Preview Round 15, 2022: Sydney v St.Kilda - SCG, Saturday 25th June, 7:25PM AEST

[Remboy]

Tough on selection choices this year. I think they have been mostly correct. Can’t see Ryder ever playing as the lone ruckman anymore. Struggling big time lately.

I thought at the start of the year they might go with Marshall as the number one ruck and have Ryder relieving him. Might have helped to get him through the year.

 

[Joffaboy]

I’m not sure about that. King just took contested mark after contested mark as a junior because he was better and bigger. You can tell the way he plays leading isn’t natural and there isn’t a huge amount of space these days. Roo only retired a few years ago but there is no where near the space even from 5 or 6 years ago. And there is no space at all if you stuff around with the ball up the ground.

In the 50 Roo made space because of his repeated leads, he would lead double back, short lead, double back or make a longer lead, he would blow up the backman on him.

Up the ground he would lead long and hard. He was always leading. Goddard said every time he looked up he would see Roo on the lead and thats one of the reasons it seemed the Saints always kicked it to him. He demanded it. He had a wingmans endurance, a great off the mark turn of speed with the height of a key forward.

King does not have the pace the endurance and the repeat leading ability of Roo. He is more a stay at home FF. Can't see him ever being able to do what Roo did regarding endurance and destroying his opponent. His strengths are his reach, and is rarely outmarked, he is also much more agile below his knees that Roo.

Two vastly different players. If Roo played today he would find just as much space as 5 years ago.

 

[Remboy]

The other way you can look at it if there are no injuries before half time and the forwards are struggling then there will be an injury early in the third.

But in that case you're bringing in a guy whose form has just seen him dropped. And if the forwards aren't struggling he won't be needed.

 

[Remboy]

Wood as sub surely

Either him or Lienert.

 

[plugger66]

In the 50 Roo made space because of his repeated leads, he would lead double back, short lead, double back or make a longer lead, he would blow up the backman on him.

Up the ground he would lead long and hard. He was always leading. Goddard said every time he looked up he would see Roo on the lead and thats one of the reasons it seemed the Saints always kicked it to him. He demanded it. He had a wingmans endurance, a great off the mark turn of speed with the height of a key forward.

King does not have the pace the endurance and the repeat leading ability of Roo. He is more a stay at home FF. Can't see him ever being able to do what Roo did regarding endurance and destroying his opponent. His strengths are his reach, and is rarely outmarked, he is also much more agile below his knees that Roo.

Two vastly different players. If Roo played today he would find just as much space as 5 years ago.

Agree they are completely different. Not sure about the space but we can both be right or wrong and it can’t be proven.

 

[The Punter]

In the 50 Roo made space because of his repeated leads, he would lead double back, short lead, double back or make a longer lead, he would blow up the backman on him.

Up the ground he would lead long and hard. He was always leading. Goddard said every time he looked up he would see Roo on the lead and thats one of the reasons it seemed the Saints always kicked it to him. He demanded it. He had a wingmans endurance, a great off the mark turn of speed with the height of a key forward.

King does not have the pace the endurance and the repeat leading ability of Roo. He is more a stay at home FF. Can't see him ever being able to do what Roo did regarding endurance and destroying his opponent. His strengths are his reach, and is rarely outmarked, he is also much more agile below his knees that Roo.

Two vastly different players. If Roo played today he would find just as much space as 5 years ago.

In that case you need to find a way to keep King deep. And that is what frustrates me as well as many other supporters - King isn't where we would like him to be when someone like Membrey marks the ball on the wing and turns upfield.

 

[plugger66]

But in that case you're bringing in a guy whose form has just seen him dropped. And if the forwards aren't struggling he won't be needed.

True but I’ve seen our forward lately and at least one will struggle. Yes he was dropped because of form but 50 minutes of footy may be the best thing for him. Like you though I think they may want to give him a full game in the reserves for confidence. Those head knocks seemed to have really effected his confidence. 6 games ago he was an AA chance

 

[plugger66]

In that case you need to find a way to keep King deep. And that is what frustrates me as well as many other supporters - King isn't where we would like him to be when someone like Membrey marks the ball on the wing and turns upfield.

I’m with you about king being deep but many others whinge he is to deep and they want him up the ground. That’s the last place we need him. Last week he got way to many possessions on the wing. Not even sure he had a possession inside 50 after half time.

 

[Yawkey way]

Maybe so...dudded yes!.....But no one else got our colours...I say again just purely on an aesthetic perspective....Red White and Black on a verdant green field.....theres just nothing quite like it as a visual feast! I guess Es sodom and the Filth playing against each other....need i say more!

Just a question now, to anyone...if they were to re introduce zones as has been muted in some circles........should they give us what was our old zoning would that work for or against the SAINTS at this time in history...has our zone evolved..would it be productive?

Just wondering at the same time thinking how flippin lucky we are to have the magnificence of what no other club has ....us and the R.W.B.

We were well and truly screwed over with the old zones, what a surprise.

 

[MordySaint]

Now you're getting into a completely different problem - game plan and coaching.

We lost our two wingers who are both great two way runners who both provided defensive pressure but the coaches didn't tweak the plan at all.

You have a point here... Game plan and coaching.

But if the players can't execute the coaches plan well, who goes first???

The chicken or the egg conundrum....

 

[BrutThough]

Wood as sub surely

Maybe Lienert again? Played better last week than Wood.

 

[plugger66]

Maybe so...dudded yes!.....But no one else got our colours...I say again just purely on an aesthetic perspective....Red White and Black on a verdant green field.....theres just nothing quite like it as a visual feast! I guess Es sodom and the Filth playing against each other....need i say more!

Just a question now, to anyone...if they were to re introduce zones as has been muted in some circles........should they give us what was our old zoning would that work for or against the SAINTS at this time in history...has our zone evolved..would it be productive?

Just wondering at the same time thinking how flippin lucky we are to have the magnificence of what no other club has ....us and the R.W.B.

If the afl gave out zones now only 2 sides could win the flag and that’s us and Geelong Imagine having sandy dragons zones. Private schools everywhere.

 

[AirWinmar]

I'd say the odds are in favour of Sharman and Battle becoming our ruck duo by mid way through the third quarter.

Could very well be - or myb they go a late change with Campbell. He has actually been very good in the 2nds

 

[gringo2011]

Look at their tackle/pressure numbers rather than the goal column.

Fox Footy highlighted that we are one of the worst teams in that regard which was allowing teams to just walk the ball out. Ratts has said 1 tackle in 2 weeks isn't good enough from a small forward and you need to do the hard work, not get just out the back.

This is what I don’t get about Ratts, he built this forward line. It is probably the least defensive forward set up in the AFL and probably in the last 15 years. Butler chases but he is as effective as a chihuahua in a dog fight and his original job was as a high scoring out the back small forward.

Snags is an in between player, he’s a mid size high scoring forward. Defensive pressure isn’t his thing, he’s slow and immobile. He’s not there for that.
Long is a more brutal version of Butts but doesn’t score either. You can’t carry 2 that don’t score.

Membrey plays high half forward and doesn’t pressure when he is there to any real extent.

King just sits there demanding the ball. No leads, just sits under the ball and uses reach. Marshall is a great field player but very ordinary forward. He doesn’t have a lot of craft. Paddy is better but usually cooked when resting there.

Sharman is a surgeon, he’s super efficient but again offers minimal pressure on the turn over or loose ball.

He’s built this as he wants it and it relies on high scoring to win games. If you take the high scoring players out another has to step up. We’ll need a good game from Sharman.

 

[Yawkey way]

We had nothing to do with the kids development. It would be considered massively unfair if any other club tried to backdoor a kid into their academy at the last minute to draft them so we cant whinge because we weren't able to do it. Sydney had every right to take him in the mid-season draft. It's an open pool and they are allowed to take the player they rate the highest at their pick.

What you mean like every second academy kid, you coming out of the closet as a swans fan boi brut.

 

[Yawkey way]

Interesting changes after an absolute shocker, I don’t fancy our chances.

 

[BrutThough]

This is what I don’t get about Ratts, he built this forward line. It is probably the least defensive forward set up in the AFL and probably in the last 15 years. Butler chases but he is as effective as a chihuahua in a dog fight and his original job was as a high scoring out the back small forward.

Snags is an in between player, he’s a mid size high scoring forward. Defensive pressure isn’t his thing, he’s slow and immobile. He’s not there for that.
Long is a more brutal version of Butts but doesn’t score either. You can’t carry 2 that don’t score.

Membrey plays high half forward and doesn’t pressure when he is there to any real extent.

King just sits there demanding the ball. No leads, just sits under the ball and uses reach. Marshall is a great field player but very ordinary forward. He doesn’t have a lot of craft. Paddy is better but usually cooked when resting there.

Sharman is a surgeon, he’s super efficient but again offers minimal pressure on the turn over or loose ball.

He’s built this as he wants it and it relies on high scoring to win games. If you take the high scoring players out another has to step up. We’ll need a good game from Sharman.

Except we were ranking well with our forward pressure numbers at the start of the season so it is a cop out to say it has been set up to not perform defensively. We have dropped off in that area which sits on the back of the players not performing rather then them being incapable of it.

 

[MordySaint]

This is what I don’t get about Ratts, he built this forward line. It is probably the least defensive forward set up in the AFL and probably in the last 15 years. Butler chases but he is as effective as a chihuahua in a dog fight and his original job was as a high scoring out the back small forward.

Snags is an in between player, he’s a mid size high scoring forward. Defensive pressure isn’t his thing, he’s slow and immobile. He’s not there for that.
Long is a more brutal version of Butts but doesn’t score either. You can’t carry 2 that don’t score.

Membrey plays high half forward and doesn’t pressure when he is there to any real extent.

King just sits there demanding the ball. No leads, just sits under the ball and uses reach. Marshall is a great field player but very ordinary forward. He doesn’t have a lot of craft. Paddy is better but usually cooked when resting there.

Sharman is a surgeon, he’s super efficient but again offers minimal pressure on the turn over or loose ball.

He’s built this as he wants it and it relies on high scoring to win games. If you take the high scoring players out another has to step up. We’ll need a good game from Sharman.

You make very good points.

Also the Membrey down back move has fixed the blowouts but weakened our potency.

I do think Sharman will add another layer to our forward line, we were a better cohesive unit with him in the team this year.

 

[Joffaboy]

Agree they are completely different. Not sure about the space but we can both be right or wrong and it can’t be proven.

I am right then wrong about football all in one sentence.

 

[gringo2011]

I think once we picked Sharman Higgins was in trouble.

Sharman, Higgins and Membrey in one side is too many who can’t defend the ball coming out.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Who would you have brought in to fix that?

DMac is injured and Wood's VFL performance didnt warrant a call up.

I was going to reply that maybe Wood is struggling with the ankle he appeared to injure in the Lions game....

I have totally blocked out last week - forgot we had a game and that he played at Sandy.

 

[St Significant]

I think the Ryder rest is about giving him the last opportunity to not get him on a plane. He's playing in Perth if fit because he has family over there. I think Marshall and Ryder swap for the Carlton game because Silvagni is Carlton's chop-out ruckman and we can get by with Sharman on him too.

Higgins was poor last week but I don't understand dropping him and not Butler. Hill being out means Long probably moves into the defence rotation. But the Higgins decision is consistent with the rest of the year and selection choices.

Windhager keeps knocking down the door and was duly rewarded. Sydney aren't a great contest side any more so we've loaded up on contested football. They've decided to play to strengths coupled with the fact they got a dressing down from the coaching staff this week.

Totally agree with the strange dropping of Higgins, he was pretty much in All-Australian form in the first half of the season before his concussion. Unless he is still playing injured then he should not have been dropped. Provides more goals than Butler does. This is Ratts saying that he values F50 pressure more than goals. Not sure that will get you a win

 

[Diehard Saint]

I am right then wrong about football all in one sentence.

Ah it all makes sense now....you are bipolar, just like our team

 

[The Punter]

Totally agree with the strange dropping of Higgins, he was pretty much in All-Australian form in the first half of the season before his concussion. Unless he is still playing injured then he should not have been dropped. Provides more goals than Butler does. This is Ratts saying that he values F50 pressure more than goals. Not sure that will get you a win

There's clearly a range of opinions on forward make-up on here. I think Long is our best option as a pressure forward. I hope Butler tears it up tomorrow night.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Totally agree with the strange dropping of Higgins, he was pretty much in All-Australian form in the first half of the season before his concussion. Unless he is still playing injured then he should not have been dropped. Provides more goals than Butler does. This is Ratts saying that he values F50 pressure more than goals. Not sure that will get you a win

F50 pressure is important. Preventing the ball from just rebounding right out for a coast to coast goal by the opposition has got to be helpful. Being able to keep it there for more stoppages adds pressure to the defence and gives more chance of a goal.