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Round 13 changes

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martinson said:
Zero chance of Rayner being dropped. He's in the leadership group for reasons unknown

I just don't see Chris sucking that up after all the time and talk he's put into him. The vote in the prior game said it all.
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Giving him a leadership role was one of the worst decisions the club has made in over 10 years. I was baffled at the time and still am.

How do you give a lazy footballer a leadership role? There is not a leadership bone in him. If I was a young player stuck in reserves seeing his output week in week out, I would be pissed off and not inspired.
 
mpal6 said:
So are we saying he was fit and ready to play inside since start of the season, but it sort of fell on his lap only after injuries?

www.afl.com.au

The 'ultimate team man' helping lift Lions

Jarrod Berry's role change has been key to the Lions' improved form
www.afl.com.au www.afl.com.au

And although injuries opened the door for Berry to change positions three weeks ago, the 26-year-old is making a strong case for staying there long-term.

Zac Bailey's ankle injury and Harry Sharp's late inclusion to the 22 against the Suns meant the Lions had a surplus of wingers (with Sharp, Jaspa Fletcher and Bruce Reville), allowing coach Chris Fagan to move Berry onball.

Prior to that match, the No.17 pick from the 2016 AFL Draft had not attended one centre bounce in 2024. Since, he's attended 44 in the past three weeks and averaged 24 disposals, four tackles, three clearances and kicked two goals since.
Click to expand...
Hmm , this guy although not being untruthfull , is possibly a liitle misleading.
Maybe the club had a plan to see how his shoulder stood up after surgery , with minutes in the midfield and wing with more time on the wing all the time hoping he could be physically capable of playing more midfield. Easing him back into the mid role. Injuries possibly bringing it forward.

When this journo states " the 26 year old is making a good case for staying long term ", it could also be the 26year olds shoulder is standing up well which is the reason of the good case , but the way it more so reads, the only reason he's back in the midfield because there was no other choice due to other players injuries.
We all remember him cluching his shoulders in pain the last few years so doesn't make sense that we were holding him back because we thought he's not required to be a mid.
 
Vitriol for Rayner started a little over the top, is now bordering on absurd. He had a bad game - a month ago was BOG in our best win of the season. Is currently patching holes as we reshuffle the squad, and that Hawks game was a terrible time to be a forward with how we were setting up and entering. Sure it would be great if he could be more consistent but you don't just ignore how high his ceiling is and that he can win a game off his own boot, every time he doesn't do that.
 

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Jimmy Two Hands said:
Vitriol for Rayner started a little over the top, is now bordering on absurd. He had a bad game - a month ago was BOG in our best win of the season. Is currently patching holes as we reshuffle the squad, and that Hawks game was a terrible time to be a forward with how we were setting up and entering. Sure it would be great if he could be more consistent but you don't just ignore how high his ceiling is and that he can win a game off his own boot, every time he doesn't do that.
Click to expand...
Rayner is the most overhyped player in the AFL and the coaching staff are to blame for everything gave him fifth in the B&F last year averaging 14 possessions and less than a goal game. How ridiculous Cameron and Danaher both kicked over 60 and came behind him is incredible
I would love to see GPS numbers every week he would be at least 2 to 3 km less than some of the leading players and has no second and third effort just wasted talent. When you see how good he can play in that game against Melbourne , but he has always only ever played one decent game in 10 you can add up all these goals for the year in three or four games so lazy and is costing us severely has to be dropped
 
martinson said:
Zero chance of Rayner being dropped. He's in the leadership group for reasons unknown

I just don't see Chris sucking that up after all the time and talk he's put into him. The vote in the prior game said it all.
Click to expand...

I feel like this is a bit unfair. Someone can have good leadership qualities regardless of their output. Doedee had high praise for him in the offseason in terms of leadership.
 
Jimmy Two Hands said:
Vitriol for Rayner started a little over the top, is now bordering on absurd. He had a bad game - a month ago was BOG in our best win of the season. Is currently patching holes as we reshuffle the squad, and that Hawks game was a terrible time to be a forward with how we were setting up and entering. Sure it would be great if he could be more consistent but you don't just ignore how high his ceiling is and that he can win a game off his own boot, every time he doesn't do that.
Click to expand...
Honestly . What you say is fine but when has he ever won a game off his own boot ?? I can't see he has a high ceiling at all because he's only average in most facets of the modern game.

But there's probably a key to getting the most out of him which we've yet to unlock.
 
Nathan Barley said:
I have questioned before whether we have good off field leaders but not good on field leadership
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This is a big issue I believe.

When it's time to step up to the plate there's no consistency of effort across our on field leaders. Though you do see from time to time Neale for instance really go up a cog when the pressure's on. He does recognise what's required even if he can't do it all the time.
 
martinson said:
Honestly . What you say is fine but when has he ever won a game off his own boot ?? I can't see he has a high ceiling at all because he's only average in most facets of the modern game.

But there's probably a key to getting the most out of him which we've yet to unlock.
Click to expand...

Saints in 2022. I’d say pies on Easter Thursday goes close, for all that it ended up a blowout and he kept us in it against port in the qualifying final last year.

It’s all moments though. Far too infrequent moments.
 
Tom14 said:
Saints in 2022. I’d say pies on Easter Thursday goes close, for all that it ended up a blowout and he kept us in it against port in the qualifying final last year.

It’s all moments though. Far too infrequent moments.
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Consistency of effort is something that's undervalued. Moments are overvalued.

Ah Chee kicked 4 goals a couple of weeks ago ,about the most Cam's ever kicked but no one was saying he won the game off his own boot.
 
martinson said:
Consistency of effort is something that's undervalued. Moments are overvalued.

Ah Chee kicked 4 goals a couple of weeks ago ,about the most Cam's ever kicked but no one was saying he won the game off his own boot.
Click to expand...

Well hard to say that when we didn't win the game...
 

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martinson said:
Consistency of effort is something that's undervalued. Moments are overvalued.

Ah Chee kicked 4 goals a couple of weeks ago ,about the most Cam's ever kicked but no one was saying he won the game off his own boot.
Click to expand...
100% correct.
 
Jimmy Two Hands said:
Vitriol for Rayner started a little over the top, is now bordering on absurd. He had a bad game - a month ago was BOG in our best win of the season. Is currently patching holes as we reshuffle the squad, and that Hawks game was a terrible time to be a forward with how we were setting up and entering. Sure it would be great if he could be more consistent but you don't just ignore how high his ceiling is and that he can win a game off his own boot, every time he doesn't do that.
Click to expand...

That you Cam?
 
I don’t think the Cam criticism on this board has been over the top at all. If anything, until recently he had a pretty good run on here.

We all want to see Cam succeed, as I’ve said he seems like a great guy, but let’s not pretend we’re talking about a player taken as a speculative rookie pick here. We burnt the first pick in a draft on a guy that over his career has averaged 13-14 odd disposals and approx a goal a game. He’s in his sixth year and it’s only really now that he’s copping any type of heat.

As others have said if he was playing for a Collingwood the pressure would’ve amped up years ago.

I hope he improves, but I’ve now got serious doubts that will happen with us unfortunately.
 
Squizz89 said:
I don’t think the Cam criticism on this board has been over the top at all. If anything, until recently he had a pretty good run on here.

We all want to see Cam succeed, as I’ve said he seems like a great guy, but let’s not pretend we’re talking about a player taken as a speculative rookie pick here. We burnt the first pick in a draft on a guy that over his career has averaged 13-14 odd disposals and approx a goal a game. He’s in his sixth year and it’s only really now that he’s copping any type of heat.

As others have said if he was playing for a Collingwood the pressure would’ve amped up years ago.

I hope he improves, but I’ve now got serious doubts that will happen with us unfortunately.
Click to expand...

Shouldn't judge him based on his draft pick

Judge our poor recruiting
 

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Seeing we are still a chance for the 8 i don't see Fagan going to radical v Dogs.
i would have made some changes and given Starch a run in the VFL.
But i have picked a side Fagan most likely runs with v Dogs.
We lose this one and the following weeks selection could be different.

In: Hippy, Starcevich
Out: Ryan and Reville (could be sub)
.......................................................

FB: Noah Answerth, Jack Payne, Ryan Lester

HB: Conor McKenna, Harris Andrews, Dane Zorko

C: Jasper Fletcher (W/M), Hugh McCluggage, Darcy Wilmot

HF: Zac Bailey (F/M/W), Eric Hipwood, Kai Lohmann (F/M)

FF: Charlie Cameron, Joe Daniher, Logan Morris

FOLL: Oscar McInerney, Josh Dunkley, Lachie Neale

I/C: Jarrod Berry (M/F), Cam Rayner (F/M), Brandon Starcevich (D), Cal Ah-Chee (W/F)

SUB: from Bruce Reville, Harry Sharp, Shadow Brain
 
Nathan Barley said:
Shouldn't judge him based on his draft pick

Judge our poor recruiting
Click to expand...
If people stopped pumping Cam up so much and everyone just accepted his capacities I don't think there'd be all that much criticism

We made a rod for his back by putting No1 against his name and made it a lot worse for him by never dropping him so he could learn to play accountable footy.
 
Outs- Cam Rayner, Connor McKenna, Brandon Ryan.

Ins- Will McLachlan, Luke Beecken, Eric Hipwood.

Sub- Danny Craven.

;)
 
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