Autopsy Round 15, 2022: Sydney v St.Kilda

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gringo2011

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Or maybe instead of putting our entire soft cap into one messiah, we want to have a complete football department with strong people in every area.

Or don’t cheap out and aim high. Ratts has had 3 seasons to have us where Richo had us with much more spent on good players from other clubs and better drafting along with much more footy department spend.

I think we’ve already signed him so we have to hope pressure pushes him to do a Hardwick or Goodwin. I don’t think he’ll make it to the end of next years contract myself and can see us taking on anyone while still paying Ratts out.
 

lewdogs

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Or don’t cheap out and aim high. Ratts has had 3 seasons to have us where Richo had us with much more spent on good players from other clubs and better drafting along with much more footy department spend.

I think we’ve already signed him so we have to hope pressure pushes him to do a Hardwick or Goodwin. I don’t think he’ll make it to the end of next years contract myself and can see us taking on anyone while still paying Ratts out.
Lol you said we could win the flag a month or so ago, jeez you know how to spiral.
 

BrutThough

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Or don’t cheap out and aim high. Ratts has had 3 seasons to have us where Richo had us with much more spent on good players from other clubs and better drafting along with much more footy department spend.

I think we’ve already signed him so we have to hope pressure pushes him to do a Hardwick or Goodwin. I don’t think he’ll make it to the end of next years contract myself and can see us taking on anyone while still paying Ratts out.
How is spending a significant portion of the soft on one person at the expense of the other areas of the footy program aiming high?

Just because a club doesnt go all in on one savour, doesn't mean they aren't aiming high for their entire football department and staff. Takes a lot more than 1 man to create a successful environment. And you can't be burning everything down because of a few bad losses. There is still a lot of the season to still play out.
 

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NarklesHelmet

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How is spending a significant portion of the soft on one person at the expense of the other areas of the footy program aiming high?

Just because a club doesnt go all in on one savour, doesn't mean they aren't aiming high for their entire football department and staff. Takes a lot more than 1 man to create a successful environment. And you can't be burning everything down because of a few bad losses. There is still a lot of the season to still play out.
If he’s the best of all time you do it.

Go back and watch the Dogs documentary about their premiership year (Dogs are a good example as they also have limited historic success and resources like us).

Rohan Smith and many others when asked what was the key element for their success? Without hesitation said “Bevo”.

Bring Clarko in and you could get rid of a couple of Lade types that haven’t come from success. Soft cap issues solved.
 

BrutThough

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If he’s the best of all time you do it.

Go back and watch the Dogs documentary about their premiership year (Dogs are a good example as they also have limited historic success and resources like us).

Rohan Smith and many others when asked what was the key element for their success? Without hesitation said “Bevo”.

Bring Clarko in and you could get rid of a couple of Lade types that haven’t come from success. Soft cap issues solved.
Clarko didn't win all those premierships alone.
 

gringo2011

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Lol you said we could win the flag a month or so ago, jeez you know how to spiral.

We could have played well and been in contention in a season where it’s wide open. Instead we’ve gone from three losses for the year to three in a row playing some of the worst footy I’ve seen us play in 10 years. This is surprisingly uneventful for most on here. There is a little stumble and then there is this. Absolute collapse. The fact that you aren’t concerned says you love the drama of being terrible.
 

Teflon

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Mate, what you saw in 09-10 was because of him.

Ross Lyin couldn't recruit a snowflake in a snow storm.
Rubbish
Thomas couldn’t introduce a system to take us forward it was all “belief clouds” and “training services” corporate KPI drivel
Lyon at least built a system into a side that barring some ordinary execution GF day (esp 09) should’ve yielded a flag
There’s a reason Lyon is still sought out today …GT “leader of men”…not so much.
BTW agree with what Thomas has to say on current debacle
 

Teflon

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you were proud of a legacy of no flags? OK. whatever floats your boat. I just saw failure. Now people want to bring it back.

Messiah complex, a weak minded club, a weak minded supporter base if they think Thomas will lead us to the promised land.

He talks about fundamentals? What about the fundamental of getting the team conditioned. Injuries because of his incompetence cost us a flag in 04 or 05.

Took a real coach a year to get the conditioning right, and then in 08-10 we looked like a football team. GT was a failure and a divisive character, no doubt a passionate Saints man, but he had his go and he blew it.
You’re right
I spoke to an assistant at the club at the time and his exact words to me were “GT *ed your club” I was shocked ….but this guy was sacked by Lyon not Thomas (and still highly rated Lyon so go figure).
 

Teflon

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That’s a myth. He pioneered getting Monash in to help monitor loads and doing sport science. We were just unlucky. Ross Lyon sacked all the players who were struggling with injury. His attitude was if you couldn’t get on the park you were off the list.


The players and staff look lost. Culture looks terrible and leadership across the board looks insipid. It looks very unlikely that we play finals now and the excuses are already starting about how we knew we were s**t…..again.

If they don’t turn this around soon the club will be sailing head on into a shitstorm and they are going to have to find some strong off field leadership to stave off a spill.
Not true
Lyon brought in Dave Misson from Swans I think it was and we improved soft tissue injury management markedly
Thomas wanked on about “training services” like it was someone else’s Dept he had no control over
Corporate wanna be flog but in the club right now he’s right
 

Ads734

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I'm not sure where to put this so I think I'll just write.

Every day that passes it becomes less and less enjoyable. It's like a burden. I'm going this Friday because I already bought tickets and my son wants to go. It's commitments to others that keep me going.

I'm just at the point where it doesn't matter what the identified problem is. We get Clarko and he does what every other St Kilda coach bar one does. Another crop of new St Kilda players losing their skills at the club. Regimes pass through but the failure remains.

If Nick and Lenny couldn't win one, maybe it's just not possible. It's who we are. I've seen every team that existed when I was born win one except the one I support. It'll be Freo and Carlton next, then GWS and GC. Everyone gets a taste but us. It's who we are.

Over the last few years I've felt what it is like to support a team in another sport where you get to the point where you know they'll pull it out even if they are behind. That's not only a great feeling, it's a powerful feeling. The opposite is watching Essendon knowing they'll beat us because they always do. At the moment I'd settle for Essendon just telling our ruckman what they injected into him in 2012.

GT cares but he's grossly inconsistent. He talks about commitment then spruiks going and getting De Goey. At least he's consistent about the importance of strategy - the reason he never beat Port Adelaide when they were any good. Win contest, move ball, repeat step 1 was all he had. It worked to an extent. Still ended up the same as Alves and Lyon and Watters and Richardson and Sheldon and Jewell and Patterson and Gellie and Killegrew and all the others apart from one.

So I have no urge to write about selection and strategy or drafting or trading at the moment, because I struggle to see what difference any of it would make. The red, white and black would seep into their veins and suddenly they'd be no good at football any more. It's who we are.
Completely agree untill they start performing and offer us a small bit of hope only to dissapoint again :(
 

Ads734

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Part of the reason the Roos thing worked at Melbourne was he was appointed with an exit date. I would think Roos would be pretty much on his Pat Malone about accepting such conditions.
He did change their culture I’d be doing what we can to get him in some capacity if we don’t get clarko
 

BrutThough

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He did change their culture I’d be doing what we can to get him in some capacity if we don’t get clarko
Unfortunately he is already being paid by North to sit in Hawaii and occasionally consult.
 

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Longmembrey

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Listen to what Lethlean said about the soft cap.

It's not about whether or not we can afford to pay Clarko it's about what we would lose by having less available in the cap to pay assistants etc.

Additional membership/sponsorship does not; can not; increase what is allowed to be paid under either the soft cap or the players salary cap.

I understand this, but are you saying Clarko is unemployable? He is desperate to coach and his only motivation is to win more flags (kind of rules us out lol), so why can't he coach us instead of a different club?

He will coach next year, and whoever gets him will get the goat of coaches.

Furthermore, the "soft" cap is just that isn't it? You can go over and pay a tax?

Maybe we just pay for the best available coach and get rid of a couple of the tofu eating, yoga nostril breathing, mindfulness, life-affirming, shrinks... and get on with with becoming a hard-nosed football team that actually wins matches?
 

Saint believer

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I don’t know what the future will hold.

So I’m not going to make outlandish predictions about finals and I’ve already made it clear not making finals from where we sat, when I argued that an extension for Ratten shouldn’t be given until the back end of the year. Would be a monumental failure.

However. Culture and leadership is the best it’s been since the Grandfinal seasons. Player development was a big tick 3 short weeks ago.

The boys have been slack across these 3 weeks. Not surprising that we have spiralled without someone like Dmac in that time who is the epitome of standards or that someone like Billings comes in and it goes to s**t, as he is someone that can’t lead those standards.

DMAc was someone three years ago I expected to head out the door, but since his re-emergence in 2020 he has been one of the key players who play the current game style well. It is interesting to see how ewe have fallen away as a team once he has been missing from action (following an injury). The running wings seem to be coming as important for ball flow and scoring as winning it in the middle. '

Last week we had no run from Hill, DMAC, even Wood and Sinclair well held. Not surprising we could not move the ball. We had none of the Carlton come from behind the player overlap that had us moving forward quickly and breaking the lines that worked well for us early in the year and works very well for the Blues that we see play this week.

I hope we can get some run and overlap and be competitive but it is a big ask atm.
 

gringo2011

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DMAc was someone three years ago I expected to head out the door, but since his re-emergence in 2020 he has been one of the key players who play the current game style well. It is interesting to see how ewe have fallen away as a team once he has been missing from action (following an injury). The running wings seem to be coming as important for ball flow and scoring as winning it in the middle. '

Last week we had no run from Hill, DMAC, even Wood and Sinclair well held. Not surprising we could not move the ball. We had none of the Carlton come from behind the player overlap that had us moving forward quickly and breaking the lines that worked well for us early in the year and works very well for the Blues that we see play this week.

I hope we can get some run and overlap and be competitive but it is a big ask atm.

I remember that West Coast match where DMac was the spark for the whole sides energy. We seem to lack a motivation at times like we need someone to provide a spark. I think that’s why Collingwood and Hawks brand is so enjoyable to watch. The players move the ball quick and attack constantly. You can see it’s exciting to play.

Dogs have a similar infectious style that brings it’s own motivation.
 

bergholt

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I remember that West Coast match where DMac was the spark for the whole sides energy. We seem to lack a motivation at times like we need someone to provide a spark. I think that’s why Collingwood and Hawks brand is so enjoyable to watch. The players move the ball quick and attack constantly. You can see it’s exciting to play.

Dogs have a similar infectious style that brings it’s own motivation.

I partly agree with what GT said the other night, that Rath or whoever has us thinking too much about tactics. "We have to have these sorts of plans so that our game style will stack up in finals." It minimises the importance of the fundamentals which gives you nothing to fall back on when the tactics aren't working.
 

Saintbloke

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Apr 26, 2015
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I partly agree with what GT said the other night, that Rath or whoever has us thinking too much about tactics. "We have to have these sorts of plans so that our game style will stack up in finals." It minimises the importance of the fundamentals which gives you nothing to fall back on when the tactics aren't working.
You could see it in the body language against the Swans, how our players were hesitant about what to do next, instead of just following basic football instincts..a bit like "paralysis by analysis". Clearly the instructions by Ratts against Carlton should be to go out and take risks regardless of mistakes, run hard and don't stop moving the ball- the opposite of what is happening now.
 

SaintsSeptember

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You’re right
I spoke to an assistant at the club at the time and his exact words to me were “GT ducked your club” I was shocked ….but this guy was sacked by Lyon not Thomas (and still highly rated Lyon so go figure).

Its possible to be sacked, and view it objectively that someone else could do your job better than you do. ( you don't have to like it ).
 

SaintsSeptember

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DMAc was someone three years ago I expected to head out the door, but since his re-emergence in 2020 he has been one of the key players who play the current game style well. It is interesting to see how ewe have fallen away as a team once he has been missing from action (following an injury). The running wings seem to be coming as important for ball flow and scoring as winning it in the middle. '

Last week we had no run from Hill, DMAC, even Wood and Sinclair well held. Not surprising we could not move the ball. We had none of the Carlton come from behind the player overlap that had us moving forward quickly and breaking the lines that worked well for us early in the year and works very well for the Blues that we see play this week.

I hope we can get some run and overlap and be competitive but it is a big ask atm.

I'd love to see DMac give it a try as a run with player in the guts.
To me he'd be perfect.
If he could neutralize a key opponent each week it would be a massive leg up for the side, and he may even develop his midfield skills ala jack Steele
 

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