Preview Round 14 - North Melbourne vs Brisbane Lions @ Bellerive Oval - Saturday 19/6/2021 4:35pm

[Sherrinator]

I love that every time we lose it's always blame the midfield like they're expected to dominate every game and not let the best players in the competition perform.

No backline can defend free running ball movement. Midfield HAS to perform. This is true for all teams.

We had a couple of players well down on fitness/game speed and the rest were cooked from that.

 

[Sherrinator]

Not necessarily true, case in point Richmond, don’t think they have genuinely dominated the midfield in the last two premiership years but they did hurt you on the scoreboard with their forward entries which was our downfall in the 2019 final series even though statistically we “dominated” both finals.

The midfield doesn’t need to dominate, just not let the other team have total free run. It’s a team defence that starts where the stoppage began.

 

[bungalow_bill]

I'm not expecting them to win us the game ,but there are always areas we can improve on.

Maybe on your reasoning we have to face up to the fact that if our M/F isn't on the better side of breaking even we will lose against very good teams. I can see the logic of that . If so we're going to struggle in big games because our M/F doesn't seem as potent ,at least on paper ,as some others.

We obviously need a Berry type back in, Neale a bit fitter, Oscar to break square in the ruck , Daniher to be a bit more competitive in the ruck. Bit M/F players like McCarthy and Bailey to give a bit more.

Berry back and Neale battle hardened will make a big difference. In the next year or two we will have Rayner back,two first round picks and Ashcroft junior. Perhaps Ely Smith will come on who knows. We'll be okay short term and more than okay long term.

 

[martinson]

If you accept the M/F is where games are won and lost , which most do , it doesn't stack up that M/F's get a free crack at it once the ball is bounced and if you look at the aerials are generally loose and often unmarked, whereas defenders are meant to man up on forwards , a lot of time is given to those 'matchups ' , which aren't overly relevant if you're losing the M/F battle.

Which makes it more critical than ever that you have M/F's who run hard both ways. You see plenty who bob up forward of centre , but not that many who get lots of possessions in the back half. I think that's where we have fallen down in the games where we've gotten smashed. Our forward set up is fine and gets lots of support when we're going well ,which explains the score spread , but when teams get a run on against us we just don't seem to get enough bodies back or in the holes to stem the tide. Neale is actually really good at winning the ball deep in defence and him being short of a run against Melbourne didn't help.

 

[Section 5]

Should win this game by 30+ points
Only see the forced changes of Zorko & Lester with Matho & Madden
Except for the round 1 Sydney game the Lions have beaten every team they were expected to easily account for
The Melbourne game is yesterdays news
The bye rounds and just after the bye rounds usually produce some upsets
We just don't want to be one of them that is my only concern
Neale should be better for the 1 game back and hopefully back to Brownlow form against the Cats

 

[fugitive]

The midfield doesn’t need to dominate, just not let the other team have total free run. It’s a team defence that starts where the stoppage began.

Don’t think we have allowed teams to have a “total free run” in any of the games last 2.5 years but we have struggled at stages in different aspects of the game, stoppages (prelim final) , inaccuracy (most of 2020) or turnovers (early 2019).

 

[Mr Taswegian]

I think they only got about 3,000 yesterday. Not sure it’ll be worth it

3500

 

[a mayes ing]

What was the difference between inside 50s for the two halves? What was the difference in the depths of inside 50s ( a stat that is equally important)?

People sheeplike intone midfield midfield midfield when they are only 33% of the [players on the field. Forwards can win matches against the flow.

Brownie, Cary or Matthews didn't worry about multiple inside 50s. They just got the pill.

Hipwood is starting to be a commanding presence and will get better as the season continues. I am hoping he becomes the superstar I thought he would become when he started four (5?) years ago.

Joe isn't going to kick 65 goals for us and be all Australian. Dan will get 8 disposals most weeks.

That made me think that after half a season he has definitly had a break out season to get to the next level. He isn't at that domant elite KPF level like the Frnaklins and Kennedys yet but l think he is just the level below it before getting there (hope that makes sense). I was starting to think he was only going to be a B grader after several years of staying at the same level. His CM is much better and starting to get it even while a defender is attached to him, and his goal kicking is signiicantly more accurate and reliable than previous years.

 

[martinson]

That made me think that after half a season he has definitly had a break out season to get to the next level. He isn't at that domant elite KPF level like the Frnaklins and Kennedys yet but l think he is just the level below it before getting there (hope that makes sense). I was starting to think he was only going to be a B grader after several years of staying at the same level. His CM is much better and starting to get it even while a defender is attached to him, and his goal kicking is signiicantly more accurate and reliable than previous years.

He's definitely still on the improve and has dominated games for a quarter to a half but doesn't really have that dominating presence as yet.

Maybe he'll never get to that elite level but even if he doesn't he's still a good player who can be very good on his day. And young enough to improve on that.

 

[briztoon]

Don’t think we have allowed teams to have a “total free run” in any of the games last 2.5 years but we have struggled at stages in different aspects of the game, stoppages (prelim final) , inaccuracy (most of 2020) or turnovers (early 2019).

Sydney pretty much had a free run in round 1.

 

[Suitcase]

I would've thought Berry junior is the better swap for Zorko. Can play a similar role and has a good burst of speed.

Matho seems slow for me. Slow at making decisions and not quick overall.

Agreed, we need someone to pressure and harrass like Zorko does. Tommy Berry is the obvious choice. Bringing in Matho makes us too slow and we will get hurt on the outside.

In: T.Berry, Madden
Out: Zorko, Lester

 

[Berrygood]

No to Matho for me. Nice guy, great clubman. I think he's had his shot in the 1s though, and I would prefer to expose some others to see if they have what it takes.

Tommy Joyce needs to come back through the 2s, but if Jarrod doesn't get up, Tommy Berry could be worth a run through the midfield in the 1s.

It's Norf, so I'd also consider moving Starce through the mids for a try, and subbing in Carter Michael off half back, but I think I'd prefer to see Starce get a preseason in the mids group before trying him at AFL level.

Starce was drafted as a mid, trained with the mids for the first cpl of seasons thru injuries. Wasn't making any headway as a mid, was given the opportunity to add a string to his bow at half back and hasn't looked back. That's his strength and his future, keep him where he is.

 

[Berrygood]

Lester out for 4wks I read somewhere. If Madden strings another set of good games together, he could surpass Lester and make the spot his own. B2 or Matho for Zorks. I'd prefer B2, I think he offers more fwd, more pressure, more pace and he doesn't mind doing the hard inside stuff either. I like Matho, he has certainly thrust himself above CEY in the pecking order, but B2 is a much more like for like replacement for Zorks.

We should beat North by 60. Bottom of the ladder, injuries galore, this should be a training run.

 

[lioninthesand]

If you are any good you beat Norf at Marvel, Tassie or on the moon. Shouldn't be a danger game. I think they will be in it until half time, they nearly always are - then we pull away for a decent win.

If we lose, it means we arn't very good.

I am not sure Dees are all they are cracked up to be, struggled againts North, lost to Crows and the Pies - not sure where that loss leaves us, especially after that first half, it's a weird one.

I think we just have Norf PTSD after last year's debacle againts them, that narrow win was embarrassing.

 

[Mighty Lions]

He's definitely still on the improve and has dominated games for a quarter to a half but doesn't really have that dominating presence as yet.

Maybe he'll never get to that elite level but even if he doesn't he's still a good player who can be very good on his day. And young enough to improve on that.

He may seem to have been around for plenty enough time to be the A Grader everyone expects him to be BUT history tells us that most KPF's do not peak until they are 26-27 years old. Hipwood is still in development stage and will continue to get better over the next 2-3 years if not more.

 

[Mighty Lions]

Starce was drafted as a mid, trained with the mids for the first cpl of seasons thru injuries. Wasn't making any headway as a mid, was given the opportunity to add a string to his bow at half back and hasn't looked back. That's his strength and his future, keep him where he is.

I see Starce eventually being tried in the midfield 100% but right now he is way to valuable where he is now. Gardner out (probably for the season) really does change our backline significantly so I can't see any change for him until maybe 2022. If Madden can come on, that would be huge along with Payne continuing his form before he was injured. The quicker this happens, the better & more settled our backline will be.

 

[fugitive]

Sydney pretty much had a free run in round 1.

Yeah in the second half they did.

 

[briztoon]

Yeah in the second half they did.

From about halfway through the first quarter.

 

[Pride of lions]

Cunnington is the danger man in this game,his inside work is elite. He isn’t quick but he gets the ball out to their runners and sets them up really well. They are a different team since his return from injury. We have to clamp down on him as our number one priority. I think Matho could be the one to do it.

 

[Warwick]

Noble will know our game plan better than most. That’s a concern. As a few people have mentioned, we certainly looked a move ahead of Hawthorn when Fages arrived.

We tend to play quite well in Tasmania, and by virtue of the last few pre seasons there, Hobart shouldn’t hold too many fears. I’d actually prefer playing there than at Marvel.

We need to get on top early because if they get a sniff, belief will grow. We should get enough chances as they can butcher the ball better than most. The more ball in the hands of Ziebell and Walker coming out of defence, the better for us. Both love the big booming no-look throw on the boot.

Our midfield is obviously below strength with our outs but I don’t rate their brigade. LDU goes AWOL for extended periods of time. Simpkin is extremely overrated - very vanilla. Cunnington obviously a threat. Powell looks a good one as well.

Hopefully our class shines through. We need our quality users like Hugh, Rich, Starce, and Bailey to be spotting up targets inside 50. Do they have anyone to go with Charlie?

 

[Section 5]

He may seem to have been around for plenty enough time to be the A Grader everyone expects him to be BUT history tells us that most KPF's do not peak until they are 26-27 years old. Hipwood is still in development stage and will continue to get better over the next 2-3 years if not more.

Agree. This year i expected gradual improvement. So far he has delivered
His disposals and importantly marks have improved. So has his goal kicking due to kicking over the man on the mark
I was hoping for a 2 goal average this year. To date sitting just below that with 1.9
His frame looks like he may not fill out, but more seasons in the gym should do the trick
Franklin & Hawkins took time to build their bodies up so hopefully the same with Hippy
Two photos below of Franklin & Hawkins from 2010
When Hippy's biceps are big enough he just needs to put lots of oil on them like these two do as well as other players (Selwood & Dangerfield) .
Should be banned but is allowed

 

[Suitcase]

Does anyone know when/where we can get tickets for this one?

 

[Mr Taswegian]

Does anyone know when/where we can get tickets for this one?

Tickets to general public available tomorrow through Ticketmaster.

 

[bungalow_bill]

Noble will know our game plan better than most. That’s a concern. As a few people have mentioned, we certainly looked a move ahead of Hawthorn when Fages arrived.

At that stage we were a very good team and the Hawks were on the decline so probably would have beaten them either way. North are not a very good team and we are on the rise so different situations

 

[Warwick]

At that stage we were a very good team and the Hawks were on the decline so probably would have beaten them either way. North are not a very good team and we are on the rise so different situations

While they weren’t as dominate as their 3-peat years, we still beat them twice in 2018. That year we finished bottom 4, the Hawks were a top 4 team.