Autopsy Round 15, 2021: Richmond v St.Kilda *CONNOLLY DEBUT*

[Ducky Tie]

The funniest theory I read on here was that it was a great idea for Howard to be doing the kick outs, as to allow him to remain deep when a repeat inside 50 came back…

It's been strange all year. I found it a bit concerning at the Q&A last week when Ratten said that they don't want Howard to be taking most of the kick outs and that they've been talking to Dougal about it on an ongoing basis. Reading between the lines, I'm taking that as an indication that Dougal is a very strong personality who isn't great at sharing the load with these types of things. I love his energy and how vocal he is, but it's been weird all season and is one of the many small issues that has taken too long to be rectified.

 

[BrutThough]

Long wasn't playing good footy. He was at risk of getting dropped most weeks. And Webster was doubtful to get back to his best missing basically 3 years of footy going into this year. You're telling me that there wasn't one game where Long could've made way for Hind?

Long was playing good footy last year. Saying he was at risk at getting dropped most weeks is re-writing history based off his 2021 form.

 

[Premium]

Would keep Dunstan over Ross.

Dunstan , Ross and Billings still have not signed a contract so they all might be playing else

 

[Moral Decay]

Dunstan , Ross and Billings still have not signed a contract so they all might be playing else

Have they been offered contracts?

 

[Premium]

Have they been offered contracts?

don't know

 

[AirWinmar]

It's been strange all year. I found it a bit concerning at the Q&A last week when Ratten said that they don't want Howard to be taking most of the kick outs and that they've been talking to Dougal about it on an ongoing basis. Reading between the lines, I'm taking that as an indication that Dougal is a very strong personality who isn't great at sharing the load with these types of things. I love his energy and how vocal he is, but it's been weird all season and is one of the many small issues that has taken too long to be rectified.

That was very strange. Surely even if his team mates are too nice to demand it on gameday, surely the coaches would direct the players who should be kicking out..

 

[Crusty Undies]

Long was playing good footy last year. Saying he was at risk at getting dropped most weeks is re-writing history based off his 2021 form.

Nah not really. He played 15 games last year with these averages.

If you think a HBF who was moved around and averaged just over 12 touches for just under 3 clangers per game wasn't at risk of being dropped I have news for you.

 

[Roo Ted 77]

Our year has been shocking so far and heart breaking for all the diehard supporters like yourself , the win over the Tigers just showed there is light at the end of the tunnel.
We are far from the finished product and the up and coming trade and draft period is going to be interesting what they do.

We now have King / 20 , Higgins / 22 , Coffield / 21 , Clark / 22 , Paton / 22 , Battle / 22, Byrne / 20, Bytel / 21 , Connolly / 19 , Highmore / 23 who have shown they are AFL grade and they are all 23 or under and I'm not even including Cavarino / 22 , Allison / 19 , Sharman or Heath and on top of that we have a core of players that are at 25 and starting to produce there best football in Steele , Jones / 26 , Billings , Marshall , Howard , Butler , Wilkie , Sinclair , Gresham / 24 , Long / 24 , DMac / 25

This is about 21 players 25 or under and then bring in the old stagers in Hill , Membery , Webster , Crouch , Ross , Ryder , Dunstan and I feel they all have 3 or more years left except for Ryder so we really have a young side.

So do they go all out in the draft or take our first round draft pick for the best kid and then trade for a player we desperately need like another key position player.

If I had my way we would be trimming a bit of deadwood this year. Three to retire. Three (2 of them RFA's) to let explore their options with one of them being delisted if nothing suitable is thrown his way. There's probably only two others I'd delist too. If that was to eventuate we'd have ten list spots up for grabs with the two we didn't use at the mid-season draft. Not sure what we'd get in return for those three but could maybe trade two of those picks to go higher this year or next. Four draftees to me is a good number. Definitely take the highest utility available then if we end up with a high second then take a key defender if there's one available. The pre-season draft can be a goldmine so taking another three out of there and leaving three picks for the mid-season draft next year just in case. There's also the possibility of players wanting to come to the Saints and other then Ben King I don't know who they're trying to lure. I think we'd have to give up too much for Ben and unless him or Max are willing to play ruck as well or Ben goes back to playing a key defender I don't know how he would slot into the side. Would love to see him as a key defender. Saw him up close and personal play at Aspley 2 yrs ago and the kid has some athletic ability and fire in the belly and I'm sure he played junior footy down back? Personally I think to be a long term successful club you need to be building nearly two teams. One AFL and one VFL. I also think building from the bottom has more longevity and builds better culture at a club.

 

[busso_mick]

Dunstan , Ross and Billings still have not signed a contract so they all might be playing else

I would not be surprised if Dunstan decided to leave. The way he is playing is almost like he is proving a point to the Saints.

Good on him from coming back from the abyss. His best is really good, lets hope he can finish off this year like he has been performing recently.

I would rather he stay with us, but if he keeps perfoming then our return in a draft pick currency might be better than previously thought.

 

[kernelT]

This Autopsy thread is 90 pages off the Adelaide one last week… lame.

 

[BrutThough]

Nah not really. He played 15 games last year with these averages.
View attachment 1167099
If you think a HBF who was moved around and averaged just over 12 touches for just under 3 clangers per game wasn't at risk of being dropped I have news for you.

Long being dropped was rarely a discussion on here. Maybe after the Gold Coast before it was determined he was doing a lock down job on about 4 of their small forwards at once. Other than that, the backline was seen as being very settled and performing well as a unit.

Saying he was in danger of being dropped is complete hindsight and if he was dropped, it would have been Savage next in line to replace him rather someone playing at half forward.

 

[Grav]

Long was playing good footy last year. Saying he was at risk at getting dropped most weeks is re-writing history based off his 2021 form.

Trouble with Long last year, he was playing too much like David Mackay and getting rubbed out.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

I prefer Gresh forward to the midfield. I'd like to see him rotate with Snaggs and even Longy if it be the case.
I'm also of my own opinion that stress fractures in the back last year and an achilles this year point strongly to overloading him physically.

I don’t get this obsession with Gresh as a forward. He’s our most dynamic midfielder & his loss caused our midfield to lose its way two years running. Rotating with Snags is ideal but it has to be 75- Gresh 25- Snags IMO.

Back stress fractures dont occur because he’s playing in the guts… they usually occur due to poor technique in the gym or similar.

An achilles can happen anywhere on the field. Its just a freak injury that has little to do with conditioning in an elite athlete. Roughy did his playing forward, Durant did his just changing direction.


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[gringo2011]

I don’t get this obsession with Gresh as a forward. He’s our most dynamic midfielder & his loss caused our midfield to lose its way two years running. Rotating with Snags is ideal but it has to be 75- Gresh 25- Snags IMO.

Back stress fractures dont occur because he’s playing in the guts… they usually occur due to poor technique in the gym or similar.

An achilles can happen anywhere on the field. Its just a freak injury that has little to do with conditioning in an elite athlete. Roughy did his playing forward, Durant did his just changing direction.


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Jones is our most dynamic IMO. Gresham is a good mid but an excellent small forward. He won multiple games for us as a forward. I'd use him like De Goey, Petracca or Dusty. Mostly forward but wth runs on ball.

 

[BrutThough]

Jones is our most dynamic IMO. Gresham is a good mid but an excellent small forward. He won multiple games for us as a forward. I'd use him like De Goey, Petracca or Dusty. Mostly forward but wth runs on ball.

The two full games Gresh played this year

29 disposals, 6 marks,10 inside 50s, 9 clearances (4 centre, 5 stoppage), 6 score involvements from 75% TOG

28 disposals, 5 marks, 7 inside 50s, 5 clearances (3 centre, 2 stoppage), 5 score involvements from 67% TOG

Those are the stats of someone who is a full time midfielder. And that was him roving to Paul Hunter. Imagine what he could do with a good ruckman.

 

[busso_mick]

Jones is our most dynamic IMO. Gresham is a good mid but an excellent small forward. He won multiple games for us as a forward. I'd use him like De Goey, Petracca or Dusty. Mostly forward but wth runs on ball.

I feel that Gresh is the most mercurial player on our list and one that opposing coaches would worry about. It is a pity that injury has cruelled his past 2 seasons as he was ready to progress with his midfield craft this year.

With the shorter interchanges this year and a possible further reduction next year he will be able to mix the onball and forward roles, pending his fitness levels. Jones is quick and tough and important for us, Gresh has the X factor that can turn a game. Lets hope Paddy can play on next year as I reckon they would be perfect together in clearances. Midfielders that can sniff out a goal or two are like diamonds.

 

[gringo2011]

The two full games Gresh played this year

29 disposals, 6 marks,10 inside 50s, 9 clearances (4 centre, 5 stoppage), 6 score involvements from 75% TOG

28 disposals, 5 marks, 7 inside 50s, 5 clearances (3 centre, 2 stoppage), 5 score involvements from 67% TOG

Those are the stats of someone who is a full time midfielder. And that was him roving to Paul Hunter. Imagine what he could do with a good ruckman.

I get that he's good as a mid that's not in dispute but he's also a messy kick and kicks high bombs to no-one. As a small forward with runs on the ball he hurts on the score board and still gets to impact the midfield in bursts. His body has broken down twice since moving to the mids.

I still remember the games that he broke open when they were in stale-mate as a forward. The win down in Geelong for example.

 

[BrutThough]

I get that he's good as a mid that's not in dispute but he's also a messy kick and kicks high bombs to no-one. As a small forward with runs on the ball he hurts on the score board and still gets to impact the midfield in bursts. His body has broken down twice since moving to the mids.

I still remember the games that he broke open when they were in stale-mate as a forward. The win down in Geelong for example.

He hasn't played as a permanent small forward since mid 2018.

And his body didnt break down because he was playing midfield after 18-24 months of already playing predominantly in that position. It was just some bad injury luck after he managed to play the first 4 years of his career without any setbacks.

You don't play someone as with that much ball winning ability ability as a small forward. Especially when our midfield is so drab and calling out for someone for someone as creative and dynamic as Gresh.

 

[kernelT]

I didn't really mind where they play, but would just like to have both Jones & Gresham actually playing.

If either of them come back in as mids and get injured within a month then we're going to need a different plan.

No good having electric players up in the stands.

 

[ScrappyDo]

I don’t get this obsession with Gresh as a forward. He’s our most dynamic midfielder & his loss caused our midfield to lose its way two years running. Rotating with Snags is ideal but it has to be 75- Gresh 25- Snags IMO.

Back stress fractures dont occur because he’s playing in the guts… they usually occur due to poor technique in the gym or similar.

An achilles can happen anywhere on the field. Its just a freak injury that has little to do with conditioning in an elite athlete. Roughy did his playing forward, Durant did his just changing direction.


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I have to disagree here. Stress fractures are from overloading over time. The achilles could be random or from prolonged overloading.
Gresh was shaping as an elite goal sneak and there's no harm in dropping his loading and have him rotate forward/mid if it keeps him in the park.
Rotating mid/forward is his go IMHO for overall benefit

 

[gringo2011]

He hasn't played as a permanent small forward since mid 2018.

And his body didnt break down because he was playing midfield after 18-24 months of already playing predominantly in that position. It was just some bad injury luck after he managed to play the first 4 years of his career without any setbacks.

You don't play someone as with that much ball winning ability ability as a small forward. Especially when our midfield is so drab and calling out for someone for someone as creative and dynamic as Gresh.

If you can rotate him through what's the issue? We have ball winners now who are much less adaptable, if we have Jones 70% of the time and Gresh 30% you get all his explosiveness and still has energy to convert.

 

[George]

If you can rotate him through what's the issue? We have ball winners now who are much less adaptable, if we have Jones 70% of the time and Gresh 30% you get all his explosiveness and still has energy to convert.

He's a better version of Dunstan IMO. You need players like that though.

 

[gringo2011]

He's a better version of Dunstan IMO. You need players like that though.

I see him like De Goey where he's excellent at both roles. Dunny is a one position mid.

 

[George]

I see him like De Goey where he's excellent at both roles. Dunny is a one position mid.

Yeah that's a better comparison. I was just thinking about our club. They both play inside mid, are shocking field kicks, but get enough of the ball. Gresh is just more damaging in front of goal. I would say De Goey is ahead of Gresh but yes again both similar.

 

[Minga]

All this talk about Gresh is making me very excited for next season. If he can remain on the park I honestly think the sky’s the limit. He’s 23, is proven quality and hopefully will be playing in a capable side for the first time in his career.

I find it so easy to just be numb and forget about how many quality players we have out injured, but my god, they could be serious points of difference next year, IMO