Autopsy Round 15, 2019: St.Kilda v Richmond

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stfan

Premiership Player
Mar 12, 2008
3,068
3,188
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St Kilda
Marshall is the best ruck we have had since Gardiner and before that Spider.

It is rare for StKilda to have more than a battler in the ruck.

Marshall never looked this good as a key forward at Sandi.

His moment is now. Let him learn and grow as a No1 Ruck. We may well be seeing the birth of the greatest St Kilda ruck ever. He is not there yet, but he has all the tools, he has the desire, he has the swagger, he has the competitiveness. All this and only a small number of games from rucking in the firsts. So let us give him the opportunity to see just how good he can be.

I watched Spider play a reserves game at Kardinia Park and in that one game I just knew he was a special talent. Marshall is the first young StKilda ruck since that I am equally excited about. Indeed I am probably more excited about.
 

dct66

Premium Gold
Jun 19, 2014
1,263
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Twice Martin dropped the ball - wasn’t paid , then resulted in goals for them
Umpires absolutely favour Martin when he busts thru packs and drops the ball
To me this sums up why our pressure at all cost game plan does not work. The AFL want the game to be quick and free flowing which means that in recent years HTB has been ignored more and more often. Pressure only works when you have the correct structure forward of the ball and you force a mis-kick that you can intercept. You then need the the structure and skills to rebound quickly and create the shot at goal.

Manic two or three on one tackling is a losing game because you will only get maybe 1 in 4 incorrect disposals paid. When it does come loose the opposition have spare players to take the ball away.

It's not just Martin who gets favoured, it's every player in the league and it is a directive from HQ for a fast game. Martin is just one of the best exponents of it.
 

BigMonty

Premium Gold
Feb 20, 2014
487
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St Kilda
Find it amusing that by suggesting Bruce is poor I suddenly have no idea about football. Meanwhile people two weeks ago saying Clark is a bust. Surely we are all entitled to an opinion without being ridiculed? Maybe labelling him as 'lazy' wasn't the right word, but he plays without a lot of intensity and seems to me to make dumb decisions. His lead patterns are messy. If the kick to him isn't perfect he often gets outmarked. He gives away unnecessary free-kicks.

At the end of the day that's just my opinion and I really don't understand why a player like Bruce, one of our senior guys, is beyond reproach. End of the day he isn't losing his spot anytime soon because he's doing second ruck duties but I really hope he tries to improve as a player because we need him to be much better.
Don't get the lack of love for Broooose. He scrambles hard competes hard and is often against two players. My knock on him is that he has hard hands.

Watch him next time the ball bounces out from his grasp quite often. He would be aware of that and that needs addressing.

His endeavour however does not. Times he can be too desperate to get it and go and misses the outlet handball...happened a few times on Sunday.

Still is the one who looks most likely to take a pack mark from a stationary to stationary set up play. Membrey needs movement and is much more reliable than Bruce in that instance.

Marshall on the wing in a mobile pack marking sutuation is okay but not seen him take many pack marks inside 50.

Quick ball movement does not allow defenders to set up. Tall players are then at a real advantage if the ball can be kicked into space where height and reach are an advantage.
 

CaptainRisky

Premium Platinum
Oct 16, 2016
2,288
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Melbourne CBD
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St Kilda
Find it amusing that by suggesting Bruce is poor I suddenly have no idea about football. Meanwhile people two weeks ago saying Clark is a bust. Surely we are all entitled to an opinion without being ridiculed? Maybe labelling him as 'lazy' wasn't the right word, but he plays without a lot of intensity and seems to me to make dumb decisions. His lead patterns are messy. If the kick to him isn't perfect he often gets outmarked. He gives away unnecessary free-kicks.

At the end of the day that's just my opinion and I really don't understand why a player like Bruce, one of our senior guys, is beyond reproach. End of the day he isn't losing his spot anytime soon because he's doing second ruck duties but I really hope he tries to improve as a player because we need him to be much better.
Man , you sure put some mayo on that post , You didnt just suggest he was poor , you had a fair crack at him and yes he could play better but so could about another 15-16 players and he has hardly been our worst player .
To suggest he would be in the Twos if paddy was right is a bit of a stretch , Paddy was gifted so many games it wasnt funny and is or was no where near a walk up best 22, as for you comment about Clark i dont understand why you would bring that into this conversation as i never mentioned it .
Ps , i hardly feel you have been ridiculed mate , you had a fair crack at Bruce when there are plenty worse than him playing in far easier positions
 

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DT_35

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 14, 2010
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To me this sums up why our pressure at all cost game plan does not work. The AFL want the game to be quick and free flowing which means that in recent years HTB has been ignored more and more often. Pressure only works when you have the correct structure forward of the ball and you force a mis-kick that you can intercept. You then need the the structure and skills to rebound quickly and create the shot at goal.

Manic two or three on one tackling is a losing game because you will only get maybe 1 in 4 incorrect disposals paid. When it does come loose the opposition have spare players to take the ball away.

It's not just Martin who gets favoured, it's every player in the league and it is a directive from HQ for a fast game. Martin is just one of the best exponents of it.

Yet we get pinged for every single one. It’s bulls***
 

pebblesofsand

Premiership Player
Oct 18, 2011
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Find it amusing that by suggesting Bruce is poor I suddenly have no idea about football. Meanwhile people two weeks ago saying Clark is a bust. Surely we are all entitled to an opinion without being ridiculed? Maybe labelling him as 'lazy' wasn't the right word, but he plays without a lot of intensity and seems to me to make dumb decisions. His lead patterns are messy. If the kick to him isn't perfect he often gets outmarked. He gives away unnecessary free-kicks.

At the end of the day that's just my opinion and I really don't understand why a player like Bruce, one of our senior guys, is beyond reproach. End of the day he isn't losing his spot anytime soon because he's doing second ruck duties but I really hope he tries to improve as a player because we need him to be much better.
"Surely we are all entitled to an opinion without being ridiculed?"

A bit rich coming from poster who feels free to ridicule Bruce from the security of anonymity.

You know you said much more than "Bruce was lazy" - guess that's why your post was moderated.
 

SaintsSeptember

Hall of Famer
Mar 19, 2008
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Don't get the lack of love for Broooose. He scrambles hard competes hard and is often against two players. My knock on him is that he has hard hands.

Watch him next time the ball bounces out from his grasp quite often. He would be aware of that and that needs addressing.

His endeavour however does not. Times he can be too desperate to get it and go and misses the outlet handball...happened a few times on Sunday.

Still is the one who looks most likely to take a pack mark from a stationary to stationary set up play. Membrey needs movement and is much more reliable than Bruce in that instance.

Marshall on the wing in a mobile pack marking sutuation is okay but not seen him take many pack marks inside 50.

Quick ball movement does not allow defenders to set up. Tall players are then at a real advantage if the ball can be kicked into space where height and reach are an advantage.
When Milne was on the radio the other day , he jokingly talked about getting told off ( back in the day ) for going for the Mark.
Now anyone who saw the Essendon game in 2008 would know that Milney was a terrific mark for his size , but the coach wanted him to crumb, not go for Marks.

Now is it just my imagination , or are some of our smalls going for the ball as it comes in, rather than leaving it for the tall's and assuming its going to go to the deck, and waiting and watching for that?
 

tomsimpkin31

Premiership Player
Jun 15, 2011
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Second viewing, halfway through the second, we had gotten it 42-19 on the scoreboard.

Long was even better til this point than I realised on the day. Clark awesome as well so far, but Long was best on til this point I reckon. Every touch he's had has pretty much led to a goal. Him, Sinclair and Parker have linked up really well. Parker better than I thought live.

As referenced, Clark terrific. Won every one on one he's had and distributed cleanly. Pounced on any errant kicks really well at ground level, hence his high intercept numbers for the day.

Battle is going really well as a defender but he's had a few poor moments these last two weeks. Obviously worth persisting down back for the overall good it brings, but he needs to iron out these moments. His long kick straight to a Richmond player in the first qtr was seriously weird, had absolutely no pressure on him and I still can't work out who he was trying to kick it to. Then he zones off on Chol so he can go and guard the boundary line and Chol takes an uncontested mark and kicks truly. Then early in the second he panics and tackles Stack without it, again leading to a goal. His distribution is generally terrific though and his one on one ability is strong. I'm looking forward to him adding more intercepting to his game and getting rid of the brain snaps. Will be a genuinely really good KPD once he does.
 

lewdogs

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Jun 4, 2008
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"Surely we are all entitled to an opinion without being ridiculed?"

A bit rich coming from poster who feels free to ridicule Bruce from the security of anonymity.

You know you said much more than "Bruce was lazy" - guess that's why your post was moderated.
What are you on about? My post wasn't moderated. I said Bruce was lazy yes, I'm not saying he's a bad person in fact I'm sure he's a bloody legend. But he needs to work harder as a footballer in my opinion. Heard players called a lot worse on here so I don't know why you have such a cry just because it's Bruce. As for this 'the security of anonymity' nonsense, this is anonymous forum where we discuss football isn't it? Or do I need to give out my name and number anytime I criticise a player?
 

VDS66

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 4, 2011
19,724
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What are you on about? My post wasn't moderated. I said Bruce was lazy yes, I'm not saying he's a bad person in fact I'm sure he's a bloody legend. But he needs to work harder as a footballer in my opinion. Heard players called a lot worse on here so I don't know why you have such a cry just because it's Bruce. As for this 'the security of anonymity' nonsense, this is anonymous forum where we discuss football isn't it? Or do I need to give out my name and number anytime I criticise a player?
Disagree on Bruce but I'll back you on the rest of that post.
 

gringo2011

Premium Gold
Nov 12, 2011
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This is spot on. I reckon we have some quality players on our list, but we seem to try not to make errors rather that be agressive with the ball. Guys like Billings, Sinclair, Clark, Coff should not be just kicking down the line unless absolutely necessary. We need to be more damaging with ball in hand. We were in the 1st half, but went into our shell in the 2nd i reckon and tried not to lose, rather than tried to win

This is what I hope a new coach might change, we play not to lose. Letting guys like Acres go and be creative rather than punishing the players when they choose to make assertive calls could make a lot of our beige players all of a sudden a lot more colourful.
 

gringo2011

Premium Gold
Nov 12, 2011
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When did Lenny Hayes retire? 8-9 years ago? I cant believe an entire football club in that time has not been able to draft, develop or trade in have one All Australian standard midfielder over that time? How can that level of incompetence be perpetuated over and over again over that period of time?

We now have Hannebrey but will he ever get to All Australian levels again?

Feels like a long time since we have had an AA player.
 

gringo2011

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Nov 12, 2011
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What are you on about? My post wasn't moderated. I said Bruce was lazy yes, I'm not saying he's a bad person in fact I'm sure he's a bloody legend. But he needs to work harder as a footballer in my opinion. Heard players called a lot worse on here so I don't know why you have such a cry just because it's Bruce. As for this 'the security of anonymity' nonsense, this is anonymous forum where we discuss football isn't it? Or do I need to give out my name and number anytime I criticise a player?

Bruce would be the least lazy KPF in the AFL. His one year where he camped up forward he kicked 50 goals, since then he has had to run back to defence then stream forward to create a target. He rucks as well and runs multiple leads. He's probably lacking elite traits but lazy would be the last thing I would call Bruce.
 
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