Autopsy Round 16, 2019: back on the winners list over Collingwood

cryptor

Premium Gold
May 11, 2008
16,956
34,638
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Can i just say can we cease the tanking talk. Hawthorn r never taking the field with the intention to lose not with clarkson at the helm. I dont care what anyone says but i strongly believe winning is more important. Draft picks no where near as important.

We have built a culture around never giving up and playing hard every week. Most weeks we do this. The players were gutted losing last week. I am so happy they got reward for their efforts this week

Ppl are so fricken enamoured with the draft. Geezus Gws should be on a 5 pete by now and they havent made a grand final.

I like you frustrated by our ball movement especially going forward but you can never fault our endevour to be 3 goals down having kicked 4 goals for the game and still believe we could win.

Guts and determination something other sides dont have and we sure has hell dont want to lose that intangible. Its the difference between a premiership and not
I don't think anyone seriously believes we were ever tanking. There's been no real indications of that coming through either in the way players are playing or the coaching/selection moves made.

There's been some experimentation done with strategy and selection but that isn't at all unusual given where we are at as a team. Teams that are trying to lose don't perform like we have in the past 2 games. We're just inconsistent, not tanking.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

badgrill

Premiership Player
Jul 20, 2008
3,128
4,748
Melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
I don't think anyone seriously believes we were ever tanking. There's been no real indications of that coming through either in the way players are playing or the coaching/selection moves made.

There's been some experimentation done with strategy and selection but that isn't at all unusual given where we are at as a team. Teams that are trying to lose don't perform like we have in the past 2 games. We're just inconsistent, not tanking.
Nobody from the club, but more than a few on here - thus the tanking "talk"
 

Mississippi

All Australian
Jan 29, 2010
624
1,945
Above the floodline
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Interesting interview with Burgoyne on SEN on Saturday. Burgers was asked whether there was anything different tactically during the game and he said that they were told to move the ball faster into the forward line, take the game on and play on directly and forward.

And it worked. The emphasis on lateral movement and crabbing the ball forward over the past weeks has been irritating me and a lot of others because it’s meant the opposition has crowded us out when we do go forward. That’s why we doubled our score in the last quarter.

A few other comments.

The St Kilda game in April to me proved that we can’t continue to play 2 specialist ruckman. Against St Kilda, McEvoy and Ceglar looked lumbering against a mobile Marshall and it’s been surprising that we continued to play 2 ruckman over the weeks since then. On Friday Mitch Lewis showed how more versatile he is in place of the forward ruckman - hopefully we’ll stick with him.
Tough on Cegs because he’s a bloody good footballer as he proved yesterday for Box Hill.

Cudos to Stratts. On Friday he looked really focussed and played the perfect percentage captain’s game.

I reckon Friday’s game will prove to be a really significant game in the context of this season. It showed the talent of some of our emerging players - particularly Hanrahan and Lewis and Glass and the not so young TOB. Their performance on Friday, and the confidence they should get out of that game, should ensure they stay in the side for the rest of the year. Particularly delighted to see Ollie do well as I’d virtually written him off because, whilst he showed obvious talent, he simply hasn’t been getting enough of the ball. Friday night has hopefully given him the confidence to cement his place.

I just wish Teia Miles could join them - don’t know what he’s done not to deserve a promotion, given his form for Box Hill.
 
Last edited:

Brishawk

Brownlow Medallist
Jan 17, 2008
16,155
23,155
Brisvegas
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Serious question... is this current version of Jags the best we’re going to get? The guy we have, here and now, is this it? I’m not keen to hear “wait till Titch comes back”. Just a genuine question to Hawk supporters.
He will need to be managed for the rest of his career. Was getting 30+ a game and kicking goals earlier this season. Got an injury and hasn’t looked as good since. With greater midfield depth he can be a hff and burst midfielder which should lower the crash and bash he has to face. He will be more like Burgoyne in that he won’t be the first strong midfielder but will be a match winner for us.
 
Oct 4, 2013
91
120
Melbourne
AFL Club
Essendon
Hi all! Just wanted so say I think Impey has had an amazing season and I think he is vastly underrated by the competition as a whole. Would be interested to hear what hawks fans think of a comparison between him and Adam Saad? Personally feel they are very similar players with Jarman being more conventional per se but they are both having great seasons so just interested in your thoughts. Thanks! ☺
 

Carl Spackler

All Australian
Jul 29, 2018
872
1,799
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Can i just say can we cease the tanking talk. Hawthorn r never taking the field with the intention to lose not with clarkson at the helm. I dont care what anyone says but i strongly believe winning is more important. Draft picks no where near as important.

We have built a culture around never giving up and playing hard every week. Most weeks we do this. The players were gutted losing last week. I am so happy they got reward for their efforts this week

Ppl are so fricken enamoured with the draft. Geezus Gws should be on a 5 pete by now and they havent made a grand final.

I like you frustrated by our ball movement especially going forward but you can never fault our endevour to be 3 goals down having kicked 4 goals for the game and still believe we could win.

Guts and determination something other sides dont have and we sure has hell dont want to lose that intangible. Its the difference between a premiership and not
Thank you.
 

TylerDurden

Premium Gold
Mar 5, 2007
6,026
13,106
Lou's Tavern
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Hi all! Just wanted so say I think Impey has had an amazing season and I think he is vastly underrated by the competition as a whole. Would be interested to hear what hawks fans think of a comparison between him and Adam Saad? Personally feel they are very similar players with Jarman being more conventional per se but they are both having great seasons so just interested in your thoughts. Thanks! ☺
Would be great to see both of them off a half back flank in the AA team this year.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

tommyk72

Premium Gold
Apr 10, 2007
2,919
3,295
Melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
He will need to be managed for the rest of his career. Was getting 30+ a game and kicking goals earlier this season. Got an injury and hasn’t looked as good since. With greater midfield depth he can be a hff and burst midfielder which should lower the crash and bash he has to face. He will be more like Burgoyne in that he won’t be the first strong midfielder but will be a match winner for us.
And you know what? If he steps into the Burgoyne role once Burgoyne is gone and the machine is up and running (and does it as well as Burgoyne), I'd be bloody happy with the price we paid.
 

tige19

Brownlow Medallist
Feb 13, 2003
18,971
18,442
Mar-a-lago
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
NUFC, Orlando, Packers, Trump
What's his contested possession/ uncontested possession count compared to Shiel ? Only reason I ask is if contested possession counts are higher generally efficiency is lower.
Not much difference at all.. Worpel has better disposal %
 

rogiebear93

Premiership Player
May 17, 2017
4,258
7,784
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Hi all! Just wanted so say I think Impey has had an amazing season and I think he is vastly underrated by the competition as a whole. Would be interested to hear what hawks fans think of a comparison between him and Adam Saad? Personally feel they are very similar players with Jarman being more conventional per se but they are both having great seasons so just interested in your thoughts. Thanks! ☺
They're both very good footballers that's for sure, they'd both be knocking on the door of the AA squad if it wasn't for blokes like Jake Lloyd getting touch after touch with 1/100th the impact.

I'd say Saad is a better defender, where Impey is more versatile.
 

rogiebear93

Premiership Player
May 17, 2017
4,258
7,784
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Not much difference at all.. Worpel has better disposal %
There's a big difference between Jaeger's role this year and Worpel's role though.

What we have this year isn't all that we'll ever get from Jags, mainly because he's playing outside of his most comfortable role in order for us to not get absolutely slaughtered through the middle. He's always in our top 3 for distance covered in a game, invariably is leading our contested possessions and is doing so with a bloke hanging off him.

He's getting far more attention than Titch ever got last year and there's one key reason for that.

Tagging is so far back in vogue this year because it's in the best interest of an opposition team to limit quick centre clearances into the forward half, and that is something that Jags absolutely dominates. He's easily our best player in that aspect and the third best player in the league for it, and the only player we have that is inside the top 30 odd. Next best is Worpel at 31.

He's suffering because he's trying to do what Titch had to do in 2017, but with more attention from the opposition in an environment that is putting more of the focus on him.

Just watch when Titch is back in the side, he'll get back to his early season production and be freed up to do a hell of a lot more forward of centre too.
 

Hawker55

Club Legend
Mar 17, 2011
1,893
2,442
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Everton, Denver Broncos
There's a big difference between Jaeger's role this year and Worpel's role though.

What we have this year isn't all that we'll ever get from Jags, mainly because he's playing outside of his most comfortable role in order for us to not get absolutely slaughtered through the middle. He's always in our top 3 for distance covered in a game, invariably is leading our contested possessions and is doing so with a bloke hanging off him.

He's getting far more attention than Titch ever got last year and there's one key reason for that.

Tagging is so far back in vogue this year because it's in the best interest of an opposition team to limit quick centre clearances into the forward half, and that is something that Jags absolutely dominates. He's easily our best player in that aspect and the third best player in the league for it, and the only player we have that is inside the top 30 odd. Next best is Worpel at 31.

He's suffering because he's trying to do what Titch had to do in 2017, but with more attention from the opposition in an environment that is putting more of the focus on him.

Just watch when Titch is back in the side, he'll get back to his early season production and be freed up to do a hell of a lot more forward of centre too.
This is very much true. It applies to Worpel as well - Mitchell being out means he's spending a crapload more time in and under rather than the way we usually develop mids where we ease them in, then play them as a tagger for a while before they settle into their role.

Next year Mitchell comes back in, O'Meara drops into the primary outside receiver with some inside work and Worpel will spend probably half as much time in the guts and more time forward.
 

Changa10

Premiership Player
Feb 10, 2008
3,547
3,654
Hobart
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
DCowboys, ManU, Celtics, Blackhawks

Leather Poisoning

Moderator
Jun 19, 2007
33,356
36,739
On the south side now
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
nil
This is very much true. It applies to Worpel as well - Mitchell being out means he's spending a crapload more time in and under rather than the way we usually develop mids where we ease them in, then play them as a tagger for a while before they settle into their role.

Next year Mitchell comes back in, O'Meara drops into the primary outside receiver with some inside work and Worpel will spend probably half as much time in the guts and more time forward.
Mitchell did the work of two midfielders.

Mitchell + O'Meara + Shiels = 4 midfielders
O'Meara + Worpel + Shiels = 3 midfielders

Starting mids next year will (hopefully) be:

Mitchell + O'Meara + Big off season A grade signing.
Then those that rotate through to support are: Shiels, Burgoyne, Worpel, Wingard (then Howe, etc)

The difference between what we're fielding this year and what we'll be fielding next year will be incredible.
 

AlwaysHawks15

Club Legend
Nov 12, 2014
1,897
1,924
AFL Club
Hawthorn
I had Grundy ahead for the first three quarters but Grundy dropped his bundle after he dropped the mark in defence and Ollie then snapped the goal from the pack.

Grundy was jogging along after McEvoy when McEvoy pushed forward to take the mark and kick the goal. Grundy's effort markedly dropped off in the last quarter, for whatever reason, and McEvoy took full advantage.

Good work by McEvoy, but if i were Buckley i would be very disappointed in Grundy's last quarter. Was a contributing factor in Hawthorn overcoming Collingwood.
The amount of work Grundy does is just amazing. Understandable that on occasions he feels the pinch late in games because he basically rucks all day by himself every game. The reliance on the guy is unhealthy and they are lucky out of all the injuries they have had he hasn't been 1 of them. Would be a disaster for them.
 

tommyk72

Premium Gold
Apr 10, 2007
2,919
3,295
Melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Mitchell did the work of two midfielders.

Mitchell + O'Meara + Shiels = 4 midfielders
O'Meara + Worpel + Shiels = 3 midfielders

Starting mids next year will (hopefully) be:

Mitchell + O'Meara + Big off season A grade signing.
Then those that rotate through to support are: Shiels, Burgoyne, Worpel, Wingard (then Howe, etc)

The difference between what we're fielding this year and what we'll be fielding next year will be incredible.
Where do u think Worpel and Shiels will rotate through? I think they need definite positions.
 
Top Bottom