Review Round 15 - Essendon vs GWS Giants, Thursday 27th June, Marvel Stadium, 7.20pm

gee whiz giant

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. If we are forced to play hard, close and contested footy we fall over. Generally that is the kind of brand we see in finals footy...
Possibly a bit too negative there.
We were forced to play hard, close and contested footy only last game against the Roos; different outcome.
 

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gee whiz giant

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t but we again massively under performed away from home.
How can you massively underperform and lose by a kick.
That gives no credit to the oppositions skill and gameplan.
The difference last night was the umpies putrid performance.

(I can't watch the replay so going on memory, but will list one moment)
The Sam Taylor holding the ball free, third quarter, in the goal square, is acceptable if Giants were rewarded last quarter when their no4 hung on to it, dropped it, etc.
Taylor had the ball a nano-second before it was whistled. The crowd got to the umpire.
 

Danny88

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Possibly a bit too negative there.
We were forced to play hard, close and contested footy only last game against the Roos; different outcome.
And how dd we beat them? we beat them because they let us get the ball outside and use uncontested posessiona nd run to hurt them. If you look at that game we constantly switched and double switched to get the ball outside and away from the roos.

We only ran away with it when we got the game on our terms imo
 

dlanod

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It is interesting how emotional you clearly are even the next day after a loss. I imagine the cat was well and truly kicked last night.
That was a funny post to quote and claim it's emotional, but anyway... It was nice to be pi**ed off at something other than the Giants' s**t effort after a loss though.

In response to your post I suppose I will point out a few things (sigh). We lost the tackle count 59-57. In the last the bombers won 5/6 clearances. They scored 2/3 of their goals from stoppages in the last. This doesn't paint a picture of a run and gun game- Yes we got them on the overlap a few times and yes you are correct our I50 entries in the last were poor (17 I50's in the 4th Qtr). I would say these poor entries are a reflection of high pressure entries rather than elite players choosing to bomb it in. All of this however, is a reflection that it became a contested arm wrestle and we didnt get the game on our terms.
That's a lot more interesting than any of your previous posts which stated something as just the way it is without an attempt at justification. Of course there were a few more quarters than the last, but our last was definitely the worst of the four.

We have been found out a little imo. If we are forced to play hard, close and contested footy we fall over. Generally that is the kind of brand we see in finals footy...
I'm actually in agreement with this. We have definite vulnerabilities and we seem to make no effort to remedy that over the last couple of years. Part of why a Giants loss usually leaves me pi**ed off at us as a team than anything else.

So yes.. we beat teams who let us play the way we want (ie flat track bullies) but as soon as that is taken from us... as soon as we have a hostile crowd... we seem to be establishing a habit of falling over
Also in general agree. See my comments five minutes into the Adelaide game. You can tell whether we're going to be "up" for a game very early on based off the opposition pressure and whether we're able to do our own thing.

Against poor teams we'll rack up cricket scores, against average teams we'll win easily, against average teams with pressure we'll struggle and often lose, against good teams we'll struggle and often lose, and against good teams with pressure we'll get blown out.

As started before, IMO last night (and only last night) was an exception - without the umpires involved we would've won rather easily (say, three to four goals). Essendon was an average team last night. We got our momentum stripped time and again but it wasn't by the opposition.
 

General Giant

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How can you massively underperform and lose by a kick.
That gives no credit to the oppositions skill and gameplan.
The difference last night was the umpies putrid performance.

(I can't watch the replay so going on memory, but will list one moment)
The Sam Taylor holding the ball free, third quarter, in the goal square, is acceptable if Giants were rewarded last quarter when their no4 hung on to it, dropped it, etc.
Taylor had the ball a nano-second before it was whistled. The crowd got to the umpire.
Because we are a much much better side than the Bombers and at our best would of destroyed them.

We should of still won last night but the umps had the fix in from the middle of half time.
 

Mr Magic

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Because we are a much much better side than the Bombers and at our best would of destroyed them.

We should of still won last night but the umps had the fix in from the middle of half time.
Two things beat the Giants last night and Essendon was not one of them!!!

The umpires beat the Giants.

The Giants beat the Giants. I was watching the game last night and too many times the Giants did not respect the opposition and played footy like they where playing witches hats!!

The Kelly handball which was intercepted by Saad and resulted in a 12 point play was indicative of most of the match. A lot of the Giants do not respect the game enough. They do not defend well enough in terms of giving too much space to Essendon players when the ball gets in there hands and they do not play the percentages enough.

The Giants should have won by 50 points last night at minimum against a depleted Bombers line up. Too many times going forward the Giants went wide so even if they got the ball they where pressured to kick a goal just because of the angle. The difference when Whifield pays or not is telling in terms of creativity on forward transition. The Giants rely on a lot of talent and do not think strategically enough on how to win ball in hand because they over rely on pure talent!!
For example in marking contests sometimes too many go for the ball and not enough stay down for the crumb or defend the opposition. The lack of organisation was telling and really the Giants a lot of the time play like millionaires obvious to the fact they could get beat and leads them to over possess and try things beyond their capability like Shaw's kick out of defence that caused the first goal against them!! Since the do not play percentage football it comes across as arrogant football and if the keep playing like that they will never win a premiership!!

I actually think they are poorly coached. How do the Giants go about playing in a set-up to beat the opposition apart from using De Boer as a tagger?? Its seems the Giants play with no method and set-up thats makes sense to combat and exploit the Giants strengths and opposition weaknesses!! The Giants play seems rather slapstick and handball orientated at times while incapable of employing any defensive zone at any relevant stage!! How is it Essendon tend to kick goals from the corridor while the Giants are always kicking mostly from an angle??? I think a lot of the GWS players play with the heads chopped off as they do not seem to know how to play to exploit their own strengths let alone develop any team synergy. What are the roles of specific Giants players within games and do they know why they stronger playing certain roles a certain way?? This seems absent from my observation thus the slapstick play. I think the Giants lack direction and cohesion. If someone asked me how do the Giants play and which players play a certain way I am not sure I could answer that apart from some forwards tending to lead to the flanks. Have the Giants actually sat down and discussed how they think they should play as a group individually and as a team with feedback and a plan to minimise the risk of opposition kicking goals against them while maximising the opportunity for the Giants as a team to kick more goals?? Why is it the Giants horde the ball towards the forward half and open themselves up to have goals kicked against them in slingshot play?? How is it the opposition forwards always seem to have more room in the forward line than the Giants forwards when the ball gets moved into there forward line? Giants win possession and lose, win clearances and lose, get more possessions and lose. Systematically and methodically something cannot be right and all options not considered/utilised!! I am not sure each player has been sounded out and playing the best role for the team either. Does each player know what their role is and why this is their role and how they are supposed to play it to be as effective as possible and how they are supposed to bring their teammates into the game to be as effective and potent as possible offensively and defensively?? At times the players seem to treat the ball like a hot potato, handball and dish it off willy nilly. The kick across the ground by Finlayson in the middle only to be intercepted and have a goal kicked against the Giants is another case in point!! Has anyone even thought of putting Davis at centre half forward, every now and then during a game just as a change up, to create a pack contest using a guy with size and strength then to create a focal point and straighten the forward transition up and develop more method with meaning in the game?? Do the Giants go through the motions and lack initiative at times?? Where is the focus?? GWS are not a Ferrari, they seem to be a headless chook!! GWS should not try and be a Ferrari, they need to become a football team working together to achieve what their hearts desire!!

When I see the Giants play I see the inactive Giants, inactive in the mind especially. Entitled Giants would be unfair because I am sure the players and group is trying. There just is no movement and urgency to will success on the field. I see a lack of vision, connection among the players with ball in hand. Who is demanding the ball??? Where is the alertness, where is the awareness?? I see sleepwalkers falling into subconcious habits like a quicker version of a group groundhog day! I think it can change but the players are going to have to want it to change and forget about support, they have to want success for themselves individually and jointly and do whatever it takes fairly and on the field to achieve that desired success!!

Heres a suggestion. I did not notice Tomlinson much in play. Cameron and Himmeberg did there thing. I thought Himma was good actually. At times though the forward half seemed blocked by flooding resulting in just kicks down the line. Cameron tends to lead in space a bit. How about positioning Tomlinson at centre half forward and get him to roam up providing a lead up option more central separate to whatever Cameron and Himma are doing? That way structurally the play can be a little bit more centred. Tomlinson has a tank so he could roam further up the field closer to defense. That way if there is a bit more structure the GWS players can play around that a little and figure out from that type of base, what deviations and methods of play work from there in terms of forward transition, goal kicking efficiency from possessions etc.. GWS would not even have to stick to a traditional structure as long they more corridor than flank and if Tomlinson can roam between CHF to CHB as an unconventional marking option that might suit the GWS structurally
 
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Brave New World

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The reader may note from my 'statistics' on the left-hand side I have been around from about the very beginning but do not post a lot. But during that time I have read most written here about GWS.

I want to thank all the posters for their contributions, even when disagreeing with their own. Your POV's are thought provoking and I enjoy the debate. I am better informed for your efforts.
 

Big Unit 30

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I backed Essendon during the match because it felt like an actual fix that game.
As bad as I remember umpiring ever being
 

Andre the Giant

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Went to the game and had a great vantage point from the oppos box.

The officiating was very poor against both sides, it’s a hard game to officiate but they do miss a lot, the crowd definitely influences 50/50 calls.

Thought Himmelberg was our most productive forward and our mids and defenders had a crack.

It is very noticeable how much cleaner and classier we are with the ball, Essendon just hung in and wouldn’t go away. We have definitely improved and are a better team but just lack a few ingredients. Would love to see a Bobby Hill in the forward line but I suspect our coach is too bland to try that.

We have a nice group of players but just need a few X factor guys that can break a game up.
 

Teeso

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Went to the game and had a great vantage point from the oppos box.

The officiating was very poor against both sides, it’s a hard game to officiate but they do miss a lot, the crowd definitely influences 50/50 calls.

Thought Himmelberg was our most productive forward and our mids and defenders had a crack.

It is very noticeable how much cleaner and classier we are with the ball, Essendon just hung in and wouldn’t go away. We have definitely improved and are a better team but just lack a few ingredients. Would love to see a Bobby Hill in the forward line but I suspect our coach is too bland to try that.

We have a nice group of players but just need a few X factor guys that can break a game up.
Imagine if we rolled the dice with Stack even as a rookie. Unsure about the knock on his character but boy can play.
 

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dlanod

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Imagine if we rolled the dice with Stack even as a rookie. Unsure about the knock on his character but boy can play.
Wonder if it's going to be Yarran again... Hope Stack can keep his eye on the goal.
 

Billy Bob65

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Commiserations on the loss.

Here are the midfield frequency stats from the game. If you haven't seen a previous post, this is an overall summary of how often your players were lining up as one of the 5 mids at bounces.

Overall Summary - 26 Bounces

Taranto 23
Hately 20 (16w, 4i)
Perryman 19 wing
Coniglio 17
Kelly 17 (4w)
Hopper 16
Tomlinson 13 wing
Greene 4
Deledio 1

Rucks:

Mumford 21
Tomlinson 5

Centre Clearances (per Champion Data/AFL.com.au)

Hopper 5
Coniglio 3
Mumford 1
Langdon 1
Williams 1

1st Half - 12

Taranto 10
Hately 10 (8w, 2i)
Perryman 9 wing
Coniglio 8
Hopper 8
Kelly 7 (5i, 2w)
Tomlinson 5 wing
Greene 2
Deledio 1

Mumford 9
Tomlinson 3

Final Term - 10

Taranto 9
Kelly 9 (2w)
Perryman 7 wing
Tomlinson 7 wing
Coniglio 6
Hopper 6
Hately 6 (4w, 2i)

Mumford 9
Tomlinson 1

Notes:
- Most starts for Coniglio in an analysed game since Rd 2
 

NT.Thunder

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It is interesting how emotional you clearly are even the next day after a loss. I imagine the cat was well and truly kicked last night.

In response to your post I suppose I will point out a few things (sigh). We lost the tackle count 59-57. In the last the bombers won 5/6 clearances. They scored 2/3 of their goals from stoppages in the last. This doesn't paint a picture of a run and gun game- Yes we got them on the overlap a few times and yes you are correct our I50 entries in the last were poor (17 I50's in the 4th Qtr). I would say these poor entries are a reflection of high pressure entries rather than elite players choosing to bomb it in. All of this however, is a reflection that it became a contested arm wrestle and we didnt get the game on our terms.

We have been found out a little imo. If we are forced to play hard, close and contested footy we fall over. Generally that is the kind of brand we see in finals footy...

So yes.. we beat teams who let us play the way we want (ie flat track bullies) but as soon as that is taken from us... as soon as we have a hostile crowd... we seem to be establishing a habit of falling over
Having Ward out is a big loss both from a hardness at the footy and leadership perspective. When he hits a pack hard it really does rub off onto some of our other midfielders on the commitment needed when things get tough.

Not sure where that comes from when he's out.
 

dlanod

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Having Ward out is a big loss both from a hardness at the footy and leadership perspective. When he hits a pack hard it really does rub off onto some of our other midfielders on the commitment needed when things get tough.

Not sure where that comes from when he's out.
Hopper's growing into it but it's still a work in progress.
 

Danny88

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Having Ward out is a big loss both from a hardness at the footy and leadership perspective. When he hits a pack hard it really does rub off onto some of our other midfielders on the commitment needed when things get tough.

Not sure where that comes from when he's out.
I would say Hopper. He has 20 contested possessions last game. Good player
 
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