Preview Round 13: Blues vs the Bye. Mid-season review.

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Funk

Norm Smith Medallist
Jan 6, 2015
8,389
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Carlton
Watching the Swans Hawks game, and pondering why our blokes can't apply manic pressure on the opposition all game, the Swans beaten by a far inferior list ..all due to game plan, structure and mindset. where can we get some of that ?
Poach their coach...................
 
Nov 8, 2000
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No Round 14 thread up yet, and after watching On The Couch, in particular Nick Riewoldt talking about the dropping of Milne and Dal Santo to make the list take notice, I've been looking at those we are more likely to get a decent defensive effort out of, even if they fail, and the embracing of the next generation.

We have too many guys who written off as not up to it, but they have not all had the chances to play in their preferred spots. We are too slow with Pittonet in the ruck and De Koning is wasted playing 70% up forward.

I'd like to play a Grigg type second ruck and although I don't want him injured, I'd like to have Jack Silvagni around the ball more so he'd be one of my choices. I'd like to see what he can do leading an opposition ruck around the field.

I'd like to drop Doc and Cripps to send a message but we can't go that far, so Doc, as much as I love him, he has to serve penance for his lack of defensive running. Similarly, bugger this negative tagging bullshit. Curnow isn't doing the jobs he used to do and while he will run defensively, he has to start making way for others. I want the enthusiasm of younger players who want to take ownership of this team.

Plowman Weitering Williamson
Saad Jones Newman
Kemp Kennedy Fisher
Honey McKay Owies
Betts Cripps Silvagni
De Koning Dow Walsh

Setterfield O'Brien Williams Stocker

Sub: Martin

Out: Docherty Murphy Curnow Pittonet Cottrell Newnes (was sub)
In: Plowman Williamson Kemp Kennedy Honey O'Brien

Playing Cripps forward unless the midfield are failing dismally. I'd rather have players that some say aren't ready, instead of keeping the same players that aren't willing.

This will rattle some cages.
 
Last edited:

teknodeejay

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 14, 2004
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The upshot is that we have more talent than our form is showing. There’s something seriously wrong with the mechanics of the team and I dare say the attitude to win at all costs and get a bit dirty doing it.

The shining stars are of course the three most spoken about. Walsh is Superclass status, Weitering A class and McKay elevating into that same conversation.

Cripps and Williams should be in that conversation but for various reasons haven’t been able to perform.

When fit, Silvagni and Fisher have shown good composure, the right attitude and ability to contribute. I’ll also throw Newman into the mix here. He’s been very good in a role we expect Docherty to have been doing. Cunningham was also looking like delivering prior to his injury, and you’d take Fogarty as a win from the trade period.

Most disappointing on field for me has been Setterfield and Docherty. This year was cherry ripe for Setterfield to be a monster in the midfield. It didn’t help he started on the wing but his attitude and commitment was for the most part terrible. I do think he was one of the better triers in the West Coast game but that was an abysmal team outing. Docherty looks a yard off the pace and has some issues creeping in which are no doubt a result of his injuries. SPS, too, is a concern and you’d have to call him a bust which is very disappointing. I would wager he will trade out of the club at years end.

of course you may wonder how I can mention the above without talking about Curnow, Murphy, Casboult… I put their continual walk up selection at the feet of the match committee. Curnow has been a warrior but this has to be his last year similar to how Carrazzo faded hugely in his last. Casboult just can’t go with it anymore. For a bloke his size and with great hands, he has never been above a B grader and this year has slipped into the C ranks. And Murphy. What can you say. Playing for himself and a selfish accolade, and it’s being granted. It’s indicative of the “you don’t need to earn it” vibe at the club which we see play out. Betts is probably the only one you can say has earned it.

so where to from here ? As I said there’s plenty of upside to work with. We should be well above our results. The return of TDK Fisher Martin and others are the right players to have in.

Let’s assume a mid season truth telling wakes everyone up. Selection wise, The midfield needs to just be boom or bust. Dow, Setterfield and find out if SPS wants to play footy. Murphy gets the subs vest at most, but kids get played ahead of him.

If Teague is to see out the year and set ip 2022 he needs some decent assistance and a mentor. He also needs to take a ruthless approach to player commitment. If you can’t or don’t want to we find players who can and do want to.

I’m as cynical about the team as anyone but there is some hope of eeking out another 4-6 wins. No finals for sure, but it’s about setting the standard moving forward. If Teague can’t, then the next person must be that type.

I’m sure I missed a bunch but that’s about all i can think of.
 

Gethelred

Brownlow Medallist
May 1, 2016
17,698
35,769
AFL Club
Carlton
No Round 14 thread up yet, and after watching On The Couch, in particular Nick Riewoldt talking about the dropping of Milne and Dal Santo to make the list take notice, I've been looking at those we are more likely to get a decent defensive effort out of, even if they fail, and the embracing of the next generation.

We have too many guys who written off as not up to it, but they have not all had the chances to play in their preferred spots. We are too slow with Pittonet in the ruck and De Koning is wasted playing 70% up forward.

I'd like to play a Grigg type second ruck and although I don't want him injured, I'd like to have Jack Silvagni around the ball more so he'd be one of my choices. I'd like to see what he can do leading an opposition ruck around the field.

I'd like to drop Doc and Cripps to send a message but we can't go that far, so Doc, as much as I love him, he has to serve penance for his lack of defensive running. Similarly, bugger this negative tagging bullshit. Curnow isn't doing the jobs he used to do and while he will run defensively, he has to start making way for others. I want the enthusiasm of younger players who want to take ownership of this team.

Plowman Weitering Williamson
Saad Jones Newman
Kemp Kennedy Fisher
Honey McKay Owies
Betts Cripps Silvagni
De Koning Dow Walsh

Setterfield O'Brien Williams Stocker

Sub: Martin

Out: Docherty Murphy Curnow Pittonet Cottrell Newnes (was sub)
In: Plowman Williamson Kemp Kennedy Honey O'Brien

Playing Cripps forward unless the midfield are failing dismally. I'd rather have players that some say aren't ready, instead of keeping the same players that aren't willing.

This will rattle some cages.
Only one I disagree with is Williamson, largely because he's just refusing to take the first option. His game read is not all that strong, so he just either needs to play within himself or look for Leaders or someone specific, whether Doc, Weitering, Jones, Plow, Saad etc.

We would be thoroughly better off if you replaced him with Williams, and Willams with whichever of Setterfield or Dow laid the most tackles in either reserves or seniors.
 

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Nov 8, 2000
82,376
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Head in the clouds
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Only one I disagree with is Williamson, largely because he's just refusing to take the first option. His game read is not all that strong, so he just either needs to play within himself or look for Leaders or someone specific, whether Doc, Weitering, Jones, Plow, Saad etc.

We would be thoroughly better off if you replaced him with Williams, and Willams with whichever of Setterfield or Dow laid the most tackles in either reserves or seniors.
Williamson takes the game on. Our game plan and lack of defensive running from the midfield hurt him. He went back to the VFL and showed a lot of dare again. I'm prepared to give him time to grow in a new side.
 

T2B_

The Avo King
Feb 13, 2011
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No Round 14 thread up yet, and after watching On The Couch, in particular Nick Riewoldt talking about the dropping of Milne and Dal Santo to make the list take notice, I've been looking at those we are more likely to get a decent defensive effort out of, even if they fail, and the embracing of the next generation.

We have too many guys who written off as not up to it, but they have not all had the chances to play in their preferred spots. We are too slow with Pittonet in the ruck and De Koning is wasted playing 70% up forward.

I'd like to play a Grigg type second ruck and although I don't want him injured, I'd like to have Jack Silvagni around the ball more so he'd be one of my choices. I'd like to see what he can do leading an opposition ruck around the field.

I'd like to drop Doc and Cripps to send a message but we can't go that far, so Doc, as much as I love him, he has to serve penance for his lack of defensive running. Similarly, bugger this negative tagging bullshit. Curnow isn't doing the jobs he used to do and while he will run defensively, he has to start making way for others. I want the enthusiasm of younger players who want to take ownership of this team.

Plowman Weitering Williamson
Saad Jones Newman
Kemp Kennedy Fisher
Honey McKay Owies
Betts Cripps Silvagni
De Koning Dow Walsh

Setterfield O'Brien Williams Stocker

Sub: Martin

Out: Docherty Murphy Curnow Pittonet Cottrell Newnes (was sub)
In: Plowman Williamson Kemp Kennedy Honey O'Brien

Playing Cripps forward unless the midfield are failing dismally. I'd rather have players that some say aren't ready, instead of keeping the same players that aren't willing.

This will rattle some cages.
Only issue I see with that use of JSOS is he'd probably unluckily somehow get injured. As seems to happen...
 
Nov 8, 2000
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Head in the clouds
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Only issue I see with that use of JSOS is he'd probably unluckily somehow get injured. As seems to happen...
That's my worry too. I would like to see him around the ball a bit more without taking a midfielder spot. Unless Kennedy or Setterfield do some rucking. He'll, I'd even use Plowman as I'd like to see him controlling the middle of the ground too.
 

BlueBelle

Chief Bluebagger
May 11, 2006
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Only one I disagree with is Williamson, largely because he's just refusing to take the first option. His game read is not all that strong, so he just either needs to play within himself or look for Leaders or someone specific, whether Doc, Weitering, Jones, Plow, Saad etc.

We would be thoroughly better off if you replaced him with Williams, and Willams with whichever of Setterfield or Dow laid the most tackles in either reserves or seniors.
Williamson has been horrible this year and deserved to be dropped. He gets caught with the ball far too often and is a poor decision maker. Two years ago he looked extremely promising so not sure what has happened to him
 
Nov 8, 2000
82,376
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Head in the clouds
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Williamson has been horrible this year and deserved to be dropped. He gets caught with the ball far too often and is a poor decision maker. Two years ago he looked extremely promising so not sure what has happened to him
Most of our players have been horrible this year. Some have struggled more because our leaders aren't talking on the field or following any sort of system.
 

BlueBelle

Chief Bluebagger
May 11, 2006
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Didn’t think we’d play finals this year but thought we’d be doing better than we are (obviously). I thought this year was another building year, getting experience into players and developing our skills but to me, so far it’s been a complete waste. Two years ago we looked like we were going places. Fast forward to present day and we’re going backwards.

We have the players though which is the most frustrating part. To me, we look disinterested and disconnected, similar to how we played under Bolton towards the end. Is that because they don’t believe in Teague? Can Teague coach and does he just need some better assistant coaches around him? Will sacking Teague actually move this group of players forward? I guess we’ll find out.

I truly hope this review is the catalyst for necessary change and not just a stop gap to shut up us members and supporters. The players need to have a long hard look at themselves too. It can’t just be the coaching panels fault.

26 years since our last premiership and counting :(
 

BlueBayou

Club Legend
Apr 28, 2016
1,620
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AFL Club
Carlton
No Round 14 thread up yet, and after watching On The Couch, in particular Nick Riewoldt talking about the dropping of Milne and Dal Santo to make the list take notice, I've been looking at those we are more likely to get a decent defensive effort out of, even if they fail, and the embracing of the next generation.

We have too many guys who written off as not up to it, but they have not all had the chances to play in their preferred spots. We are too slow with Pittonet in the ruck and De Koning is wasted playing 70% up forward.

I'd like to play a Grigg type second ruck and although I don't want him injured, I'd like to have Jack Silvagni around the ball more so he'd be one of my choices. I'd like to see what he can do leading an opposition ruck around the field.

I'd like to drop Doc and Cripps to send a message but we can't go that far, so Doc, as much as I love him, he has to serve penance for his lack of defensive running. Similarly, bugger this negative tagging bullshit. Curnow isn't doing the jobs he used to do and while he will run defensively, he has to start making way for others. I want the enthusiasm of younger players who want to take ownership of this team.

Plowman Weitering Williamson
Saad Jones Newman
Kemp Kennedy Fisher
Honey McKay Owies
Betts Cripps Silvagni
De Koning Dow Walsh

Setterfield O'Brien Williams Stocker

Sub: Martin

Out: Docherty Murphy Curnow Pittonet Cottrell Newnes (was sub)
In: Plowman Williamson Kemp Kennedy Honey O'Brien

Playing Cripps forward unless the midfield are failing dismally. I'd rather have players that some say aren't ready, instead of keeping the same players that aren't willing.

This will rattle some cages.
I agree with most of what you wrote above, except for dropping the 2nd ruck, as I don't think TDK is up to the full time role yet and Crippa cannot play FF, it's just such a waste. So Kennedy does not make it, and Crippa plays in the center/RR. TDK at CHF and, for all his faults, our best ruck ATM, Pitto, plays ruck.

(also on the fence about dropping EC, it's good to have that tool in the satchel to nullify he oppo best player, but understand your reasoning)

Doc and Murph should do time in the 2nds. (I'm pretty strong on Murph dropped forever) Crippa is on shaky ground, but held to very high standards.

Anyone who ever has read my thoughts about Jack Silvagni over the journey will know that I compare him more to Serge then Steve. He is an old fashioned ruck rover by nature and ability and effort. Maybe a better term is even more old fashioned; he is a natural 'follower'. While he has classs and smarts in the forward line, can be capable and dependable in the back line, I believe he would shine in an on ball position. Strong enough to bullock in the clinches, tall enough to mark around the ground, smart and sharp with release handballs, a usefull and incitefull field kick. His major weakness is his goal kicking. So perhaps he could provide the 'Griggs' Role from time to time. It gives us a much more versatile player around the ground, while giving up any potential ascendency at the ruck contests. (not that we actually have any)

I would make Weiters captain next year and let Doc and Crippa just concentrate on being the best they can be.
 

Gethelred

Brownlow Medallist
May 1, 2016
17,698
35,769
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Carlton
That's my worry too. I would like to see him around the ball a bit more without taking a midfielder spot. Unless Kennedy or Setterfield do some rucking. He'll, I'd even use Plowman as I'd like to see him controlling the middle of the ground too.
You're suggesting we add Plowman to the midfield rotation so that we have yet another player we can complain about being consigned to the back pocket instead of the midfield?

In all seriousness, I like the idea. He's got that desperate lunge defensively, has smart hands, is generally a good user of the ball, and is kind of weirdly faster than you'd think. I seem to remember someone at some point saying that they rated him as a junior as a potential midfielder, that he could be anything.

All I'll say if it comes off, though, is trust Carlton to play and develop one of their best mids as a lockdown back pocket.
 

HavUEvaSeenTheRain

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 20, 2006
6,844
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Pretty much just do what we done against West Coast but drop Murphy for a younger player.
In that West Coast game we did “play the kids” and they were able to add the youthful excitement considering Dow, Walsh and Setters along with a 26 year old Cripps were our on ball brigade. Drop Murph and the only players who won’t be young enough to still be playing in 2025 are Betts, Curnow and Jones. Three players who are all in good form and easily deserving of a game atm.
Borderline guys like Owies, Cottrell, Setterfield, Dow, Stocker are already getting opportunities; it was just unfortunate that Owies was the only one who held his own against a depleted West Coast. Cottrell is ready for a break so replace him and Murphy and that makes way for another couple of borderline players and that gives us half a dozen spots for unproven/developing players. Going off the West Coast game the opportunities are already there and being given to the younger guys so I don’t think there is much need for change in that respect.
 

Gethelred

Brownlow Medallist
May 1, 2016
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I agree with most of what you wrote above, except for dropping the 2nd ruck, as I don't think TDK is up to the full time role yet and Crippa cannot play FF, it's just such a waste. So Kennedy does not make it, and Crippa plays in the center/RR. TDK at CHF and, for all his faults, our best ruck ATM, Pitto, plays ruck.

(also on the fence about dropping EC, it's good to have that tool in the satchel to nullify he oppo best player, but understand your reasoning)

Doc and Murph should do time in the 2nds. (I'm pretty strong on Murph dropped forever) Crippa is on shaky ground, but held to very high standards.

Anyone who ever has read my thoughts about Jack Silvagni over the journey will know that I compare him more to Serge then Steve. He is an old fashioned ruck rover by nature and ability and effort. Maybe a better term is even more old fashioned; he is a natural 'follower'. While he has classs and smarts in the forward line, can be capable and dependable in the back line, I believe he would shine in an on ball position. Strong enough to bullock in the clinches, tall enough to mark around the ground, smart and sharp with release handballs, a usefull and incitefull field kick. His major weakness is his goal kicking. So perhaps he could provide the 'Griggs' Role from time to time. It gives us a much more versatile player around the ground, while giving up any potential ascendency at the ruck contests. (not that we actually have any)

I would make Weiters captain next year and let Doc and Crippa just concentrate on being the best they can be.
I'm going to put it this way: I think TDK should take the centre stoppages, before folding in ahead of the ball (and if Pitto plays, behind to play a kick behind) and we should play one of Jack, Jones, Plow, McGovern, Kennedy at the stoppages as a ruckman and rely less on overwhelming taps dominance and more on good defensive positioning both around the stoppage and 40m corridor and boundary side of the stoppage. Try and win the centre clearances outright, but around the ground make the default to be an effort for the opposition to win cleanly regardless of the quality of their taps, and if they want to go quick with a snap kick from within we'll be set up downfield.

I thoroughly agree about Jack, although I'm too young to have seen Serge.
 

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