Autopsy Round 13, 2022: Dockers breakdown the Hawks

[Topiary]

It's not the attitude that those within the walls at HFC will take.
It's the attitude our supporters can believe in BECAUSE the HFC has shown it will not take shortcuts in attitude, ambition, and effort.
The 'we're Hawthorn' confidence is real for the faithful. It has been executed for nearly 60 years now, and the relentless hunger for more drives all who wear the Gold and Brown. Our Club has always been ambitious and ruthless in aiming and planning it's success, and should we sense that changing those in charge will not for long be at the helm.

This I like very much and as I have said on these pages and other forums to my detriment, success is expected at Hawthorn and ruthlessly pursued. At least it has in the past and I suspect if this ambition is broken by the current incumbents then they will be out the door.

 

[lethalselbow]

Nothing is funnier than player comparisons from 30+ years ago.

Your comment is pretty funny and arrogant. Is there a time stamp on player comparisons? 5 years? 10 years? 20 years? Please share

 

[Sixpence]

Your comment is pretty funny and arrogant. Is there a time stamp on player comparisons? 5 years? 10 years? 20 years? Please share

How is it arrogant? 30 years ago, you could get by with a 190cm ruck. Now 200cm rucks are bordering on short. Same deal with KPPs.

 

[lethalselbow]

How is it arrogant? 30 years ago, you could get by with a 190cm ruck. Now 200cm rucks are bordering on short. Same deal with KPPs.

Reads to me like someone having a laugh at someone for comparing players from different periods of time.

Sizes are probably all relative to the ages.

 

[Roger Rogerson]

Those writing off Callow after three games should take a look at the 1991 GF, where a largely unheralded and undersized forward with great hands who can pinch hit in the ruck, takes apart the opposition and leaves the ground wearing a Hawthorn jumper and the NSM.

Yes it is early days for Callow. Some on here seem to think he has not produced any positive signs which is not correct. His 2nd Q was ok and if he kicks that goal his confidence goes up a notch.

He has shown at AFL level that he can get in front and be a strong target. What seems to to have shown up is that the AFL defenders are taller and stronger than VFL so he is able to take more of these at VFL but he has still taken a few at AFL level which is his one wood. He is only 19 or so so will improve strength and fitness.

I do agree with the concerns around his ability to keep up at present which is linked to his limited agility.

I don't think he has had enough game time to put a line thru him yet.

Box Hill certainly missed him on the weekend.

 

[theiaofseed]

Yes it is early days for Callow. Some on here seem to think he has not produced any positive signs which is not correct. His 2nd Q was ok and if he kicks that goal his confidence goes up a notch.

He has shown at AFL level that he can get in front and be a strong target. What seems to to have shown up is that the AFL defenders are taller and stronger than VFL so he is able to take more of these at VFL but he has still taken a few at AFL level which is his one wood. He is only 19 or so so will improve strength and fitness.

I do agree with the concerns around his ability to keep up at present which is linked to his limited agility.

I don't think he has had enough game time to put a line thru him yet.

Box Hill certainly missed him on the weekend.

He's already slow and lacks agility what do you think will happen when he adds even more weight?

 

[threesixpio]

A 165cm full forward would have fared well for the Homo Habilis firsts

 

[eldorado]

A 165cm full forward would have fared well for the Homo Habilis firsts

Absolutely dominant ruck in Flores!

 

[Slainte]

Nothing is funnier than player comparisons from 30+ years ago.

Glad you got a laugh. Always a bonus on a Monday morning.

You might have been in nappies at the time, but i remember it like it was yesterday. I also remember, in earlier years, plenty of Hawk supporters saying that P Dear would not make the grade because he was too short, too slow etc.

 

[Slainte]

How is it arrogant? 30 years ago, you could get by with a 190cm ruck. Now 200cm rucks are bordering on short. Same deal with KPPs.

Paul Dear was 188cm, which is pretty much equivalent to Callow's 194cm today. The size comparison is fair.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Your comment is pretty funny and arrogant. Is there a time stamp on player comparisons? 5 years? 10 years? 20 years? Please share

I’d have thought it was pretty damn obvious that the types of players who could succeed and the type of football played in 1991 in comparison to players and footy style in 2022 is like chalk and cheese.

You need to be able to do more than the occasional contested mark to make it at AFL level in 2022.

 

[Slainte]

He's already slow and lacks agility what do you think will happen when he adds even more weight?

They are exactly the questions being asked about P Dear in 1988.
As it turned out, he did just fine playing at 188cm and 106 kg. With footy it is all about what you can do with the body you have been given.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Glad you got a laugh. Always a bonus on a Monday morning.

You might have been in nappies at the time, but i remember it like it was yesterday. I also remember, in earlier years, plenty of Hawk supporters saying that P Dear would not make the grade because he was too short, too slow etc.

You assume my username is not ironic. I remember Dear well, and I often see him locally which makes me chuffed to see Hawk royalty in the flesh.

Regardless, this isn’t 1991, we’re talking about football where if you’re off by an inch or slow to react by a millisecond that your opponent will take advantage and you’ll get found out.

There’s so many factors to consider that make the comparison irrelevant.

 

[KermitJagger]

Reads to me like someone having a laugh at someone for comparing players from different periods of time.

Sizes are probably all relative to the ages.

Comparisons between eras are pointless.

You're comparing largely part time footy players to full time professional players for one. Not just that, but player shape, size and fitness have progressed rapidly, even game plans have changed immensely in the past 10-15 years let alone 30.

If you took a peak Lance Franklin and put him in the 1990s, he'd kick 150 goals a season. On the flip side, if you took a peak Plugger and put him in the 2010s he'd be decent at best, for the games in which he wasn't suspended.

That doesn't mean we can't appreciate past players for what they've done, but the game has changed too much to make these comparisons useful.

 

[theiaofseed]

They are exactly the questions being asked about P Dear in 1988.
As it turned out, he did just fine playing at 188cm and 106 kg. With footy it is all about what you can do with the body you have been given.

Pointing to an exception isnt proving a point, that's without mentioning how much the games changed in 34 years

 

[Sixpence]

A 165cm full forward would have fared well for the Homo Habilis firsts

The average set of Roman Armour would be tight on Caleb Daniel!

 

[threesixpio]

The average set of Roman Armour would be tight on Caleb Daniel!

I was told by a guide at Pompeii that I had the perfect body frame for a gladiator (as evidence that the stereo type big bodied gladiator was in fact incorrect).

My whole family laughed

So did a few tourists around us

It felt like hours of laughter

F**ken arseholes the lot of them

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

Comparisons between eras are pointless.

You're comparing largely part time footy players to full time professional players for one. Not just that, but player shape, size and fitness have progressed rapidly, even game plans have changed immensely in the past 10-15 years let alone 30.

If you took a peak Lance Franklin and put him in the 1990s, he'd kick 150 goals a season. On the flip side, if you took a peak Plugger and put him in the 2010s he'd be decent at best, for the games in which he wasn't suspended.

That doesn't mean we can't appreciate past players for what they've done, but the game has changed too much to make these comparisons useful.

There's a disclaimer there too - with the training and knowledge of their time.

If you put an 18yo Franklin and 18yo Plugger into the draft, both with modern training techniques and attitudes to preparation in their junior careers, then (assuming Plugger could cope mentally) both would still be incredible players.

 

[Delecate Des]

The average set of Roman Armour would be tight on Caleb Daniel!

But reading out the team sheet would be a cracker though

 

[TylerDurden]

 

[KermitJagger]

There's a disclaimer there too - with the training and knowledge of their time.

If you put an 18yo Franklin and 18yo Plugger into the draft, both with modern training techniques and attitudes to preparation in their junior careers, then (assuming Plugger could cope mentally) both would still be incredible players.

Yeah but that's why it's impossible to compare eras, you're comparing players in completely different times and levels of professionalism.

 

[Delecate Des]

Absolutely nothing is a given.

Correct, but our success has not been by coincidence

 

[smeltitdeltit]

Paul Dear was 188cm, which is pretty much equivalent to Callow's 194cm today. The size comparison is fair.

Google says he was 105kgs in 91. Ha ha

 

[Fleabane]

Will Day’s biggest fan here, always great to see him notch another injury free game. Only 9 touches, playing a less aggressive role down back. Seems to have lost some confidence in his kicking. Do we write this season off given his ankle issues?

Second biggest fan here in that case. If he gets through the season injury free and builds some form towards the latter part of the season, that'll do me. (Don't get me wrong, I'd be happier to see him having a big impact of course but it might not be realistic)

 

[cyrilicious]

Players seem to like Mitchell. Whatever happened to those rumuors way back when he left for West Coast that he was not a 'peolples' person and pissed off a lot of teamates and that no one could get along with him??