Autopsy Round 13, 2021: St.Kilda v Adelaide

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Or the truth is somewhere in the middle of the two, she has blown it up and the club has spun it to play it down. At the end of the day the leak is still the more disappointing part of the whole thing. The last thing they needed was another drama to start having to hose down.
But you don’t know what was said. What if the person who spoke to someone who I don’t believe to be Caro was told everything that finnis said today? Yep upset they wanted to go but left with our blessing. No story there but what if Caro was only told the first part or chose only to say the first part. Then there is a story. My point is there is no leak if the full story is told because it’s actually no story.
 
Gotta say I agree.

Discussion of a 'debate' around him leaving sounds like we did a bit more than simply ask if there was anything we could do to help him stay
I think if a bunch of managers sat around having a discussion about the hows, why’s and when’s of Seb leaving happened it would be absolutely no different to any standard resourcing meeting.
As much as I advocate for letting him go this is just process and there is nothing to it.
 

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Part of the story is true but where is the other part that they left with our blessing. I know where it is. Not there because if that is added there is no story.
Fair enough. I think once the decision was made the club were always going to tell them they had the blessing. They can't make them stay.

We will never know hard the club worked to make them stay though and Finnis was always going to play it down.
 
Yeh, IF there was a leak as in if someone did say "we didnt want them to go and we dont support it and people at the club are pretty dirty on them" i agree that is an issue. Both in the sense that there was a leak and also that we have a senior staffer who thinks that way.

I still firmly think its more what George is saying and Caro and crew have beaten this thing into a story but i get your point and agree with it.


I agree but I still think it's not unreasonable to expect your players to show up to games unless there are exceptional circumstances. If there was family issue they could easily have just said he's stepping out for personal issues and no-one would have even questioned it. It becomes and go zone and it would have been left there. There are plenty of people who would wonder if 5 weeks after the birth that there is an undeniable right to have time off footy.

It might sound old fashioned but in a competitive industry where wins and losses are literally make or break for careers, club fortunes, sponsorship etc. Then stepping aside is nearly the last resort stuff. If we were on top of the ladder there is a lot less pressure on everyone and the club probably can afford to let players go. When we are literally hanging by a fingernail and the whole club is under severe pressure it is imperative that we give ourselves every chance at a win.

It will be interesting to see if we off load Seb next year after all the backing his decision in IMO. I wouldn't be surprised if it's bigger issue than Finnis let on.
 
But you don’t know what was said. What if the person who spoke to someone who I don’t believe to be Caro was told everything that finnis said today? Yep upset they wanted to go but left with our blessing. No story there but what if Caro was only told the first part or chose only to say the first part. Then there is a story. My point is there is no leak if the full story is told because it’s actually no story.


You don't know either, what if a disgruntled assistant knew his job just ended because we couldn't field a fit side and in a pissed-off mood rang Caro. Lots of potential hypotheticals that we won't ever know about isn't there. The club did what was expected and hosed it down though and that's all you can do.
 
Fair enough. I think once the decision was made the club were always going to tell them they had the blessing. They can't make them stay.

We will never know hard the club worked to make them stay though and Finnis was always going to play it down.
Or tell the truth. As you say we won’t know. I will go with the club because if it as bad as Caro made out she would have a bigger go at club. He Main go was at the players for some weird reason.
 
I agree but I still think it's not unreasonable to expect your players to show up to games unless there are exceptional circumstances. If there was family issue they could easily have just said he's stepping out for personal issues and no-one would have even questioned it. It becomes and go zone and it would have been left there. There are plenty of people who would wonder if 5 weeks after the birth that there is an undeniable right to have time off footy.

It might sound old fashioned but in a competitive industry where wins and losses are literally make or break for careers, club fortunes, sponsorship etc. Then stepping aside is nearly the last resort stuff. If we were on top of the ladder there is a lot less pressure on everyone and the club probably can afford to let players go. When we are literally hanging by a fingernail and the whole club is under severe pressure it is imperative that we give ourselves every chance at a win.

It will be interesting to see if we off load Seb next year after all the backing his decision in IMO. I wouldn't be surprised if it's bigger issue than Finnis let on.
It’s not unreasonable. I’m pretty sure he’s not heading home for a holiday.
It really comes back to the discussion about trusting employees. Does anyone really think Seb would have asked if he didn’t need to be with his family? I don’t.
 
You don't know either, what if a disgruntled assistant knew his job just ended because we couldn't field a fit side and in a pissed-off mood rang Caro. Lots of potential hypotheticals that we won't ever know about isn't there. The club did what was expected and hosed it down though and that's all you can do.
Or as said told the truth. I don’t even bel red I’ve she heard from the saints. A third party is my guess. As I said why didn’t she have a real go at the club if completely true. She was more than happy to have a go at the players. Story has more holes in it than my jocks.
 
Fair enough

I'm not going to argue but that's not what I got out of the interview this morning.

I agree with you George that her views are outdated and that's where she let herself down, not on her reporting of the story though.

I'll leave it there because I don't really care.
You are spot. Clearly she was right re her reporting.

her views - not some have
 
I apologise if that offended you mate, that wasn't my intention.

IMO thought it was easy to tell which part of her comments were from "sources" and which parts were her opinion.

I'm not a Carro fan. She always looks to find stories like this rather than report on the game. But I don't think she is a liar.

Champion

Cheers mate, no worries, just threw in the champ to be a troll ;)
 
When a club is going as badly as ours is, you don't need to look too hard to work out an angle for the paper. Im sure there was an internal conversation on it, but the fact is they were allowed to go/ stay home. If they were 'coerced' to play and we lost, the story would be that we are stuck in the past with no progressive policies regarding player welfare. We're doing badly, so journo's look to why, seized on this tidbit and ran with it. Footy Media 101.
 

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You are spot. Clearly she was right re her reporting.

her views - not some have
Was she right. Seems she was only partly right and if you add the end of the story there is no story. I will say it again. The bigger story should have been Stkilda but she makes Ross the bigger story. Maybe she wasn’t sure of all the info regarding Stkilda. The Stkilda story would have been so much bigger had it finished with them being disappointed they left. She brushes over that and basically attacks Ross.
 
It’s not unreasonable. I’m pretty sure he’s not heading home for a holiday.
It really comes back to the discussion about trusting employees. Does anyone really think Seb would have asked if he didn’t need to be with his family? I don’t.

When we had this last lockdown, someone was talking on SEN about how the hubs wouldn't happen again because plenty of players have told the AFLPA that they would not go into them again and would stay home. My first thought was that Seb didn't want to go in case he was stuck in Queensland and it was potentially going to be hard to get home. Not necessarily about 1 week.

Anyway, this season is done any way, might as well start concentrating on who we draft so that guys like Seb and Membrey get pushed out to depth so that we can become a premiership side instead of a bottom 4 side. Both are good but not great and until we have pushed players like them to the fringes we will be making up the numbers.
 
When we had this last lockdown, someone was talking on SEN about how the hubs wouldn't happen again because plenty of players have told the AFLPA that they would not go into them again and would stay home. My first thought was that Seb didn't want to go in case he was stuck in Queensland and it was potentially going to be hard to get home. Not necessarily about 1 week.

Anyway, this season is done any way, might as well start concentrating on who we draft so that guys like Seb and Membrey get pushed out to depth so that we can become a premiership side instead of a bottom 4 side. Both are good but not great and until we have pushed players like them to the fringes we will be making up the numbers.
I think that is fair enough, AFL players didnt sign up for hubs and having a mate working at a footy club last year was not the holiday for them that many seem to think. We all made a little bit of fun about the "heroic" sacrifice the players made last yeat but for many it would have been very trying and if there is some residual concern from players about that this year i cant blame them.

Fact is (especially in Sebs case) he took less than a week for the birth of his twins, then went up to Sydney for 2 weeks, his wife stayed home fresh off giving birth with little support in a lockdown state. I cant imagine how difficult that would be for them all and its absolutely not what footy players sign up for.
 
Was she right. Seems she was only partly right and if you add the end of the story there is no story. I will say it again. The bigger story should have been Stkilda but she makes Ross the bigger story. Maybe she wasn’t sure of all the info regarding Stkilda. The Stkilda story would have been so much bigger had it finished with them being disappointed they left. She brushes over that and basically attacks Ross.
Plugger - the issue here isn’t Ross and Membrey leaving and the club okaying it.

it never was and never should have been.

the issue is that our club spoke to Caroline Wilson about internal discussions - she then copped dogs abuse. But she wasn’t lying.
 
Plugger - the issue here isn’t Ross and Membrey leaving and the club okaying it.

it never was and never should have been.

the issue is that our club spoke to Caroline Wilson about internal discussions - she then copped dogs abuse. But she wasn’t lying.

No thats not right, Caro is copping abuse now as she has put her opinion out there and its antiquated.

She chose to editorialise the story and then doubled down with the old "im just saying what everyone is thinking".

Im still far from convinced that she got the story she thinks she got but the abuse shes getting now has nothing to do with that and everything to do with her archaic views on players and families.
 
When we had this last lockdown, someone was talking on SEN about how the hubs wouldn't happen again because plenty of players have told the AFLPA that they would not go into them again and would stay home. My first thought was that Seb didn't want to go in case he was stuck in Queensland and it was potentially going to be hard to get home. Not necessarily about 1 week.

Anyway, this season is done any way, might as well start concentrating on who we draft so that guys like Seb and Membrey get pushed out to depth so that we can become a premiership side instead of a bottom 4 side. Both are good but not great and until we have pushed players like them to the fringes we will be making up the numbers.
Membery pushed out. Are we all of a sudden going to be top 4. For some reason you have been against him this year. He has been bloody good. Certainly not the reason for a crap year. And I thought you said Ross has also had a good year. You don’t have to have all stars in a side even to win a flag. Both those players are good enough to play in very good sides especially if you have set role for them.
 
Membery pushed out. Are we all of a sudden going to be top 4. For some reason you have been against him this year. He has been bloody good. Certainly not the reason for a crap year. And I thought you said Ross has also had a good year. You don’t have to have all stars in a side even to win a flag. Both those players are good enough to play in very good sides especially if you have set role for them.
I suspect that Ross will be Nathan Jones esque by the time were challenging for a flag. Older, fringe best 22 etc.
 
Plugger - the issue here isn’t Ross and Membrey leaving and the club okaying it.

it never was and never should have been.

the issue is that our club spoke to Caroline Wilson about internal discussions - she then copped dogs abuse. But she wasn’t lying.
Firstly we haven’t got a clue to club spoke her. Could be a third party but secondly if they did and told the whole story then it isn’t a worry the club spoke to her. With the whole story it isn’t a story. I think you would be shocked how many club people speak to journalists
 
I suspect that Ross will be Nathan Jones esque by the time were challenging for a flag. Older, fringe best 22 etc.
Not doubting that at all but that’s timing not ability. Mcqualter and eddy played in 2 grand finals. I think those other 2 have them covered. Just need to find a role for certain players.
 
No thats not right, Caro is copping abuse now as she has put her opinion out there and its antiquated.

She chose to editorialise the story and then doubled down with the old "im just saying what everyone is thinking".

Im still far from convinced that she got the story she thinks she got but the abuse shes getting now has nothing to do with that and everything to do with her archaic views on players and families.


I just think the backlash against her is just as crazy as the article. I must be old fashioned but to me being at the birth of a child is important but they sign on to play 23 rounds and finals and unless it's absolutely necessary it should be the norm. It's not a normal workplace and never will be it's not just a competitive environment it's literally a competition.

Players are expected to play even when life gets in the way, when injury limits performance, when weddings are on or friends have birthdays etc. The pandemic makes it a little bit different and there are always things to flex around. Paddy Ryder hadn't seen his kids for months, had been locked out of WA during the off season and was probably contemplating his footy future. He was probably never expected to be a 23 game a season player when we got him. I could see how hard that would be and the reason for giving him time out.

There should be allowances for situations like this under special circumstances but the god given right to time off doesn't fit with the nature of competitive sport. I'm all for progressive but not for open season on taking time off for anything that players see fit to take it off for. It's quite normal for the side to agree on a charter of what they expect from each other and make a commitment, I still think that would be a logical way to make this a non issue.
 
I just think the backlash against her is just as crazy as the article. I must be old fashioned but to me being at the birth of a child is important but they sign on to play 23 rounds and finals and unless it's absolutely necessary it should be the norm. It's not a normal workplace and never will be it's not just a competitive environment it's literally a competition.

Players are expected to play even when life gets in the way, when injury limits performance, when weddings are on or friends have birthdays etc. The pandemic makes it a little bit different and there are always things to flex around. Paddy Ryder hadn't seen his kids for months, had been locked out of WA during the off season and was probably contemplating his footy future. He was probably never expected to be a 23 game a season player when we got him. I could see how hard that would be and the reason for giving him time out.

There should be allowances for situations like this under special circumstances but the god given right to time off doesn't fit with the nature of competitive sport. I'm all for progressive but not for open season on taking time off for anything that players see fit to take it off for. It's quite normal for the side to agree on a charter of what they expect from each other and make a commitment, I still think that would be a logical way to make this a non issue.
It is their right though. Yes you are old fashioned. And if you are talking when they signed up well then they didn’t sign up to hubs. She deserves everything she is getting as long as people aren’t personal. Her views are terrible. Just come out and say they shouldn’t have gone home. You making enough excuses for her to suggest that’s what you think. Fine if that’s the case. It’s just not the way things should be done in 2021.
 

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