Autopsy Round 15: Brisbane 42-34 Collingwood

[loki04]

Lack of pace? - which teams have exposed our lack of pace

Do you think we are a quick team?

I'd say we are improving in the area but couldn't hurt to add some more especially in the midfield.

 

[Darkyprotector]

They lost a key defender,but their midfield and forward line was still intact.How do you explain them not being able to get the ball on their forward line in the last quarter?Were they fatigued after a 13 day break?

No they were probay fatigued from the BEST quarter of forward pressure this year
A 14 man forward press
And we played right into their hands
All.goals resulted from pressure, we didn't absorb it
They did
It's really simple
Well coached I say

 

[manicpie]

Lack of pace? - which teams have exposed our lack of pace

ffs, not even going to bother

 

[anshell]

No they were probay fatigued from the BEST quarter of forward pressure this year
A 14 man forward press
And we played right into their hands
All.goals resulted from pressure, we didn't absorb it
They did
It's really simple
Well coached I say

It still doesn’t explain why they could only kick one solitary goal for three quarters of the game on their own ground against us.Do you really think that was a good effort from them?If we played a weakened Lions team in Melbourne and did that,people here would be screaming about how weak we are and moaning that we should have pumped them.

 

[domus]

Hang on
Who's saying he and noble didn't bust their rings
So did Maynard on one leg
So did magden
So did Moore
Callum brown

I mentioned he played and has been down on his
Drive
Burst running
Disposal
Then it comes out what his disposal efficiency was
67%
Heaps of switch possession receivednin that 30 possession s as well
I'd point out on this board for years

Adams
Mayne
Phillips
treleor
Amonst a host of others fhave been heavily criticised for their efficiency with the pill

So let's not be hypocritical

Why am I being hypocritical? Where did I state that others were not giving their all? Callum Brown's always tries but please don't compare his influence on the game to Crisps. Crisp is far more direct and gains far more metres than Mayne, Treloar, Brown and Madgen.

 

[Big Bryza]

They kicked four goals from direct turnovers, three of which were between 20-40m of their goal.

In about a 15minute period!

Never before would a side have had 2 goalless quarters and still won the game.

Sums up our season.

 

[magpie_marty]

8 point loss and we had a depleted side and played shocking football.
It's not all gloom and doom but perhaps a fair result of our year thus far.

 

[No SPIN]

ffs, not even going to bother

Maybe just tell us when you don’t want to debate any of the points in your posts - it would save us all time and effort.

 

[No SPIN]

No they were probay fatigued from the BEST quarter of forward pressure this year
A 14 man forward press
And we played right into their hands
All.goals resulted from pressure, we didn't absorb it
They did
It's really simple
Well coached I say

You are nothing if not persistent- your point that we can’t cope with pressure continues to ignore that we brought the pressure all day apart from their surge in the second.
And Lack of rotations doesn’t explain 1.3 after half time.

 

[manicpie]

Maybe just tell us when you don’t want to debate any of the points in your posts - it would save us all time and effort.

Maybe you should do your research before just defending your opinions just for the sake of it. Now go and watch the replay of the Fremantle, Melbourne, West Coast, Essendon and definately Brisbane, if you can't see it then no one can help you

 

[manicpie]

You are nothing if not persistent- your point that we can’t cope with pressure continues to ignore that we brought the pressure all day apart from their surge in the second.
And Lack of rotations doesn’t explain 1.3 after half time.

I think you are also ignoring the fact that we can't score goals, but then again pressure is more important

 

[stormskye]

I can't really agree on the draw, in part yes the condensed fixture has hampered but every team plays every team. From that side it is equal, and we haven't been the only team with a condensed fixture. Regardless, Collingwood and injuries to key players is a fact of life, we just have to work with it, not rely on the planets aligning to win the whole box and dice. We almost did that in 2018 with a similar nightmare injury situation.

So what's different now? Why have the other clubs overtaken us and we have regressed, it can't purely be JUST injuries and dodgy fixture. As bad as both of those have been I have no doubt in my mind that a true contender would be in better form with the same issues.

I think we are a couple of players short of a flag threat. No argument here from me. And our forward line has wel documented issues. That said bad teams done win the stats like we do, we just can’t convert...

however our fixture has been nothing short of a farce. It’s scandal level how bad we’ve been screwed both with travel and time off. Compare us to rich, the herald sun article is an eye opener. Seriously go and read the draw we’ve been given. It’s shameful.

it’s not just injuries, it’s who to. We’ve been without our best defender, best forward pretty much ALL year, both potential AA players, and 2 top mids for half the season, plus pendles for a month. No team missing equivalent players For the length of time we have would be top 4. That’s just a fact.

If we get them back, plug a couple of holes, and get gifted a draw similar to Richmond level next year, I’m confident we will be back in top 4

 

[No SPIN]

I think you are also ignoring the fact that we can't score goals, but then again pressure is more important

the debate was about being out pressured - happy for you to stick to the debate, and offer a contribution.
It was not a debate about scoring.

 

[Carringbush2010]

I think we are a couple of players short of a flag threat. No argument here from me. And our forward line has wel documented issues. That said bad teams done win the stats like we do, we just can’t convert...

however our fixture has been nothing short of a farce. It’s scandal level how bad we’ve been screwed both with travel and time off. Compare us to rich, the herald sun article is an eye opener.
it’s not just injuries, it’s who to. We’ve been without our best defender, best forward pretty much ALL year, both potential AA players, and 2 top mids for half the season, plus pendles for a month. No team missing equivalent players For the length of time we have would be top 4. That’s just a fact.

If we get them back, plug a couple of holes, and get gifted a draw similar to Richmond level next year, I’m confident we will be back in top 4

Look I don't disagree we've got the wrong end of the stick this year re injuries and draw.

Let me put it this way.

Let's just pretend for a minute that all the teams are at full strength, and playing at full potential. As you've admitted here we're a couple short of a flag threat. We aren't really contending, close but a no from me.

So IF we can develop Kelly in the off season, or somehow land a true key forward and have better depth and maybe a bit more speed in the middle we are all of a sudden well balanced and then you'd be brave to bet against us for the whole box and dice let alone top 4.

I don't see the point of making top 4 purely for the exercise of making top 4, the club is clearly in flag mode, I'd rather that attitude from them rather than just making up the numbers.

 

[stormskye]

Look I don't disagree we've got the wrong end of the stick this year re injuries and draw.

Let me put it this way.

Let's just pretend for a minute that all the teams are at full strength, and playing at full potential. As you've admitted here we're a couple short of a flag threat. We aren't really contending, close but a no from me.

So IF we can develop Kelly in the off season, or somehow land a true key forward and have better depth and maybe a bit more speed in the middle we are all of a sudden well balanced and then you'd be brave to bet against us for the whole box and dice let alone top 4.

I don't see the point of making top 4 purely for the exercise of making top 4, the club is clearly in flag mode, I'd rather that attitude from them rather than just making up the numbers.

I agree we aren’t the best team. We aren’t far off though. I’ve said before I view this year like 2009, if we can have a good trade/draft I honesty believe with luck on injuries (for once) we can contend

 

[Carringbush2010]

I agree we aren’t the best team. We aren’t far off though. I’ve said before I view this year like 2009, if we can have a good trade/draft I honesty believe with luck on injuries (for once) we can contend

I think you're right here, without getting too analytical we've relied on system more than personnel to 'contend' in the last two years.

Now that we can't use that system (not exactly anyway), the panel are looking to tweak that system and nothing has worked and our depth has been exposed.

As good as our list is (it's very very good) we don't have the balance or depth of the true contending teams, even if we get our game style right. Lacking a true key forward is glaring and our mids though it bats deep looks somewhat one paced and dimensional.

Coaching and development are another glaring area we need to improve, I hope and pray Budda comes back, and a different more ruthless attitude from panel (and squad!). Let's be what opposition used to hate - to play Collingwood. Fierce competitors with an unsociable attitude.

It needs not much to be a real force, a true true contender, so close yet universes away.

 

[manicpie]

the debate was about being out pressured - happy for you to stick to the debate, and offer a contribution.
It was not a debate about scoring.

Blah, Blah, same old s**t, no point debating about pressure if you can't score, and we were out pressured for the majority of the game that's why we lost, the difference was that they were able to score more than us, pretty sure that's all you have to do to win

 

[No SPIN]

Blah, Blah, same old sh*t, no point debating about pressure if you can't score, and we were out pressured for the majority of the game that's why we lost, the difference was that they were able to score more than us, pretty sure that's all you have to do to win

Not sure why you need the childish attitude.

“We were out pressured for most of the game”?
We kept them goaless for 2 QTRs and kept them to 1.3 after half time - and rotations weren’t the reason for how poor they were after half time.
Pretty clear therefore that your statement is questionable.

 

[doppleganger]

This as well, but we so far and yet so close at the same time it's frustrating. Makes we wanna burn the house down, IF all of our star outs come back in and immediately find form then yes you're right.

Where as other teams like the contenders for example don't need that, look at the injuries of wc and rich, much the same as us (certainly wc) but they're contenders and we aren't. Our gaping lack of depth is exposed.

Oh yes, ‘tis very frustrating.

Good teams find a way to win those games, and unfortunately we aren’t playing well atm.

IMO a close loss to a premiership fav on their own dung heap when we are battling really isn’t cause for toys being thrown out of the cot....the Dees, Freo and Essendon games were those games.

And I don’t think our depth is the problem - Daicos, Noble, Magden, IQ - they were all pretty good.

The problem was that some of our supposed best players - Mihocek, Stephenson, WHE, Thomas (our forwards that were such a strength previously were poor) and Grundy isn’t impacting.

 

[Anzacday]

No SPIN and manicpie how about you just agree to disagree and move on.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Oh yes, ‘tis very frustrating.

Good teams find a way to win those games, and unfortunately we aren’t playing well atm.

IMO a close loss to a premiership fav on their own dung heap when we are battling really isn’t cause for toys being thrown out of the cot....the Dees, Freo and Essendon games were those games.

And I don’t think our depth is the problem - Daicos, Noble, Magden, IQ - they were all pretty good.

The problem was that some of our supposed best players - Mihocek, Stephenson, WHE, Thomas (our forwards that were such a strength previously were poor) and Grundy isn’t impacting.

Can't disagree with any of that, not throwing the toys out of the cot just pointing out the obvious. No we're not playing well and we need to be playing at potential to be any chance.

 

[No SPIN]

Do you think we are a quick team?

I'd say we are improving in the area but couldn't hurt to add some more especially in the midfield.

sorry Loki - I missed responding to the above.
I don’t think we have a glaring deficiency and maybe apart from the Ess game I haven’t felt it was a major or decisive factor in any game we lost.

 

[loki04]

sorry Loki - I missed responding to the above.
I don’t think we have a glaring deficiency and maybe apart from the Ess game I haven’t felt it was a major or decisive factor in any game we lost.

Fair enough.

Imo we do lack some pace through the guts, which would improve the team and add some dynamics to our oft one paced midfield brigade.

A Dane Swan type if you will. Imo Treloar since the double hammies has not been capable of getting good clean seperation out of stoppages. Doesnt burst anymore or look to have the same pace he did at giants. He is an accumulator now.

 

[jackcass]

I think you are also ignoring the fact that we can't score goals, but then again pressure is more important

I think your mistaking stodgy ball movement for a lack of pace. I think we stack up pretty well against most teams. Our biggest pace deficiency at the moment is in the midfield but Elliott somewhat offsets that. Get quicker players like Treloar, Sier and JDG through there and it certainly isn't as bad.