nor the offensive ability to make him accountable either.

For what it is worth, JMac should be on Langdon because he has a bit of a running pedigree. One article written about him said "As a year 12 student McInerney clocked a sub-52 second time for 400m and finished second in a major schools championship in Melbourne.

His GPS numbers for game day running and high-speed efforts were spectacular as he doubled the repeat speed efforts of West Coast Eagles flyer Jack Petruccelle, and was the only player in the program to hit real high-speed effort. He was alite."

Personally, I would prefer he was elite, but we take what we can get.

 

[Dan87]

I just can’t stop feeling annoyed that Campbell has been left out.

If we’re going to win a flag - he’s going to be an important part of it.

A prospectively elite talent that we’ve played entirely out of position ….. and now he’s officially dumped.

There’s no way that’s a successful outcome.

Sure, he’ll be back - but at it stands, I feel it’s a failure on the club’s part.

The club's job is to win

Not carry "elite" juniors

It's a whole different ball game and Campbell will be alright

 

[SGBeach]

Good post. Worth discussing.
I actually think JMac can get it done and prefer to see Heeney on the loose. He's not great a run with roles from what I recall.

Yep agree JMac could nullify Langdon. Could also be a positive for JMac as hes been a bit out of form the last few games, and may give him a role to 100% focus on.
Heeney (who's also been down for a few weeks) has got to be close to having another big game - worth giving him that chance

 

[Bloods86]

Because if we can't win the ball then Heeney isn't going to get it in the forward line. Heeney 2017 is different to Heeney 2022. Florent doesn't have the tank nor defensive capability to go with Langdon nor the offensive ability to make him accountable either.

I don't know if there's evidence that Heeney has a bigger tank than Florent? Nor a better tagging game. Florent has just been played in the backline, and did ok, so I don't know why that isn't a positive here. Yeah, he (Florent) probably can't hurt offensively as much, but Isaac's field kicking hasn't been great, so it'd only be around goal. Just feel like we'd be robbing our biggest offensive weapon, that could turn a game against the Dees defence.

 

[Dan87]

You play Campbell in the mids right now he'll straight up get bullied. At half back he can contribute. He might end up like a Daniel Rich

10

Daniel Rich

Age

33

Ht

183cm

Wt

95kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.7

5star

K

12.6

5star

HB

7.0

4star

M

3.4

3star

T

3.2

5star

MG

430.3

5star

D

14.9

4star

K

13.1

5star

HB

1.8

1star

M

3.8

4star

T

1.0

2star

MG

384.3

5star

D

16.2

4star

K

10.4

4star

HB

5.8

4star

M

2.6

3star

T

5.2

5star

type. He's out this week because he's playing poorly

It's all good

 

[Bloods86]

For what it is worth, JMac should be on Langdon because he has a bit of a running pedigree. One article written about him said "As a year 12 student McInerney clocked a sub-52 second time for 400m and finished second in a major schools championship in Melbourne.

His GPS numbers for game day running and high-speed efforts were spectacular as he doubled the repeat speed efforts of West Coast Eagles flyer Jack Petruccelle, and was the only player in the program to hit real high-speed effort. He was alite."

Personally, I would prefer he was elite, but we take what we can get.

If you're running someone with Langdon, you'd probably go someone with a bit more of a defensive game. JMac is one of our least defensive players. Again, I don't know why we'd be sacrificing an offensive weapon, JMac or Heeney, in roles they haven't shown any promise in before.

 

[Bloods86]

You play Campbell in the mids right now he'll straight up get bullied. At half back he can contribute. He might end up like a Daniel Rich type. He's out this week because he's playing poorly

It's all good

He can contribute in the forward line. Which is his most natural position, based on history. He got set up last week by others. It's just dumb to put a kid in a position they never really played, then when they make mistakes, go "no place for you!". While we've got others who aren't in form, doing dumb undisciplined acts, still getting picked.

 

[Dan87]

He can contribute in the forward line. Which is his most natural position, based on history. He got set up last week by others. It's just dumb to put a kid in a position they never really played, then when they make mistakes, go "no place for you!". While we've got others who aren't in form, doing dumb undisciplined acts, still getting picked.

Our forward line is stacked and our best line

He's being played at half back because he might have a best 22 spot there--essential for a long career--and his game suits it

Wicks is a little bull and takes heat and has some marking ability. This doesn't describe Campbell, even though Campbell will probably be a better player

Players play roles