Review Round 14, 2023 - Brisbane Lions vs. Sydney

[Quested]

A fit Gardiner will be in like Flynn for Lester, nothing surer. Lester is a great back up but not best 22

Based on the 2 matches Gardiner played vs the games Lester has played, can't agree. Gardiner at his best, sure, but I don't think we've seen that this year in A/VFL

 

[Quested]

2 weeks for a deliberate, jumping elbow to the face is soft as. Seems the only thing the AFL cares about is dump tackles right now.

 

[M Malice]

2 weeks for a deliberate, jumping elbow to the face is soft as. Seems the only thing the AFL cares about is dump tackles right now.

Yes, that could of easily fractured Lester's jaw... would of then got a Andrew Gaff type length suspension.

They place more emphasis on the outcome than the action.

 

[Happy_Neale]

Very serious. I’m not sure what O does better than Fort.

Ruck

 

[KissKiss]

Ruck

I actually think he's a little better when the ball hits the ground as well. Actually think he's a better forward than Fort too. But I like both in the team. Think the chop out works

 

[On the quiet]

A fit Gardiner will be in like Flynn for Lester, nothing surer. Lester is a great back up but not best 22

well maybe they both get a chance this week and Harris will have to take King

 

[AFLQLD]

Lester is a tactically smarter player than Gardiner by a fair margin. In fact there are only a couple of wiser heads in the whole team than Lester. A critical thing in defence in the modern game is not just the execution but the positioning and reading of play. Lester understands and plans the right positions better than Gardiner in my opinion. Gardiner is physically better when he is fully fit but not by that much.

There was one Sydney goal where Lester tried to get someone to cover a loose player at a throw in near the goal while he covered the inside. The player, got there too late and Sydney kicked the goal. Lester looks wider than his own role and knows where players should be. He is one of the players who sees how things could pan out rather than be purely reactive. I see Gardiner as more limited in that regard. I am by no means suggesting he is useless, he has been a solid contributor for quite a while, just that it is a noticeable difference between the two.

Lester will make a good coach some day because he understands how strategy and game awareness can overcome physical or skill limitations.

 

[knaf]

The key word in any comparison between Gardiner and Lester is “fit”. I think it was a mistake to choose Gardiner over Lester against the Hawks. The fact that Gardiner didn’t last the match is a factor in my thinking.

I hope Gardiner is included in the mini preseason group and is not selected for the firsts till he has pulled up well from two or three VFL games. we are not doing Gardiner or the club any favours playing him “match” fit, rather than fully fit. He has two more years on his contract and will be no value if he is two games in three to four games out.

would live with Joyce being selected to replace an injured KPD until he is right to go.

want to be clear that I consider a fully fit Gardiner to be a best 22 AFL footballer. And I am really enjoying Lester’s late career blooming. Long may it last.

 

[Lazza16]

Payne is the main one,he heard clicking in his foot when being treated

McKenna is growing on me.

 

[martinson]

McKenna is growing on me.

I love seeing the ball in McKenna's hands coming out of the back half.

I do wonder whether the coaches and his team mates have worked out what a weapon he can be.

 

[Nunez]

I love seeing the ball in McKenna's hands coming out of the back half.

I do wonder whether the coaches and his team mates have worked out what a weapon he can be.

Honestly with Rich out I'd be looking at getting the ball in his hands forward of centre as much as possible. He and Wilmot as the play makers and Coleman playing a more accountable role/using someone like Madden as a lock down defender is where I see us performing best off half back.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Lester is a tactically smarter player than Gardiner by a fair margin. In fact there are only a couple of wiser heads in the whole team than Lester. A critical thing in defence in the modern game is not just the execution but the positioning and reading of play. Lester understands and plans the right positions better than Gardiner in my opinion. Gardiner is physically better when he is fully fit but not by that much.

There was one Sydney goal where Lester tried to get someone to cover a loose player at a throw in near the goal while he covered the inside. The player, got there too late and Sydney kicked the goal. Lester looks wider than his own role and knows where players should be. He is one of the players who sees how things could pan out rather than be purely reactive. I see Gardiner as more limited in that regard. I am by no means suggesting he is useless, he has been a solid contributor for quite a while, just that it is a noticeable difference between the two.

Lester will make a good coach some day because he understands how strategy and game awareness can overcome physical or skill limitations.

Lester is courageous, has a super high football IQ and he is an elite ball user with a DE% of 84.88% (ranked second for club in 2023). Fagan recruited Hodge and Birchall, looking for a Backline General and we had one under our noses all the time. Lester is a respected leader at our club and I am delighted that more and more people are recognising his capacity to make a valuable contribution.

 

[bungalow_bill]

Based on the 2 matches Gardiner played vs the games Lester has played, can't agree. Gardiner at his best, sure, but I don't think we've seen that this year in A/VFL

Well my opinion is based on Darcy being fit and in form. Based on current form Lester is in front. You don't cop an elbow to the head if you're not playing very well

 

[bungalow_bill]

Not much mention of Berry. Just watched the first half so far and he had 2 goals to that point. What were his stats?

 

[Scubaveg]

McKenna is growing on me.

Like a scab does?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[On the quiet]

Lester is courageous, has a super high football IQ and he is an elite ball user with a DE% of 84.88% (ranked second for club in 2023). Fagan recruited Hodge and Birchall, looking for a Backline General and we had one under our noses all the time. Lester is a respected leader at our club and I am delighted that more and more people are recognising his capacity to make a valuable contribution.

You must seriously be a relative or an extremely close friend of Ryan... the post are never ending. I will say he has been playing well, but in all seriousness he is taking the third or fourth best forward with Starc usually taking the dangerous mid/small and Payne and Andrews taking the two big dogs.

Still Lester is doing his role and will get another extension for 2024.

 

[dlanod]

You must seriously be a relative or an extremely close friend of Ryan... the post are never ending. I will say he has been playing well, but in all seriousness he is taking the third or fourth best forward with Starc usually taking the dangerous mid/small and Payne and Andrews taking the two big dogs.

Still Lester is doing his role and will get another extension for 2024.

Nah he just does this with the player he has as a favourite on the list. Nothing specific to Lester.

 

[ZoBlitz]

Nah he just does this with the player he has as a favourite on the list. Nothing specific to Lester.

And sometimes he'll pick a player he arbitrarily hates too.

 

[BRAB]

Nah he just does this with the player he has as a favourite on the list. Nothing specific to Lester.

Always very annoying when a poster randomly picks a player to obsess over

 

[dlanod]

And sometimes he'll pick a player he arbitrarily hates too.

Two there always are...

 

[Sproj]

Two there always are...

Darth Darce and Savage Lester

 

[Dalions]

Six Things We Learned: Port's second wave demands respect

​

4) Brisbane's youngsters are worth the hype​

Over the past four-plus years of finals campaigns, Brisbane has stuck with a relatively settled, increasingly mature team. However, with a few injuries and the drop-off in form of veterans Daniel Rich

10

Daniel Rich

Age

35

Ht

183cm

Wt

95kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.7

5star

K

12.6

5star

HB

7.0

4star

M

3.4

3star

T

3.2

5star

MG

430.3

5star

D

14.9

4star

K

13.1

5star

HB

1.8

1star

M

3.8

4star

T

1.0

2star

MG

384.3

5star

D

16.2

4star

K

10.4

4star

HB

5.8

4star

M

2.6

3star

T

5.2

5star

and Jack Gunston

19

Jack Gunston

Age

33

Ht

193cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.5

4star

K

10.5

4star

HB

5.0

4star

M

5.7

5star

T

2.2

4star

G

1.9

5star

D

10.6

3star

K

8.0

3star

HB

2.6

2star

M

4.3

4star

T

1.7

3star

G

1.6

5star

D

11.2

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

4.2

4star

M

3.2

4star

T

2.6

4star

G

0.6

3star

, coach Chris Fagan wheeled out plenty of youth against the Swans on Friday night. In debutant Jaspa Fletcher, Will Ashcroft, Kai Lohmann and Darcy Wilmot, the Lions played four teenagers with a total of 29 games experience, and they did not disappoint. Ashcroft and Wilmot are regular, high-level contributors already, while Fletcher and Lohmann showed enough to suggest they will have long careers at the top level. With Hugh McCluggage

6

Hugh Mccluggage

Age

27

Ht

187cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.3

5star

K

11.4

4star

HB

7.9

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

3.0

5star

CL

2.2

4star

D

19.0

4star

K

12.0

5star

HB

7.0

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

2.9

4star

CL

2.0

4star

D

13.2

4star

K

7.8

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

4.2

4star

T

1.8

4star

CL

0.6

3star

(concussion) and Dayne Zorko

15

Dayne Zorko

Age

36

Ht

175cm

Wt

77kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.4

5star

K

13.2

5star

HB

8.2

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

6.0

5star

MG

440.5

5star

D

14.0

3star

K

9.0

4star

HB

5.0

3star

M

2.0

2star

T

5.0

5star

MG

291.0

4star

D

16.4

4star

K

9.8

4star

HB

6.6

4star

M

5.2

5star

T

6.6

5star

(calf) likely to return against St Kilda on Friday night, the selection squeeze is on. But Fagan should now be secure in the knowledge he can play his youngsters to not just help them to gain experience, but to see them contribute to winning football in a top-four team. – Michael Whiting

 

[3KZ is Football]

You must seriously be a relative or an extremely close friend of Ryan... the post are never ending. I will say he has been playing well, but in all seriousness he is taking the third or fourth best forward with Starc usually taking the dangerous mid/small and Payne and Andrews taking the two big dogs.

Still Lester is doing his role and will get another extension for 2024.

Uncle Ryan.

 

[briztoon]

Two there always are...

 

[Grasshopper17]

Our game plan sucks BIG TIME.

It genuinely inhibits players natural football instincts.

It doesn’t allow for taking the game on.

It doesn’t allow for any run and carry, unless we’re completely out in open space.

And we commit way to many players goal side in our forward 50. Which is why teams transition out of our D50 so easily.

This is really interesting, and I agree with it in part.

Very early on it, being at the ground it became evident we were just going to go long inside 50 to Fort or whoever else was there. Yes, it's predictable, yes the opposition know exactly what we're gonna do... But you still have to be able to stop it.

Darcy Fort took 1 mark for the night, which came in the third quarter, but got first (and only hands basically) to about 5 or 6 in the first half. If he marks even half of those, Sydney maybe are forced to take Blakey off him, and suddenly Fort is not nearly as exposed defensively by Blakey's run (not that he was terrible in that regard - better than Gunston anyway).

Anyway I thought we were just starting to get on top and figure out where and how to move to accommodate Fort rather than Gunston in our forward line... Then the last quarter starts, and Rayner goes to the goal square!

Now, don't get me wrong... I've been a big advocate for Rayner playing that tall forward role, but if you're gonna play it, then actually PLAY IT! He spent the whole last quarter getting sucked right up the ground, such that in the last quarter our attacking forays consisted of either: Charlie (and only Charlie) running back with the flight of a ball opposed to a bloke who had beaten him pretty comprehensively all night. OR we got repeat entries but our forward line was so crowded that we were forced to take pot shots from long range under pressure, all of which missed.

So having seen it all in action, I think Fort is absolutely worth persisting with as our tall focal point, at least for the next couple of weeks. And I wouldn't be subbing him out either. I felt like he was becoming more threatening the longer the game went (the big men don't get any shorter). I could be swayed if we're playing a game where we simply can't get out of our back half, and clearly need more run. Then Rayner needs to actually play the role, and not end up in the midfield. Hopefully it's something he is still working on learning.

However I think the way we use our smalls inside 50 needs a fair bit of work, which I guess you are alluding to with your last comment. Fully ready for the stats to prove me fully wrong on this, but I'd be betting that almost all our goals came from repeat 50 entries. Whenever the first one came in we'd often have a pretty open forward line, but usually the end result was a forward 50 stoppage at best. Cue congestion.

Possibly we need to be a little bit courageous, and not blindly follow our opponent inside 50. For a start, I think if we do that against St Kilda it will end in disaster, because they will beat us back the other way. By courage, I mean, be willing to be outnumbered inside forward 50, and trust the pressure from the blokes we DO have in there, to force either turnovers or hacked misdirected kicks to our spare players.

I guess this already happens to an extent, but what if we take the nuclear option, and see what happens if we only commit 5 or 6 blokes to an inside 50 stoppage. Everyone else, on or outside 50, or guarding the corridor. Maybe St Kilda has 12 inside 50 at the same stoppage. Why not see how we go? Can we put enough pressure to stop them chaining out by hand? Surely it won't be any less successful than the congestion we had on Friday night.

In general play I'd also like to see us more clearly define the role our smalls play. I think at times it's all a bit generic. What if we said to Charlie and Linc, "Forty is your man. Wherever he is, your job is to get front and centre to his marking contests." We might say the same thing to Cam and one winger for Joe. Zac and the other winger for Eric. Obviously interchanges and other in-game positional swaps come into this, but really specialise the roles, because I feel like at times some of our guys are a bit unsure of what to do and where to be. It's a bloody hard sport to play at times... Let's make things a bit easier and give these guys one less thing to worry about.

Then, once play has passed your tall player, don't blindly rush forward... Form part of that defensive wall/zone to inhibit any opposition rebound. I do agree with you in that we allowed too much transition from one end of the ground to the other, and it was as much Sydney's poor decision making and skill level going inside 50 as our great defence that prevented them from taking full advantage.



Only other thing I'd say with regards to your post is that I noticed probably as much if not more run from behind and handball receives after marks on Friday night, than in basically all our other games combined this year. To me it was a clear shift and I really liked it. The more we can bring McKenna, Wilmot, Coleman, even Zorko and McCluggage, into this phase of play, the more dangerous we will be. It will give us the opportunity to bypass our tall forwards going forward, opening up other avenues to goal.