Preview Round 16, 2018: Port Adelaide v St.Kilda - Adelaide Oval, Saturday 7th July, 4:05PM ACST

Who Wins?

  • Power

    Votes: 75 75.8%
  • Saints

    Votes: 24 24.2%

  • Total voters
    99
Status
Not open for further replies.
Don't hate the kid at all, just think his one senior game this year showed that at the elite level the game has passed him by. I don't think his selection helps us win this game at all and winning is the main thing. If people think he's more likely to get us a win, fine... I just don't agree.

I struggle to think of a more limited player on an AFL list at the moment generally and one less suited to a game plan revolving around quick, precise, unpredictable and manic ball use that we are using to great effect since half time in the Freo game and that has revitalized our season and the coaching career of Richo.

Quick, unpredictable and manic sound like him though.
 
Sep 14, 2008
9,000
31,408
L2 A30
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Chicago Bulls
Longer has been absolutely deplorable and I don't know if I have ever seen such a dominant performance from a ruckman as Gawn's last week. He was the sole reason Melbourne stayed in touch with us for the entire game (Billy had 8 disposals, 2 marks and 26 hitouts against Gawn's 25, 11 and 39). Hickey on the other hand was dropped after an 11 disposal, 8 tackle, 30 hitout game (against an opponent who had 14 disposals, 29 hitouts and 3 goals).

And I have no idea how you think Wright's game could come close to what Battle offers in any way. This is a 184cm scrappy flanker who has kicked 9 goals from 34 games at age 24 compared to a talented, skilled 193cm tall forward who has kicked 7 goals from 4 games at age 19. Marshall is playing excellent footy at VFL level and averages 0.4 less tackles per game over his career despite the fact that he is a key forward/ruckman as opposed to Wright who is a small defender/pressure forward. There is absolutely no sense in this selection and it frankly screams incompetence. Any club on a pathway to success would not be wasting time with known (and frankly terrible) quantities like Wright in a dead season while far more talented players are in desperate need of experience.

Max smashed Billy around the ground but they broke even in the middle. That would likely have been reversed if Hickey had been in the side.

Personally I can live with Max taking marks as it didn't hurt us as much as him giving the mids first use out of the centre would have.
 
Sep 17, 2010
5,538
21,283
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Manchester City, AIK, Raiders
Coffield plays as a small back though and is in a pool with White, Geary, Webster even Roberton etc. His form was falling away when we dropped him and his VFL form has been average. He might be tired or sore or just managed. The high pick kids are usually given every opportunity to show what they can do early as the club tries to sell hope. I guess you have to earn a spot and have a spot open at the right time. That happened to Rice last season.
Form hasn't been great for sure... for me we have to work out why, I personally think he needs to be backed in like Clark was.... you have to be careful with the talented kids. We've been spot on with Clark and boy it's paying off now, even though he had games similar to Coff in the seniors.

The thing is we are down to bare bones, why not make Newnes a defensive forward for a week and give Coff a go with the licence to express himself from a wing, loosen the shackles on him mentally and physically. Worst that can happen, we get beaten and he performs badly. But with a talent like him, a breakout game could happen and we have to be taking risks as a footy club because that is how we are turning this ship around at the moment, with bold movement and or young blokes backing themselves in.
 
Sep 17, 2010
5,538
21,283
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Manchester City, AIK, Raiders
Quick, unpredictable and manic sound like him though.
I'm more talking ball movement. What I mean by quick isn't just leg speed (which Wright has) it is speed of mind (which he doesn't have). The best you can hope for from Wright is that he disrupts the opposition movement with his aggression and snag a goal, which he did to some effect in recent years when included. But I saw in his solitary game this year that his brain wasn't able to get his body into the right positions to even do that. It takes a lot of footy smarts to be a defensive forward with the ball movement we are seeing today and unfortunately we only really have Longy who is good at this now. Wright may find something tomorrow but the best we get from him is a wrecking ball. Is that enough with how we play now? I think we are beyond that to be honest.

Speed of mind and bravery/automatic movement/taking the first option is the most important ingredient to playing the way we want to play. We lost it late last year and over the pre-season and now have it back. We can't lose it again.
 
Sep 17, 2010
5,538
21,283
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Manchester City, AIK, Raiders
Newnes has been playing forward for weeks now already.
Yeah I was more thinking for the Battle role, Battle has a crazy tank like Newnes... the main thing is getting creative and not bringing a battering ram with limited skills into the team when it goes against what are doing that is working so well lately. For me, run and spread has bought us back from the brink, not bash and crash.
 

MrFoster

Club Legend
Oct 10, 2015
1,569
3,852
AFL Club
St Kilda
Max smashed Billy around the ground but they broke even in the middle. That would likely have been reversed if Hickey had been in the side.

Personally I can live with Max taking marks as it didn't hurt us as much as him giving the mids first use out of the centre would have.
Max Gawn is probably best ruckman in the league, getting beat by him is no disgrace. Max ha averaged 114 dream team score this year, 6 games over 130 points, that means at least 5 other ruckman also got belted.

At long as our mids break even or win the midfield, who cares? We’ve crap in the middle all year, losing clearances and contested possession to opponents, guess who was rucking then? Yes, the best ruck in the league Tom Hickey.
 
Jan 7, 2011
35,108
71,501
Heaven. I mean Victoria.
AFL Club
St Kilda
Gawn's game on the weekend was incredible and he had the better of Billy in the ruck contests, which makes me wonder what he would have done to Hickey in them, had he been playing instead, given how much less competitive he generally is in the ruck than Billy (hence him averaging just 24 hitouts per game this year, when he's generally been going OK, compared to Billy's 38 per game last year, when he was up and running).

It might have been like that game in R1 last year where Gawn just demolished Tom there and had something like 22 hitouts-to-advantage to Tom's 4, and we got absolutely smashed in the clearances as a result.

No guarantee that Tom would have stopped Gawn from taking his 7 contested marks, either, as Billy was right in Gawn's pocket for some of those, yet he still was good (and tall) enough to take them.

It was just one of the great individual games you'd see. I remember earlier in the year Gawn saying he'd struggled against Billy in the past (eg late last year he gave away 5 frees to Billy, and lost the hitouts-to-advantage 3-10) and wanted to rectify that, so I think it was clearly one he really set himself for.

Hickey might just about be in career-best form at the moment though, so Billy will need a good one this weekend if he wants to keep his spot.
 
Last edited:
Jun 17, 2018
3,180
12,776
AFL Club
St Kilda
Hickey was never coming in this week for Longer. Longer is our preferred ruckman, hence why we started the year with him severely underdone instead of a fit Hickey.

Battle can run all day and is physically imposing - which are two attributes Marshall has none of. Wright, despite being smaller will still allow us to be mobile in the front half and will still apply pressure to opposition beckman. Marshall is nothing like Battle as a footballer, except they are both tall. Wright has warranted his selection from strong VFL form.

Honestly, neither Marshall or Wright are talented footballers and neither have a long future in the AFL. But Wright is better suited for the conditions and will cause less disruption to our current structure/game plan.

Marshall may surprise us yet. Early days.
 
Dec 4, 2000
51,663
125,107
The Bay
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
NO Saints LUFC
Max Gawn is probably best ruckman in the league, getting beat by him is no disgrace. Max ha averaged 114 dream team score this year, 6 games over 130 points, that means at least 5 other ruckman also got belted.

At long as our mids break even or win the midfield, who cares? We’ve crap in the middle all year, losing clearances and contested possession to opponents, guess who was rucking then? Yes, the best ruck in the league Tom Hickey.
You could see the role the coaches wanted Billy to play against Gawn. He rucked every contest Gawn was in all game.
It was obvious what the plan was. And it worked. Our mids best there much vauted mids until the last 5 minutes.

Billy did a job Hickey would not have been able to.

Was instrumental in our win against GC. Gave first service to a staggering amount.

Better bet than Hickey

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

Saintbloke

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 26, 2015
5,714
10,186
AFL Club
St Kilda
You could see the role the coaches wanted Billy to play against Gawn. He rucked every contest Gawn was in all game.
It was obvious what the plan was. And it worked. Our mids best there much vauted mids until the last 5 minutes.

Billy did a job Hickey would not have been able to.

Was instrumental in our win against GC. Gave first service to a staggering amount.

Better bet than Hickey

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app
Billy was sh*t, no amount of gloss will cover that up
 

g_TRAIN

Near a spoon
Jun 15, 2006
3,165
8,111
Sydney
AFL Club
St Kilda
Max smashed Billy around the ground but they broke even in the middle. That would likely have been reversed if Hickey had been in the side.

Personally I can live with Max taking marks as it didn't hurt us as much as him giving the mids first use out of the centre would have.

Seriously, how many studies have we seen now showing almost zero correlation between hit outs and clearances?

Break even in the ruck is all we need, the kicks and marks are more important so long as you can compete. Look at Nankervis or Mcavoy much better than Billy but both poor hit out ruck man
 
Jan 7, 2011
35,108
71,501
Heaven. I mean Victoria.
AFL Club
St Kilda
Seriously, how many studies have we seen now showing almost zero correlation between hit outs and clearances?

Break even in the ruck is all we need, the kicks and marks are more important so long as you can compete. Look at Nankervis or Mcavoy much better than Billy but both poor hit out ruck man
Don't give a fat rat's clacker what any studies that aren't about us at present show, the evidence of the last couple of years shows incredibly clearly that our ability to win clearances takes a massive hit when we're not competitive in the ruck contests.

It's the only reason Billy is in there. He ain't in there for his good looks or scoreboard-pointing ability!
 

g_TRAIN

Near a spoon
Jun 15, 2006
3,165
8,111
Sydney
AFL Club
St Kilda
Don't give a fat rat's clacker what any studies that aren't about us at present show, the evidence of the last couple of years shows incredibly clearly that our ability to win clearances takes a massive hit when we're not competitive in the ruck contests.

It's the only reason Billy is in there. He ain't in there for his good looks or scoreboard-pointing ability!

Yeah, I really don't think there is any correlation at all.. But can see why some might see it that way
 
Aug 25, 2004
13,999
39,744
Sydney
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Melbourne Storm, San Antonio Spurs
Max smashed Billy around the ground but they broke even in the middle. That would likely have been reversed if Hickey had been in the side.

Personally I can live with Max taking marks as it didn't hurt us as much as him giving the mids first use out of the centre would have.
I can’t live with Max taking marks. What makes our players kick it near him anyway, I mean it’s not like you kick it to Billy to take a mark FFS. Shouldn’t have been kicking it anywhere near him around the ground & especially not do the hot spot kick when he was dropping back there.

Can pretty much say the same for Ryder this week. Don’t kick it near him... ever... all game. Just don’t do it
 
May 10, 2013
7,580
25,666
Queensland
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Melbourne Storm, Baghdadian Babes
I can’t live with Max taking marks. What makes our players kick it near him anyway, I mean it’s not like you kick it to Billy to take a mark FFS. Shouldn’t have been kicking it anywhere near him around the ground & especially not do the hot spot kick when he was dropping back there.

Can pretty much say the same for Ryder this week. Don’t kick it near him... ever... all game. Just don’t do it

But....But....But that’s the St Kilda game plan, kick it high to the forward line, will take too many weeks to try and convert them now. :eek:
 
Don't give a fat rat's clacker what any studies that aren't about us at present show, the evidence of the last couple of years shows incredibly clearly that our ability to win clearances takes a massive hit when we're not competitive in the ruck contests.

It's the only reason Billy is in there. He ain't in there for his good looks or scoreboard-pointing ability!

Hickey is one of our best clearance players , so how does that work?
 
Some of you blokes are so pessimistic. It's understandable if we were getting thrashed every week. Yet, we won two games in a row and look like a football team for once. We been cursed by injuries, and form of our players this year hasn't been that great. Yes, it's your opinion but maybe consider all the likely reasons why certain things have been happening.

Wright is in because he has been in good form in the seconds. Gilbert is in because we lack leadership and experience, and has the capability of playing variety of roles. It's hard luck that guys like Carlisle & Battle are going to miss through injury but it happens to everyone.

Get over it. Cut the alcohol and have some common sense. Get behind the boys instead of sookin about selections. The coaches can only choose from what they have. It's really annoying to see that same people are always targeting particular players, your supposed to get around and support them ffs. This is why guys like Billings might leave our club because of pure lack of respect to our own players.

Apologies for the rant. It's just really frustrating. It's been a tough year, but least enjoy the time that we've been good for once.
 
Some of you blokes are so pessimistic. It's understandable if we were getting thrashed every week. Yet, we won two games in a row and look like a football team for once. We been cursed by injuries, and form of our players this year hasn't been that great. Yes, it's your opinion but maybe consider all the likely reasons why certain things have been happening.

Wright is in because he has been in good form in the seconds. Gilbert is in because we lack leadership and experience, and has the capability of playing variety of roles. It's hard luck that guys like Carlisle & Battle are going to miss through injury but it happens to everyone.

Get over it. Cut the alcohol and have some common sense. Get behind the boys instead of sookin about selections. The coaches can only choose from what they have. It's really annoying to see that same people are always targeting particular players, your supposed to get around and support them ffs. This is why guys like Billings might leave our club because of pure lack of respect to our own players.

Apologies for the rant. It's just really frustrating. It's been a tough year, but least enjoy the time that we've been good for once.


Damn straight, I snapped out of a miserable Big Mart like state after a couple of wins. I'm skipping along the streets patting small animals and smiling at everyone again. If I can do it any one can.
 
I don't think we currently have the midfield to support an average tap ruckman lime Hickey.

If we had a Sloane or clearance beast then different story.

Hickey gets more clearances per game on average than anyone except Steven and Ross. ( he gets around the same as Ross ).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back