Review Round 13, 2020 - Brisbane Lions vs. St. Kilda

[bain22]

will be against the Tigers in the Granny. And every fan of football will rejoice

We can only hope.
I think the bye will be the greatest mental break possible. Perfect timing.
Once they return the tide will turn.

 

[Dylan12]

Started to listen to Fages Pressor where he was asked about the kicking for goal and he made the glib reply that "we are working on it and will continue to work on it."

The obvious questions to follow up

1. What have you been doing?
2. Do you admit it shows no improvement?
3. Should you do something else?

This is a real, clearly definable problem and we have no evidence that the club is doing anything about it. The journalists are not going to ask anything that will ruffle our coaches feathers.

Have you seen the numpty's asking questions at Fagan's pressers?

In addition to most commentators, journos (questionable in of itself) and other footy media, you'd be forgiven that these people are professionals such is their incompetence and meekness to AFL coaches and want to avoid getting on their wrong side by asking the tough questions and questions a lot of fans want to hear answers to.

 

[mpal6]

Without going back and looking at past games I thought Hipwood straightened his approach considerably today. To me that is the right thing, but he missed his first and lost confidence in it all and started to try to place the ball. Two weeks might do him the world of good on the training paddock.

Probably more relevant to the 'yips' thread,but if I was in charge of set-shot practice Id be encouraging fewer steps in run-up. If you're shooting from 25 but start your run-up at 50 then the goals look a lot smaller and the run-up is unnatural to every other Aussie Rules kicking skill you practice.

It’s the big thing for us to overcome this year - we are the real deal

Fewer steps is an interesting observation - something I think about a lot as well. It goes back to watching Jarryd Roughead kicking action back in the day, he changed it to a distinct one or two step action in one of the seasons where it seems to have made a huge difference for him.

Looks like he's done a pretty good job at saints too so far.

Mind games: How will Roughy get his Saints to kick straight?

Jarryd Roughead has made his presence felt at St Kilda already, sharing tips to improve the Saints' wayward goalkicking

www.afl.com.au

 

[Johnny Bananas]

All those waking Zorks need to remember that he is playing injured this year and only an extended layoff will fix his issues!

If that's the case, then I hope he spends a few weeks on the sidelines. Even if we lose a couple of games, I'd take that if it meant we get Zorks at full fitness in the finals.

 

[FLVanLandingham]

Charles will be better off for the long break. Don't know if I'm reading too much into it, but for that pocket goal he didn't do his usual several steps off the mark. The mark where he kicked it off to McCluggage, he kind of hopped off one foot after the mark. (On that note McCluggage is looking a lot better for his kicking, two of his misses were posters)

Don't know if Hodgey was just trying to be kind to us, but he mentioned the wind swirling around the ground several times. I suppose there are not wind tracking style charts within the gabba stadium available? I would love to have an excuse for our kicking

 

[LongLion]

For people disliking this post, does he stay in the side on form or what?

Absolutely stays. Other players had ordinary games and you are not calling them our week after week. Give it a rest. He is clearly our best option.

 

[LongLion]

The Diabolical game was last week.

Much better endeavour this week, finishing Terrible.
Saints were great at spreading from the contest but our defence was up to it this week.

Fullarton is definitely a keeper. The ground work and snap from the pack was awesome but just bounced wide unfortunately. I like him as as a permanent option up forward. He competed in the ruck, not sure if he won a tap all night though, maybe 1?

Good to get the win, looking forward to the Collingwood game already.

Go Lions

Seem to remember he won one in the middle and we scored a goal out of it. Might be wrong though

 

[dlanod]

Re goalkicking these guys are all professionals, they'd be getting every bit of help required, it's really on them. I'm not clued up enough to know what would help except to say has Hipwood ever watched Franklin ? Likewise McStay. Left footers who take set shots with a straight run up invariably seem to spray it. All the great left footers run up via their natural arc and swing into the ball connect. Like they do with field kicks. Just my amateur observation.

Interesting observation. Hipwood definitely seems to be a better shot on goal further out - maybe that's linked to his run up at those lengths, where he does take an arc to "wind up" instead of a short straight jog.

 

[M Malice]

Some amazing in depth investigative journalism from Shane Crawford on Full Time when critiquing our chances of a flag this season, "they will need to kick goals to win finals". Mmmm well butter my butt and call me a biscuit, who would have thunk it, Shane has found the key to unlock finals success, I'm going to link that advice in an email to Fages and he can get to work on it.

 

[3KZ is Football]

They should try hypnosis.

Years ago I was doing an AFL Coaches course at Kardinia Park and we had a session with Malcolm Blight who was, amongst other things, talking about the mental process involved when taking a set shot. It was interesting because the process was all about closing out the sound of the crowd and before you had your shot slowing your breathing and visualising the ball drop, connection and the sight of the ball going straight through the middle. Made perfect sense in terms of concentration and focus in that moment. It is a different sort of training, because most of the other skills rely on instinct and reflex. This is something we should increase our focus on, because the players are looking defeated before they have even had their shot. I think dlanod might have made the observation, but it is not just that they are missing, but how horribly they are missing from close in. When you have a key forward(s) regularly splitting the goal and point posts instead of the big sticks from 25 - 30 metres out you have a problem that won’t go away by itself. Perhaps it’s time to address the psychological aspect, because you would have to think they have tried the bio-mechanical components already.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

This stuff possibly belongs in the "yips" thread, but in a simplistic sense, set-shot mechanics is all about balance and momentum. At risk of stating the bleeding obvious, there's a few things that are complete no-no's. Not being balanced and slowing down through the ball-strike will just kill the likelihood of connecting with the ball properly. There's fundamentally nothing wrong with not kicking as hard as you might normally, or leaning back, or not running in quickly. It's the combination of those things that gets you unbalanced and is likely to result in poor momentum.

If our players are coached in this kind of stuff, they aren't putting it into practice during the game. Or perhaps they're being over-coached and it's confusing their natural instinct. Like 3KZ is Football states above, training for set shot kicking seems to be different and there is a definitely a visualisation aspect. I found it interesting that some junior golf coaches teach the really young ones about the finishing position - that if you finish your swing in the correct position, then it's more than likely you'll have hit the shot correctly. That's overly simplistic of course, but I'd be interesting to know if the kicking whisperers that are used around the league teach similar things.

 

[Lions Flag 2020]

The thing I like about Fullarton is that he didn’t look out of place in his first game playing against a top 5 team. Also, I recon he really benefited from playing in a strong NEAFL team last year - running to right areas, composure to finish the play, taking the right handball option x2, etc. Even his first shot at goal wasn’t a horrible kick like so many others do on their first ever set shot.

 

[MacMum]

Years ago I was doing an AFL Coaches course at Kardinia Park and we had a session with Malcolm Blight who was, amongst other things, talking about the mental process involved when taking a set shot. It was interesting because the process was all about closing out the sound of the crowd and before you had your shot slowing your breathing and visualising they ball drop, connection and the sight of the ball going straight through the middle. Made perfect sense in terms of concentration and focus in that moment. If us a different sort of training, because most of the other skills rely on instinct and reflex. This is something we should increase our focus on, because the players are looking defeated before they have even had their shot. I think dlanod might have made the observation, but it is not just that they are missing, bug how horribly they are missing from close in. When you have a key forward(s) regularly splitting the goal and point posts instead of the big sticks from 25 - 30 metres out you have a problem that won’t go away by itself. Perhaps it’s time to address the psychological aspect, because you would have to think they have tried the bio-mechanical components already.

Interesting you mention Malcolm Blight....I heard him a few weeks ago on radio talking about the piece of covering to go over players shoes so as to help with goal kicking. Some clubs were trying it out in training, we were one of them apparently (it hasn't worked for us)......anyhow he thought it was hogwash as all the players had to to do was tie their laces to the side of shoe and not on top.

His reasoning was that when they drop the ball on to the boot if the ball hits the knot it would deflect it in another direction..

....kind of made sense. Then again do the players have shoes with laces or velcro these days?

 

[Kernel Kurtz]

Yet through poor positioning probably cost us a few goals. He is nowhere near the Robbo we need in the team.

Would like to see Keidian come in and run the wing , time for speed and a better kick.

 

[Ceebee]

1. Why does Fagan have to explain everything we're doing to fix goal kicking?

2. We kicked 14.8 against the dogs (not counting rushed behinds) which is above AFL average. Against Essendon we kicked 14.6 - also above AFL average. Yes we've had games that have been awful when it comes to accuracy, but if anything that shows how improvement can happen one week and fall off the next. Given how little the players are allowed to train together - not to mention the little time to train pressure situations - it would be an incredibly difficult thing to consistently fix this year.

3. In the past two years we have tried two different goal kicking coaches. Given the tightness of funds and the lack of time training together, I'd love to hear what you'd suggest the club do to fix the issue.

Difficult to coach confidence in goal kicking, it’s a mind thing. When the confidence comes back , the kicking will improve .It will happen

 

[mpal6]

Difficult to coach confidence in goal kicking, it’s a mind thing. When the confidence comes back , the kicking will improve .It will happen

Let them all practice goal kicking with their "happy place" song on repeat on their wireless headphones.

Let instinct take over for the rest of the season, no overthinking just be in their happy zone - they can do it !!

 

[luthor]

I think Fages is right to acknowledge the problem and say we continue to work on it.

I don't know what the psychologists say about it but I would think that the more the topic is dwelt on and analysed to death, the more the problem may become entrenched in the players minds.


On SM-G973F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Cockliff38]

Biggest positive is some key guys turning around their form - Berry was outstanding, McCluggage, while not back to his absolute best was great, and I thought Gardiner was really strong in what has been an up-and-down year from him (unlucky to gift Marshall a goal with that holding call).

I've been harsh on Mitch Robbo this year but I thought he was better today too. Granted 6 touches doesn't look good on the stat sheet but he had some important contests today.

 

[M Malice]

I think Fages is right to acknowledge the problem and say we continue to work on it.

I don't know what the psychologists say about it but I would think that the more the topic is dwelt on and analysed to death, the more the problem may become entrenched in the players minds.


On SM-G973F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Yer what if I told you- Don't think about a pink elephant.

 

[LIONS08]

If that's the case, then I hope he spends a few weeks on the sidelines. Even if we lose a couple of games, I'd take that if it meant we get Zorks at full fitness in the finals.

Its more in the ‘months of rest’ bracket. He said last month his work load will have to be managed and he probably won’t be able to train anywhere near as much.

 

[morsie]

Excuse these musings from an old timer but Hipwood causes me to recall an old footy book written by Lou Richards.He had a chapter on Don Mopsy Fraser, a famous and feared centrehalfback for Richmond in the 50s. Fraser started out in the forward line and was playing St Kilda one day matched up on Keith Miller.At half time Fraser had scored 1 goal 7 behinds.His captain and coach Jack Dyer had one response "ratbags to the backline".Fraser did not play forward ever again and excelled in the back half.
i could really see Hipwood at CHB.

 

[mpal6]

It's refreshing to note that we are "kicking yips" away from having a decent go at a premiership. Not bad for a 2017 wooden spooner, not bad at all !!

This got me looking and was surprised to find Fitzroy won the 1916 wooden spoon and premiership !

1916 VFL season - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[martinson]

Excuse these musings from an old timer but Hipwood causes me to recall an old footy book written by Lou Richards.He had a chapter on Don Mopsy Fraser, a famous and feared centrehalfback for Richmond in the 50s. Fraser started out in the forward line and was playing St Kilda one day matched up on Keith Miller.At half time Fraser had scored 1 goal 7 behinds.His captain and coach Jack Dyer had one response "ratbags to the backline".Fraser did not play forward ever again and excelled in the back half.
i could really see Hipwood at CHB.

When the game was slower you could just about put away the glasses when certain players had a kick anywhere inside 40m . Good players didn't miss easy shots very often. Now you're on tenterhooks until it splits the middle.

 

[lionshine]

I think Fages is right to acknowledge the problem and say we continue to work on it.

I don't know what the psychologists say about it but I would think that the more the topic is dwelt on and analysed to death, the more the problem may become entrenched in the players minds.


On SM-G973F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Exactly. For those wanting Fagan to adamantly state it as a problem in the press conference, what are you hoping that will achieve? I can tell you what that will do, it will cement it in the players minds as an issue. Ever heard of the power of positive reinforcement? Any professional coach in any sport(AFL, Soccer, basketball ect.) will tell you that you should never say things like "Don't miss". The word "miss" gets sent straight from the subconscious mind to the conscious and has the player thinking about exactly what they shouldn't be. They are obviously working on it behind closed doors. The players have the skill, but you can tell every time we kick a behind the pressure builds within the whole team as opposed to just that individual. It is becoming a self fulfilling prophecy for the entire squad. The best thing Fagan and the coaches can do rather than dwelling on it and labelling it as a big issue that needs rectification is continuing to build up the players confidence and belief in their skill level, harp on that with vigour and borderline aggression. Drill into the players minds that they are the best and most confident players in front of goal league wide and watch the tide start to turn.

 

[dlanod]

It's refreshing to note that we are "kicking yips" away from having a decent go at a premiership. Not bad for a 2017 wooden spooner, not bad at all !!

This got me looking and was surprised to find Fitzroy won the 1916 wooden spoon and premiership !

1916 VFL season - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

One of my favourite stats.