Autopsy Round 15, 2019: St.Kilda v Richmond

The_Steadier

Norm Smith Medallist
May 6, 2009
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This is actually what’s wrong with our midfield, the perception is that we get smashed week in week out in clearances.

That’s not true, we were down by under 30 clearances over 13 games. A couple of extra clearances per game isn’t our problem.
Our midfield get smashed in sheer number of possessions.
 

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plugger66

Brownlow Medallist
Jan 10, 2011
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Seb Ross's half time interview was hilarious. It was like he didnt realise that at half time of the previous weeks game we were right in it too, but apparently they were already much improved on the previous weeks showing.
Do you look for anything you can find that is negative. Anyway only 8 weeks and you are done as a supporter
 

Browny2Carlisle

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May 2, 2017
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I don't see how us needing another tall target on the field equates to making Marshall a forward who pinch hits in the ruck and bringing in a different ruckman.

Marshall plays his best football when in the ruck. His best attributes suit being around the ball as much as possible. He as the running capacity to outwork many other ruckman. Keep him where he is playing his best football.

Find someone else who can play that role while Marshall is having a rest and keep Marshall in his best role.
Very odd considering King will likely play most games next year. Unless rooey and dal really don't rate Bruce?
 

VDS66

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 4, 2011
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I don't see how us needing another tall target on the field equates to making Marshall a forward who pinch hits in the ruck and bringing in a different ruckman.

Marshall plays his best football when in the ruck. His best attributes suit being around the ball as much as possible. He as the running capacity to outwork many other ruckman. Keep him where he is playing his best football.

Find someone else who can play that role while Marshall is having a rest and keep Marshall in his best role.
No issue with what you say.

If Roma is number one ruck then we need a capable number two to chop out.

We don't have that. Neither Bruce nor acres are any good.

No point keeping a ruck on the bench for all but 10 minutes of the game IMO.
 

VDS66

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 4, 2011
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Do you look for anything you can find that is negative. Anyway only 8 weeks and you are done as a supporter
Seb should have said we are doing OK, but because we are crap, we expect Richmond to over run us in the second half...
 

plugger66

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Seb should have said we are doing OK, but because we are crap, we expect Richmond to over run us in the second half...
He could have de facto is the best poster ever and he would find fault
 

pebblesofsand

Premiership Player
Oct 18, 2011
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No issue with what you say.

If Roma is number one ruck then we need a capable number two to chop out.

We don't have that. Neither Bruce nor acres are any good.

No point keeping a ruck on the bench for all but 10 minutes of the game IMO.
Yep - anybody who watched that game yesterday and thinks we will be come a force with Marshall as our sole competent ruck option is delusional.

But then again apparently Dal Santo and Rooey (what have they ever done!!!) are also delusional for suggesting that if we did actually have another competent ruckman, Marshall may actually prove more valuable to us playing forward.

UTTER MADNESS!!!!!
 

VDS66

Brownlow Medallist
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Yep - anybody who watched that game yesterday and thinks we will be come a force with Marshall as our sole competent ruck option is delusional.

But then again apparently Dal Santo and Rooey (what have they ever done!!!) are also delusional for suggesting that if we did actually have another competent ruckman, Marshall may actually prove more valuable to us playing forward.

UTTER MADNESS!!!!!
What do you suggest?
 

plugger66

Brownlow Medallist
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Yep - anybody who watched that game yesterday and thinks we will be come a force with Marshall as our sole competent ruck option is delusional.

But then again apparently Dal Santo and Rooey (what have they ever done!!!) are also delusional for suggesting that if we did actually have another competent ruckman, Marshall may actually prove more valuable to us playing forward.

UTTER MADNESS!!!!!
So we just use their opinions now. Ok then. I prefer Marshall in the ruck. Shoot me.

You wanted longer rucking if fit. Dal has said he isn’t up to it so I suppose you can’t have that opinion now
 

tomsimpkin31

Premiership Player
Jun 15, 2011
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Yep - anybody who watched that game yesterday and thinks we will be come a force with Marshall as our sole competent ruck option is delusional.

But then again apparently Dal Santo and Rooey (what have they ever done!!!) are also delusional for suggesting that if we did actually have another competent ruckman, Marshall may actually prove more valuable to us playing forward.

UTTER MADNESS!!!!!
We won clearances by 7. We had seven more hit outs to advantage than they did. Ruck was clearly not an issue. That isn't delusion.

Chol's goal from the ruck at the end was not a personnel issue but a communication one. No one is denying that we should get a better second ruck than Bruce. They are objecting the the idea the Marshall should play forward when he is already the best ruckman we have had in years.
 

SaintsSeptember

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Problem being- we've been rebuilding for 8 years already.

"This group" wont be around in a couple of years.

Guys like billings, carlisle, steele, acres, savage etc will be all but impossible to keep if we don't start playing finals asap.
Not 8 years.

Watters convinced the club that he could get results with a top up.
He then announced the rebuild slightly before he was sacked.
 

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Mowman

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May 19, 2013
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Very odd considering King will likely play most games next year. Unless rooey and dal really don't rate Bruce?
King - Marshall -Membrey as our talls with Goldie ruck and trade Bruce out for a half decent pick.
Who says Marshall is not 50 - 60 goal forward remember Bruce came to us as a CHB
Not saying this will happen but we need to try/do something different next year after this year and last
And i personally rate what Roo & Dal say about Footy.
 

VDS66

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 4, 2011
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So we just use their opinions now. Ok then. I prefer Marshall in the ruck. Shoot me.

You wanted longer rucking if fit. Dal has said he isn’t up to it so I suppose you can’t have that opinion now
You've always argued that hit outs are useless, so why not have a specialist ruck and let Marshall play as a follower and relief ruck?
 

Yawkey way

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Our midfield get smashed in sheer number of possessions.
Do they? I haven’t bothered to look to be honest but my gut feeling is that Ross, billing’s, Gresham, Steele and others have all found plenty of the football.

You would need to know who played minutes in the midfield for both teams etc.


You can see by the team stats that we’re poorly rated against the competition in most stats, but 19+ disposals down a week on average doesn’t require much to even things up. I’d suggest from a quick look at the numbers that we’re not doing a lot right which is down to skills and game plan imo.
 

VDS66

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We won clearances by 7. We had seven more hit outs to advantage than they did. Ruck was clearly not an issue. That isn't delusion.

Chol's goal from the ruck at the end was not a personnel issue but a communication one. No one is denying that we should get a better second ruck than Bruce. They are objecting the the idea the Marshall should play forward when he is already the best ruckman we have had in years.
I'd be interested to see how many goals they scored when Marshall was on the bench.
 

The Punter

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Just on the second ruck question long term, Max King is 202cm. Surely it's him?
 

tomsimpkin31

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I'd be interested to see how many goals they scored when Marshall was on the bench.
Yeah it would be interesting. He was on the ground for 89% though so it couldn't have been that many, even if it had that feel.
 

VDS66

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Do they? I haven’t bothered to look to be honest but my gut feeling is that Ross, billing’s, Gresham, Steele and others have all found plenty of the football.

You would need to know who played minutes in the midfield for both teams etc.


You can see by the team stats that we’re poorly rated against the competition in most stats, but 19+ disposals down a week on average doesn’t require much to even things up. I’d suggest from a quick look at the numbers that we’re not doing a lot right which is down to skills and game plan imo.
+19 down on average is a poor measure.

You need to look at the differentiation against stronger teams.

We do ok against poorer teams.
 

Yawkey way

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King - Marshall -Membrey as our talls with Goldie ruck and trade Bruce out for a half decent pick.
Who says Marshall is not 50 - 60 goal forward remember Bruce came to us as a CHB
Not saying this will happen but we need to try/do something different next year after this year and last
And i personally rate what Roo & Dal say about Footy.
Can’t fit king, Bruce, Marshall and membrey in so it makes sense to listen to offers for Bruce.

Goldstein is a free hit and a bloody good player, I guess it depends on what sort of offers Bruce gets. Seems like a waste of time unless it’s a good pick wasn’t the rumour Collingwood were interested last year for a late first rounder.
 

majortinkle

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Jul 21, 2015
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So we just use their opinions now. Ok then. I prefer Marshall in the ruck. Shoot me.

You wanted longer rucking if fit. Dal has said he isn’t up to it so I suppose you can’t have that opinion now
It smacks of lazy ex-player journalism to me.

I reckon they were in and about the place in pre season and we were spruiking Marshall as a forward at the time and they're just quoting old itk info while ignoring what they can see with their own eyes every game since.
 

pebblesofsand

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What do you suggest?
Find another competent ruckman - and then we can test my theory (and apparently Rooey's and Dal's) that Marshall may have actually improved as a FOOTBALLER and COULD provide more value to the team as a forward/ruck rather than simply playing as a ruckman.

But then again - maybe the answer is that he's only improved in those areas that are relevant to rucking and hasn't advanced in any way in forward skills. (Like marking and kicking goals from outside 50)

Every time Bruce or Acres went into the ruck on Sunday we got destroyed - thankfully the club are trying to redress that situation.
 

Yawkey way

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+19 down on average is a poor measure.

You need to look at the differentiation against stronger teams.

We do ok against poorer teams.
I haven’t done more than just click on it at this stage but sheer weight of numbers often doesn’t translate into a win.

I just jumped to the AFL match day site, Collingwood are the best team we’ve played and they had 70 more but their also a team that plays a high possession game. GWS we were 59 down that’s a fair bite out of the differential just against those two teams. That tends to back up my impression most weeks were not getting smashed in the numbers we just use it very poorly together with a lousy game plan.
 

VDS66

Brownlow Medallist
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I haven’t done more than just click on it at this stage but sheer weight of numbers often doesn’t translate into a win.

I just jumped to the AFL match day site, Collingwood are the best team we’ve played and they had 70 more but their also a team that plays a high possession game. GWS we were 59 down that’s a fair bite out of the differential just against those two teams. That tends to back up my impression most weeks were not getting smashed in the numbers we just use it very poorly together with a lousy game plan.
Quality of disposal? Absolutely
 

BrutThough

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Find another competent ruckman - and then we can test my theory (and apparently Rooey's and Dal's) that Marshall may have actually improved as a FOOTBALLER and COULD provide more value to the team as a forward/ruck rather than simply playing as a ruckman.

But then again - maybe the answer is that he's only improved in those areas that are relevant to rucking and hasn't advanced in any way in forward skills. (Like marking and kicking goals from outside 50)

Every time Bruce or Acres went into the ruck on Sunday we got destroyed - thankfully the club are at trying to redress that situation.
What would you say Marshall's best attributes as a footballer are and what areas does he excel in?
 
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