Preview Round 15, 2022: Sydney v St.Kilda - SCG, Saturday 25th June, 7:25PM AEST

[pebblesofsand]

It won't happen they will pay him no respect they will peel off & be the 3rd man up, the only way that will change is if he gets 2 or 3 by 1/2 time or we go through him & he becomes our main target.

Yep and the only way that will happen is if our mids suddenly start moving the ball quickly AND look for leading forwards rather than kicking long to a contest.

 

[sammm]

me as well

i always have a bad feeling.

 

[MordySaint]

Yeah I’m happy our captain is back Sharman is in and Marshall rucking by himself on the SCG

We may see Battle in the ruck again. He's durable enough to do it, especially against a ruckman coming back from injury.

Our best win of the year was when Battle took over ruck duties.

Three senior players dropped/rested... I haven't seen that for a long time.

The post game washup by Ratten must have been brutal, as it should have been.

 

[BrutThough]

I don't think you should look at one aspect in isolation either. How many tackles do you need to make to make up for not kicking goals?

Long - 0.5 goals and 2.8 tackles

Butler - 0.6 goals and 4.6 tackles

Higgins - 1.9 goals and 1.2 tackles

King - 2.7 goals and 0.6 tackles

Butler and Long may be providing pressure but they aren't kicking goals and once you take Higgins, we are relying on marks inside 50 to get our goals.

2022 St Kilda Goals Per Game Leaders

2022 St Kilda Goals Per Game Leaders.

www.footywire.com

Providing pressure is the basic part of a small forwards role and smalls need to be held to a harsher standard than the talls in that area. His best performances this year came with good tackle numbers as well so 1 tackle over 2 weeks just is a big drop in standards for him. Also, his goals last week were cheapies over the back so they are flattering his overall performance on the stat sheet.

 

[MordySaint]

I don't think you should look at one aspect in isolation either. How many tackles do you need to make to make up for not kicking goals?

Long - 0.5 goals and 2.8 tackles

Butler - 0.6 goals and 4.6 tackles

Higgins - 1.9 goals and 1.2 tackles

King - 2.7 goals and 0.6 tackles

Butler and Long may be providing pressure but they aren't kicking goals and once you take Higgins, we are relying on marks inside 50 to get our goals.

2022 St Kilda Goals Per Game Leaders

2022 St Kilda Goals Per Game Leaders.

www.footywire.com

The way that we play the game at the moment is to do a forward press. All of our players are in the forward half.

This means that if the ball escapes the forward 50 easily it then creates the turnover and more often than not an easy goal to the opposition on the rebound.

If non marking forwards aren't tackling or chasing, then it makes it extremely difficult for us to win a game.

 

[pebblesofsand]

Providing pressure is the basic part of a small forwards role and smalls need to be held to a harsher standard than the talls in that area. His best performances this year came with good tackle numbers as well so 1 tackle over 2 weeks just is a big drop in standards for him. Also, his goals last week were cheapies over the back so they are flattering his overall performance on the stat sheet.

I agree he's not a "pressure" forward he's a goal kicking small forward which he does very very well.

PS - His goals weren't cheapies "out the back - kicked one in the 3rd qtr when he won a contested ball in the goal square and got a free for in the back and the second one was a perfect small forwards crumbing goal of a Max King contest.

 

[plugger66]

Haven't we got a premiership power forward coaching our forwards? Maybe it's a case of top player, ordinary coach. Learning to lead and basic forward football skills are something you learn before you get to AFL level

I’m not sure about that. King just took contested mark after contested mark as a junior because he was better and bigger. You can tell the way he plays leading isn’t natural and there isn’t a huge amount of space these days. Roo only retired a few years ago but there is no where near the space even from 5 or 6 years ago. And there is no space at all if you stuff around with the ball up the ground.

 

[plugger66]

I don't think you should look at one aspect in isolation either. How many tackles do you need to make to make up for not kicking goals?

Long - 0.5 goals and 2.8 tackles

Butler - 0.6 goals and 4.6 tackles

Higgins - 1.9 goals and 1.2 tackles

King - 2.7 goals and 0.6 tackles

Butler and Long may be providing pressure but they aren't kicking goals and once you take Higgins, we are relying on marks inside 50 to get our goals.

2022 St Kilda Goals Per Game Leaders

2022 St Kilda Goals Per Game Leaders.

www.footywire.com

I think once we picked Sharman Higgins was in trouble.

 

[plugger66]

Yep and the only way that will happen is if our mids suddenly start moving the ball quickly AND look for leading forwards rather than kicking long to a contest.

You can and have to do both. Our problem is two fold. Forwards don’t lead enough and players up the ground stuff around with the ball and most are average kicks.

 

[plugger66]

We may see Battle in the ruck again. He's durable enough to do it, especially against a ruckman coming back from injury.

Our best win of the year was when Battle took over ruck duties.

Three senior players dropped/rested... I haven't seen that for a long time.

The post game washup by Ratten must have been brutal, as it should have been.

I know battle has rucked but it’s bloody tough as a back man and Sydney have 3 tall forwards. Sydney will probably use Reid as their second ruck and if that happens battle can ruck but if they just use a medium I think battle will be required back. Marshall should be able to do most of the game anyway. Haven’t we only got 2 senior players dropped or rested. Not sure hill can count. Would certainly have played. The 23rd man will be interesting. They probably want Higgins to get confidence back in the seconds but I’d play him as 23rd man and if we are struggling up forward I think someone will get injured.

 

[Sainttony]

What’s the go with Brad Hill - personal reasons?

 

[Saintos The ITK]

Sharmy is the key.

 

[MordySaint]

Sharmy is the key.

Agree, will provide another target forward and give King some space.

The McCartin brothers matchups will be extremely interesting.

Lets hope our forwards give them a bath.

 

[plugger66]

Sharmy is the key.

We are in trouble then.

 

[The Punter]

I think the Ryder rest is about giving him the last opportunity to not get him on a plane. He's playing in Perth if fit because he has family over there. I think Marshall and Ryder swap for the Carlton game because Silvagni is Carlton's chop-out ruckman and we can get by with Sharman on him too.

Higgins was poor last week but I don't understand dropping him and not Butler. Hill being out means Long probably moves into the defence rotation. But the Higgins decision is consistent with the rest of the year and selection choices.

Windhager keeps knocking down the door and was duly rewarded. Sydney aren't a great contest side any more so we've loaded up on contested football. They've decided to play to strengths coupled with the fact they got a dressing down from the coaching staff this week.

 

[pebblesofsand]

The way that we play the game at the moment is to do a forward press. All of our players are in the forward half.

This means that if the ball escapes the forward 50 easily it then creates the turnover and more often than not an easy goal to the opposition on the rebound.

If non marking forwards aren't tackling or chasing, then it makes it extremely difficult for us to win a game.

Now you're getting into a completely different problem - game plan and coaching.

We lost our two wingers who are both great two way runners who both provided defensive pressure but the coaches didn't tweak the plan at all.

I think once we picked Sharman Higgins was in trouble.

Don't think so - Sharman is replacing Marshall as a tall forward.

Someone had to go to fit in the extra mids - Windy, Byrnes, Clark etc

My issue is that Higgo is not and will never be a "pressure" forward. His job is to kick goals and he does his job which is a good thing in a game where you need to score.

Our problem last week was the lack of defensive pressure from the rest of the players whose job is to provide defensive pressure.

 

[sauce_head]

What’s the go with Brad Hill - personal reasons?

Think I read a family issue which meant he was away from the club and his preparation wasn’t right as a result.

Maybe illness of a family member or something.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

Think I read a family issue which meant he was away from the club and his preparation wasn’t right as a result.

Maybe illness of a family member or something.

Sinkers should be able to cover as halfback playmaker.

 

[Remboy]

I know battle has rucked but it’s bloody tough as a back man and Sydney have 3 tall forwards. Sydney will probably use Reid as their second ruck and if that happens battle can ruck but if they just use a medium I think battle will be required back. Marshall should be able to do most of the game anyway. Haven’t we only got 2 senior players dropped or rested. Not sure hill can count. Would certainly have played. The 23rd man will be interesting. They probably want Higgins to get confidence back in the seconds but I’d play him as 23rd man and if we are struggling up forward I think someone will get injured.

I think they prefer to have someone who is more versatile as the sub. Unless you lose a small forward Higgins won't be able to help much.
And if they want him to work on something or get some confidence it won't help if he's sitting on the bench.

 

[plugger66]

I think the Ryder rest is about giving him the last opportunity to not get him on a plane. He's playing in Perth if fit because he has family over there. I think Marshall and Ryder swap for the Carlton game because Silvagni is Carlton's chop-out ruckman and we can get by with Sharman on him too.

Higgins was poor last week but I don't understand dropping him and not Butler. Hill being out means Long probably moves into the defence rotation. But the Higgins decision is consistent with the rest of the year and selection choices.

Windhager keeps knocking down the door and was duly rewarded. Sydney aren't a great contest side any more so we've loaded up on contested football. They've decided to play to strengths coupled with the fact they got a dressing down from the coaching staff this week.

Tough on selection choices this year. I think they have been mostly correct. Can’t see Ryder ever playing as the lone ruckman anymore. Struggling big time lately.

 

[The Punter]

Tough on selection choices this year. I think they have been mostly correct. Can’t see Ryder ever playing as the lone ruckman anymore. Struggling big time lately.

Probably needs the week rest and to skip some time sitting on a plane. Higgins will be back.

I just have an issue with Long v Butler as the pressure forward right now. They have different approaches - Long gets close to you and tackles, Butler prefers the long chasedown. Seems like Long actually tackles more blokes and makes serious contact when he does. I haven't looked at the numbers so the reality may be different.

 

[plugger66]

Now you're getting into a completely different problem - game plan and coaching.

We lost our two wingers who are both great two way runners who both provided defensive pressure but the coaches didn't tweak the plan at all.



Don't think so - Sharman is replacing Marshall as a tall forward.

Someone had to go to fit in the extra mids - Windy, Byrnes, Clark etc

My issue is that Higgo is not and will never be a "pressure" forward. His job is to kick goals and he does his job which is a good thing in a game where you need to score.

Our problem last week was the lack of defensive pressure from the rest of the players whose job is to provide defensive pressure.

Higgins needs to provide defensive pressure if you have the likes of king membery etc. the ball just comes out to easily. And if Sharman is just replacing Marshall then he better come with something we haven’t seen from him and that’s pressure. The only tall forward above average for pressure according to stats on joeys show on Sunday is Marshall and that is why I think butler got the nod over Higgins because Sharman hasn’t shown that in games.

 

[bergholt]

I think they prefer to have someone who is more versatile as the sub. Unless you lose a small forward Higgins won't be able to help much.
And if they want him to work on something or get some confidence it won't help if he's sitting on the bench.

Wood as sub surely

 

[plugger66]

Probably needs the week rest and to skip some time sitting on a plane. Higgins will be back.

I just have an issue with Long v Butler as the pressure forward right now. They have different approaches - Long gets close to you and tackles, Butler prefers the long chasedown. Seems like Long actually tackles more blokes and makes serious contact when he does. I haven't looked at the numbers so the reality may be different.

Yes Higgins maybe back as early as tomorrow if he is 23rd man. I think you are generous on Ryder. I think it’s really dropped or team balance. His form lately hasn’t been good. I pointed it out 2 weeks ago and was even worse last week. We have gone from the second best ruck combo to bottom 4 in a matter of weeks.

 

[plugger66]

I think they prefer to have someone who is more versatile as the sub. Unless you lose a small forward Higgins won't be able to help much.
And if they want him to work on something or get some confidence it won't help if he's sitting on the bench.

The other way you can look at it if there are no injuries before half time and the forwards are struggling then there will be an injury early in the third.