Autopsy Round 14, 2022: St.Kilda v Essendon *SPUD'S GAME*

[TassieSaint]

Very interesting to hear from Luke Hodge on SEN right now on our game against the Bombers.

He said that he could see we weren't right from the beginning.
His words, being at the game, not excuses from me, so don't shoot the messenger -

Stated that Saints played last week with two concussions and Jones coming off with the hammy. Limited interchanges really affected the players who were sent back on when they were coming off for a rest because we were just a couple of goals behind. Coming off an interstate trip and 6 day break, the players came into the Bombers game leg - heavy. Said he's been in that position many times and could spot it from the start of the game.

Interesting insight from a player who's been there, done that - offered a realistic explanation for the way we played.

Hopefully we bounce back with an eight day break.

I'm sure all that is true to some extent, but we should not be getting beaten by a team like the bombers period. There's surely a mental aspect where some of the team were feeling tired but weren't 100% out of gas and couldn't be bothered putting in the extra effort. That is what makes great teams. I don't reckon anyone in the team could honestly say they left everything out there. We didn't just look tired we looked completely disinterested at times. More than any game since he's been out we missed Steele I reckon, really lacked leadership.

 

[Diehard Saint]

I'm sure all that is true to some extent, but we should not be getting beaten by a team like the bombers period. There's surely a mental aspect where some of the team were feeling tired but weren't 100% out of gas and couldn't be bothered putting in the extra effort. That is what makes great teams. I don't reckon anyone in the team could honestly say they left everything out there. We didn't just look tired we looked completely disinterested at times. More than any game since he's been out we missed Steele I reckon, really lacked leadership.

Just mentioning what someone who’s actually been in the situation had to say.
Interesting he spotted it from the start
He certainly has more insight into this situation than all of us keyboard warriors

 

[TassieSaint]

Just mentioning what someone who’s actually been in the situation had to say.
Interesting he spotted it from the start
He certainly has more insight into this situation than all of us keyboard warriors

Yeah I'm sure he's on the money, and I thought watching at home you could tell we weren't on from the start. I just don't think it's an excuse for what we dished up against what is honestly a pretty rubbish team.

 

[The Punter]

I think there is a tendency after a performance like that to say, rather than the performance was poor, that the club/list is broken.

And this is understandable: we have an increasingly restless and (with good reason) impatient core supporter base.

It doesn't make the assessment correct. In both 2009 and 2010 we lost to Essendon. In 2010 we did it twice.

Last year Melbourne lost two games to teams that finished 15th and 17th on the ladder at the end of the season.

St Kilda's record under Ratten when the club has lost it's last two games is 7-2. One of those wins was against the defending premiers, another against the Doggies in a year we played them in the finals, another was against Geelong this year.

I hate seeing us lose to Essendon more than any other club. But I think there is a pretty good track record under Ratten of a strong response from this position.

 

[ScrappyDo]

We should give him a rest to get better. We played a man down with him in the team, and we're not good enough to carry him.

I thought he should have been rested for the Crows and Norff games which would have given him a full month off. I just can't see why they insist of running him in to the ground when we have 2 quality rucks and Campbell is there if need be. We were far better off having Paddy forward and letting Campbell do the hack work but now their both running on 3 cylinders and we have zero mojo to start the tough run. I thought it was obvious but what do I know about stuff..

 

[Saints TV]

Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[aussierulesrules]

Gresham not in the best 7 on the ground!? Surely they jest.

 

[AirWinmar]

I think Ratts struggles to get maximum benefit from some of our players:

Hill - we're not able to get close to maximum benefit. We struggled with run this game and Hill wasn't in the top 5 for distance run this game. In my view, that's his biggest asset and I'd expect him to be at least in the top 5 for distance covered. Providing run and carry and an option.

Membery - whatever his role is, don't think we're getting bang for our buck, he is playing higher up the ground but we're short for targets i50. If we do want him to play that role, we need another forward target to help out King otherwise we are going to struggle to win games when King isn't able to do very well. Don't mind him playing a high half forward or wing role if we have another good f50 target (Sharman), but then he needs to work on his speed of decision making

 

[The Punter]

Members is a ball stopper. It's a problem.

 

[AirWinmar]

I can't imagine the instruction from the coaches was to play from behind, and be second to every other contest, which is what the players, objectively, did for most of the evening. Broke out of it for periods, but there were swathes of time where it looked like a quiet game of kick-to-kick for the Bombers with nary a Saints player in sight until the ball was 50 metres further downfield.

The Bombers seemed to take Tim Watson's words very much to heart ... every ... single ... contest.

Our zone appeared to be too loose to me, whether that's the players or coaching, we seemed to allow them a lot of easy possession

 

[austinnn]

Honestly? You’re watching on from overseas. So you’re a little removed from things here, easy for you to talk so flippantly.
Moving the club to Tassie should not even be joked about - it would absolutely gut both the club and members.

Anyway, thank heavens, it’s not going to happen.

Well DS much as I don't want to get into a tiff with you and my words are easy to dismiss considering I'm not in Australia, but when I was a Melbourne resident I went to most home games, even taking my pushbike on the train to Glen Waverley and went regularly when we were properly s**t, in the Watson-Blight era. I'd give a lot to be able to go now.

 

[phantom13]

I think there is a tendency after a performance like that to say, rather than the performance was poor, that the club/list is broken.

And this is understandable: we have an increasingly restless and (with good reason) impatient core supporter base.

It doesn't make the assessment correct. In both 2009 and 2010 we lost to Essendon. In 2010 we did it twice.

Last year Melbourne lost two games to teams that finished 15th and 17th on the ladder at the end of the season.

St Kilda's record under Ratten when the club has lost it's last two games is 7-2. One of those wins was against the defending premiers, another against the Doggies in a year we played them in the finals, another was against Geelong this year.

I hate seeing us lose to Essendon more than any other club. But I think there is a pretty good track record under Ratten of a strong response from this position.

I dont THINK i overreacted on Friday/Saturday (as bitterly disappointed as i was).

In reality we should have won, we dished up a pathetic performance, players should be ashamed AND its still only one game. All those things are true.

We have a tough next few weeks and if we drop our bundle it could be curtains on the season. If that happens after we started 8-4 then i think all the vitriol in the world will be deserved.

Our zone appeared to be too loose to me, whether that's the players or coaching, we seemed to allow them a lot of easy possession

Yeh, it was sitting in between the first and second kicks and it was very slow moving, wound up being sat in no mans land the whole night, was obvious at the ground.

 

[gringo2011]

Surely the skill and composure Clark has shown in games shows he belongs at this level. He is coming from a long way back right now given the serious nature of his injuries and the amount of obstacles that were out of his control coming back. He was playing good football before his face was shattered, he just needs some time to get back to that level and get some continuity back into his game which he hasn't had this year.

Really don't think the size of his arms would have mattered when MacKay was sending a shoulder through his jaw.

He’s coming back from a long way but he’s also been developing for a long time. He needs to start moving forward with some swift pace or he’ll get overtaken. Potential is cute for awhile and the you get the Billing’s treatment.

 

[gringo2011]

Ive banged the drum about how critical Dan Mac and to a lesser extent Mason were all year and Friday only proved that even more so.

Essendon players likely would have had some actual pressure with their handball chains out of the d50 and into the middle if even one of those guys were in the side.

Yeah we missed the work horses on top of Steele who sets the tone. We have a lot of lazy one way types so taking cake out from under the icing doesn’t make for a great spectacle.

 

[AirWinmar]

I never said it was all coaching but those are things coaches shoukd be able to notice and adjust. Frankly if the coaches couldn’t see it I would be stunned, it was painfully obvious.

Winning or losing clearances and contests doesn’t impact how your zone sets up amd what you do to impact the opposition ball movement.

If you read any of my other posts you’d see I’ve blasted the playing group first and foremost, effort and endeavor was utterly pathetic but coaches are accountable for not just what they * up but also for what players do or don’t do. You don’t have to like it but that’s the game.

Yes I was at the game.

The Adelaide game our zone looked too loose as well. I was even thinking are we trying to do a strange game plan to allow them into the corridor for some reason, like you would normally do in the pockets

 

[Diehard Saint]

Well DS much as I don't want to get into a tiff with you and my words are easy to dismiss considering I'm not in Australia, but when I was a Melbourne resident I went to most home games, even taking my pushbike on the train to Glen Waverley and went regularly when we were properly s**t, in the Watson-Blight era. I'd give a lot to be able to go now.

No tiff. It’s all a debate.

I don’t think I’m dismissing your words, but if you lived here and went to games regularly, I find it hard to believe you’d even consider suggesting such a thing.
Pretty sure many, many exFitzroy and South Melbourne supporters would agree.
It would be like ripping your heart out for so many people here. And I’m speaking as a person who has only lived here for 24 years- not even one who grew up barracking for the Saints from their first breath pretty much.

I get that it’s easier to be a less emotionally involved when you’re living on the other side of the world though and not steeped in the media 24/7 throughout the season.

You might want to be able to go to games now, but I would love to be travelling back in your part of the world again.

 

[TheOsprey]

Initial reaction was disappointment that we didn’t show up nor did we look like we had the desire against a team with nothing to play for except pride.

Upon reflection, I reckon we’ve been punching above our weight for a few weeks in terms of list quality and that Ratten has actually been getting pretty close to the best out of the list.

Disappointed but it’s a weird juxtaposition that in a year where results have been okay I’ve watched much less footy than I normally would.

Every week I reckon it’s a 50/50 game regardless of if it’s the premiers or Brisbane at the Gabba or a cellar dweller like Essendon. We’re a middling team capable of beating the best teams yet incapable of comfortably putting the poor teams away - on a regular basis anyway.

 

[plugger66]

No they aren't. They are AFL footballers being paid a very good wage to play for St Kilda in whichever position best suits the team on any given day.

You make it sound like players are only capable of playing in one position and that's it. Ryder, Marshall and Campbell have all ALL played as either primary ruck or as a forward/ruck over their careers.

As I've said before Marshall is playing injured, looks like a short rest won't cure it, so the coaching staff keep going with the same strategy.

Campbell rucking with Ryder forward could be a better option ATM but the it looks like the coaching staff are sold on X and as we know X is always better than Y especially if you never try Y.

Lets move Membrey to the back half for a while. Boring!!!

PS - Ryder is averaging more goals a game this year as Marshall despite Paddy apparently only being a "first ruck" and not being able to play "forward/ruck".

Well that’s a new one. Because you are an afl football being paid a good wage you just play in the best position that suits the team. Sounds fair enough but it naive. When did a wage mean you can play a particular spot. Yes I knew talking to you I’d need to have all my stats right so yes Ryder has kicked more goals but I can assure Marshall gets to many more forward contests and provides pressure so much more than Ryder. Luckily I saw that show with Joey on Sunday to see that. Only tall forward who is above average. What I find weird is it’s obvious Marshall is injured but he is clearly still going better than Ryder in the last 4 weeks. Unless Marshall needs an operation or a short rest will help the combination of Ryder and Campbell as rucks is a terrible combination especially if they drop butler this week and bring in Sharman. We may have the least defensive forward pressure in the afl. Yep someone will bring tackles. Luckily the club know there is more to forward pressure than tackles. Proven by Marshall being above average in that area without great tackle numbers.

 

[Premium]

Well that’s a new one. Because you are an afl football being paid a good wage you just play in the best position that suits the team. Sounds fair enough but it naive. When did a wage mean you can play a particular spot. Yes I knew talking to you I’d need to have all my stats right so yes Ryder has kicked more goals but I can assure Marshall gets to many more forward contests and provides pressure so much more than Ryder. Luckily I saw that show with Joey on Sunday to see that. Only tall forward who is above average. What I find weird is it’s obvious Marshall is injured but he is clearly still going better than Ryder in the last 4 weeks. Unless Marshall needs an operation or a short rest will help the combination of Ryder and Campbell as rucks is a terrible combination especially if they drop butler this week and bring in Sharman. We may have the least defensive forward pressure in the afl. Yep someone will bring tackles. Luckily the club know there is more to forward pressure than tackles. Proven by Marshall being above average in that area without great tackle numbers.

I rate Marshall a star , if he was fully fit I have him as a stand alone ruckman and only use Paddy when we are up against a strong 2 ruckmen side.
The reason being I like Marshall roving the ground because he thrives in the following role and Ryder we are risking him playing him so much knowing he has suffered injuries every season since he has been with us and we might just be pushing him to his limit.
I'd have Campbell as the medi sub , in case of breakdown.
And if Marshall needs a break I'm sure someone could do it - Howard , Battle etc.
I 'm all for giving Sharman a game if we only play the one ruck.

 

[Munga]

I wonder if our players are burning...

 

[TassieSaint]

Tuesday morning and is anyone else still absolutely fuming about this loss?

 

[phantom13]

Tuesday morning and is anyone else still absolutely fuming about this loss?

I wouldnt say fuming but * it was disappointing. Spud game, Friday night, my first live game for the year and we do that.

The next 5 weeks make or break us. Its conceivable that we dont win any of the next 5 and go from 8-4 to 8-10.

In fact we might only start as favorites in 1 of our next 9...

 

[Premium]

I wouldnt say fuming but * it was disappointing. Spud game, Friday night, my first live game for the year and we do that.

The next 5 weeks make or break us. Its conceivable that we dont win any of the next 5 and go from 8-4 to 8-10.

In fact we might only start as favorites in 1 of our next 9...

Have faith , the spud game they turned into spuds , hopefully it's a one off.

 

[The Punter]

Have faith , the spud game they turned into spuds , hopefully it's a one off.

Pride game this week - just need to rebrand every other home game as the "St Kilda are awesome" game and we'll be set.

 

[Premium]

Pride game this week - just need to rebrand every other home game as the "St Kilda are awesome" game and we'll be set.

Spud game we turned to spuds so what will happen in the pride game - god knows.