Autopsy Round 15, 2022: Hawks mauled by Dogs

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Jazzfan

All Australian
Apr 12, 2021
962
2,328
AFL Club
Hawthorn
i just don’t get the love affair on here for Nash. Perhaps that clears it up a little .

It's more than 'on here' mate. The club gave him two more years and Sam himself said it goes really unnoticed what he does largely. A very unselfish player.

He's 23 and been playing as and AFL midfield for what 7 or 8 games if you consider he has been asked to ruck also? He's also coming from Ireland... the rate of improvement has been exceptional since moving into the middle.

Nash is the least of our worries. Plug and play for another 20 games as a mid and then let's see. He could perhaps be a bigger Liam Shiels with his willingness to play as that defensive mid and create (block etc) for others.
 

Slainte

Team Captain
Oct 10, 2008
537
1,174
Brisbane
AFL Club
Hawthorn
I have admitted that Nash has surprised me with his performances this year but I think that’s a couple of bridges too far to make him captain!

Still a long way from certain that he will make it as an AFL footballer TBH.
I hope you noticed that I have not made that assumption. I said that after two years he is either back to Ireland or a captaincy candidate. I think he is made of the right stuff to be a captain but I am not a proponent of the Mike Brearley theory of captaincy. I like my captains to be top 10 players
 

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Dominic03

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 28, 2020
6,430
6,302
AFL Club
Hawthorn
I like Nash

I also like Howe - sure he moves like the titanic but he’s tough, a good kick and does a good job when given shut down roles

I like Morrison

seems I’m a scapegoat fan
I like Morrison, i don't mind Nash and i don't rate Howe.
 

FB19

Debutant
Feb 2, 2022
118
177
AFL Club
Hawthorn
I couldn’t believe our centre bounce setup in the last quarter multiple times I saw libba out the back behind the ruckman unmanned. surely as a team that gets smashed out of centre at a minimum we should be with our opponents even to make the clearance a dump disposal. We have problems with players in the middle sure but feels like our system isn’t good either and with Mitchell and Harvey that’s really surprising to me
 

TheFourPillars

Brownlow Medallist
May 6, 2009
12,961
32,920
AFL Club
Hawthorn
The other thing i want to point out is that TOM is not the main man in the middle. For the majority of the game he and JOM played more outside in the middle and we had nash worpel and newc playing the main guys. Their position in the center square was more outside
 

CHUBBSS

Premiership Player
Apr 6, 2010
3,232
8,158
AFL Club
Hawthorn
For all his attacking prowess. Scrimshaw was a defensive liability especially in that second qtr. He needs much more balance in his game. His opponent was atleast 20m away from him in that forward line. It wasnt on turn over either. CJ had a stinker. Its a learning game for many of our young defenders
Reckon teams have done more work into playing him now, he needs to keep improving defensively and no reason he can’t after another pre season
 

TheFourPillars

Brownlow Medallist
May 6, 2009
12,961
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Reckon teams have done more work into playing him now, he needs to keep improving defensively and no reason he can’t after another pre season
Make no mistake has the makings of a great attacking defender. But he is a defender. He needs to defend first
 

theiaofseed

Premiership Player
Jun 17, 2019
4,622
10,484
AFL Club
Hawthorn
For all his attacking prowess. Scrimshaw was a defensive liability especially in that second qtr. He needs much more balance in his game. His opponent was atleast 20m away from him in that forward line. It wasnt on turn over either. CJ had a stinker. Its a learning game for many of our young defenders
Some horrible takes but wow, he was the only defender which look competent at all in the air for the whole note
 

hawkman

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 7, 2007
26,573
32,541
Melbourne
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Other Teams
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I couldn’t believe our centre bounce setup in the last quarter multiple times I saw libba out the back behind the ruckman unmanned. surely as a team that gets smashed out of centre at a minimum we should be with our opponents even to make the clearance a dump disposal. We have problems with players in the middle sure but feels like our system isn’t good either and with Mitchell and Harvey that’s really surprising to me
There was one of them where Nash was next to him and he just let him run through without a touch. Have noticed that a few times in Nash's game when he is playing on the opposition sweeper in the centre bounce.
 

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Lickmesocks

Club Legend
Oct 2, 2019
2,387
8,178
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Well it shows why you’d present stats that paint a far worse picture than his actual output as a midfielder. 😉


As I said, he is a good tackler but for me a really poor kick and has zero left side to his game. What can you expect when you grow up kicking a soccer ball around….

Can he make it? I am on the fence. Shows a little glimpse every now and then but I would be prepared to argue would not get a game in many sides.

We have seen he is no forward….
 

Lickmesocks

Club Legend
Oct 2, 2019
2,387
8,178
AFL Club
Hawthorn
I couldn’t believe our centre bounce setup in the last quarter multiple times I saw libba out the back behind the ruckman unmanned. surely as a team that gets smashed out of centre at a minimum we should be with our opponents even to make the clearance a dump disposal. We have problems with players in the middle sure but feels like our system isn’t good either and with Mitchell and Harvey that’s really surprising to me


Mate go back to the hub. We have been deadset ordinary in the middle since then.

We fail to understand or change in games when clubs get on top in the middle. The Dogs were taking the Pi55 against us for a large chunk where they would continually push us under the ball and knock it out the back and off they would go .

We have tried lots of different rucks in that time but we have not developed any sense of a system .

Does Damian Monkhorst have a job for life at the club? Surely you would change a few things around when things don’t work for 3-4 years.

Rob Harvey…… Who is coaching this part of the ground as we need to unlock something quick smart .
 

TheFourPillars

Brownlow Medallist
May 6, 2009
12,961
32,920
AFL Club
Hawthorn
I inspected the position of all our defenders. I paused and rewound the play several times to make sure

Edit: This was in response to my comments on our defenders including Scrim
 

hawkman

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 7, 2007
26,573
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Melbourne
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As I said, he is a good tackler but for me a really poor kick and has zero left side to his game. What can you expect when you grow up kicking a soccer ball around….

Can he make it? I am on the fence. Shows a little glimpse every now and then but I would be prepared to argue would not get a game in many sides.

We have seen he is no forward….
I would argue he is the best kick in our midfield

Admittedly that doesn't actually say much
 

theiaofseed

Premiership Player
Jun 17, 2019
4,622
10,484
AFL Club
Hawthorn
As I said, he is a good tackler but for me a really poor kick and has zero left side to his game. What can you expect when you grow up kicking a soccer ball around….

Can he make it? I am on the fence. Shows a little glimpse every now and then but I would be prepared to argue would not get a game in many sides.

We have seen he is no forward….
Which sides? Walk up start in North, Essendon, West Coast, GWS, Port, Suns, Collingwood, Adelaide, Suns
 

HedgeFund

Club Legend
Nov 5, 2012
2,730
3,770
Singapore
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Reckon teams have done more work into playing him now, he needs to keep improving defensively and no reason he can’t after another pre season
1. You don’t need a pre-season to learn how to play defensively. It’s pretty basic. Stop watching the footy all the time and worry about the guy you’re supposed to occasionally be defending.
2. Opposition coaches don’t need to “work him out”. They already have. For all his third man up intercept marking Scrim is the easiest player in our back 6 to play through because he has zero opponent awareness.
 

CHUBBSS

Premiership Player
Apr 6, 2010
3,232
8,158
AFL Club
Hawthorn
1. You don’t need a pre-season to learn how to play defensively. It’s pretty basic. Stop watching the footy all the time and worry about the guy you’re supposed to occasionally be defending.
2. Opposition coaches don’t need to “work him out”. They already have. For all his third man up intercept marking Scrim is the easiest player in our back 6 to play through because he has zero opponent awareness.
The exact reason he is playing is to continue developing atm as a defender. His 23 still and traded to us in 2019 after a piss poor development program at the suns and had the interrupted injury. His finally had some continuity and belonging to his footy in 2021 and 2022 has been derailed slightly with ongoing injuries.

Still 2 seasons away from hitting his 100 games and being in his prime.

1. His defensive game needs work, so another pre season and the season still play out and he gets that little bit better. The aim
Isn’t now, it’s 2-3-4 years time…

2. Teams do analysis every week, so every time he makes another defensive error the opposition teams would double down on this strategy, upto him and the club to fix that but it would be clearly know.

3. Get a better midfield and the defensive unit will work a lot better
 

HedgeFund

Club Legend
Nov 5, 2012
2,730
3,770
Singapore
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Hawthorn
The exact reason he is playing is to continue developing atm as a defender. His 23 still and traded to us in 2019 after a piss poor development program at the suns and had the interrupted injury. His finally had some continuity and belonging to his footy in 2021 and 2022 has been derailed slightly with ongoing injuries.

Still 2 seasons away from hitting his 100 games and being in his prime.

1. His defensive game needs work, so another pre season and the season still play out and he gets that little bit better. The aim
Isn’t now, it’s 2-3-4 years time…

2. Teams do analysis every week, so every time he makes another defensive error the opposition teams would double down on this strategy, upto him and the club to fix that but it would be clearly know.

3. Get a better midfield and the defensive unit will work a lot better
Jack left the Suns because he was homesick (which is fine). To then suggest he isn’t as well developed due to lack of continuity is a cop out. It’s not that hard to watch vision and learn where you’re getting exploited.

He has never played anywhere else on the ground than as a defender since he was 16. That’s 8 years.

I’m not expecting him to be a Lever/Vlastuin/Stewart type as such at 23 but with 6 years and 60 games under his belt (2/3rds of which were losses) you’d like to think he’d have some concept of needing to lock down occasionally during a game when the flood is coming.

Yes, we would all like to have less opposition inside 50s than currently, and that’s primarily on our midfield for leaking like a sieve, but how the back 6 deal with that…..is their problem. You can’t expect an improved midfield to all of a sudden deliver on a silver platter to Jack the improvement he needs can you?

It’s clear to me Jack has a long way to go as a defender who can be relied upon to keep an opponent quiet when the time comes. At least we can agree on that surely.
 

The hands of stone

Premiership Player
Sep 13, 2020
3,424
8,136
AFL Club
Hawthorn
I get the frustration but did people watch or remember watching the last aggressive rebuild through 05 , 06 and yes even games in 07?

We are heading for a low finish and a high pick , while playing some attractive if at times 'loose' football .
We have played numerous debutants.
All of them look to have the goods for decent AFL players .

We have beaten and also ran close a decent chunk of better sides , mixed with average performances .

We are going to see a fair bit more of Friday night mixed with games V Freo/Brisbane .

Yet if we win 'too many' games we will probably get complaints of not getting a high enough pick 🤦‍♂️
 

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