Autopsy Round 16, 2019: North Melbourne v St.Kilda *BILLINGS' 100TH*

CanadianSaint

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Sep 10, 2015
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35 disposals
24 kicks
13 contested possessions
5 marks
4 clearances
6 tackles
9 inside 50's
8 rebound 50's
792m gained

Imagine criticising Billings' game today. Apparently that's still not good enough for some people on here. One of his best games for the club. Well done Jack.
Hes Elite... there are no question marks anymore. Supporters and the media just need to learn to live with the fact that we do have elite players, Billings is one of them.
 

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StKing11

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Thank goodness I didn't drive nearly 5 hours each way to watch the crappy Saints play irrelevant North in the feezing cold. I think we have quite a talented group of age 24 and under guys at the club but they're never going to go anywhere under Richo's archaic footy, maximum of 7 games left now under him surely..

How do you let Larkey and Zurhaar (who tf are they?) kick 10 between them ffs..

Billings a good game in his 100th, a couple of laughable posts in here trying to pot him. Career highs in disposals (35) inside 50's (9) and rebound 50's (8) along with nearly 800m gained, a couple of goal assists and 6 tackles. He's an icing on top of the cake type player who is stuck in a poor scrappy side, would be a total star in a good side ala Whifield at GWS.

Billings and Marshall would be battling it out for our B+F at this stage I would say.

Steele would have to be one of the best defensive mids in the game. Tackle king, elite in pressure acts, can do the run with roles. Just needs to up the offensive side of his game and he would be an A grader. Not sure if the problem is him or the role he is playing.

Clark is a bloody gun, ridiculous he's been dropped multiple times this year especially after by all accounts training the house down in pre season. Coffield was OK also other than two bad kicks in a row late in the game, like his dash and needs to play every game for the rest of the year.

Dunstan averaging 6 clearances a game this year is very pleasing, just wish he was more consistent. I'm a fan but he's frustrating.

Bruce and Carlisle (despite his occasional undisciplined acts) are our best on field leaders in the absence of Geary. Would like for one of them to be the next captain whenever that is, but feels like Ross is being groomed for the job. Speaking of, his game today was drop worthy, especially if Hannebery is good to come back in next week as Newnes did enough today to get another game. Has gone backwards in a big way Seb and is looking like a very vanilla nothing player at the moment, doesn't really do much inside as far as contested ball or tackles go and has no hurt factor on the outside with his average at best disposal and never kicks goals (17 in 117 games).

Feel like we aren't getting the best out of Gresham all that often and perhaps he is best as a fwd-mid De Goey style rather than trying to make him a genuine mid. Happy for them to persist with him as a mid for the rest of the year though.

Guys like Acres and Sinclair feel directionless this year, just floating through games around the flanks. Struggling to see clearly defined roles in the team for either of them, being wasted.

After a good start to the year I'm pretty well back to #eco as far as the results go, already starting to look ahead to the draft and hopefully no more Cho..
 

D2D3

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May 20, 2015
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From all reports, it sounds like Ross spent very little time in the midfield today and spent most of the game at half back trying to be the guy who sets up the structures and calms the backline down. And that he also spent time doing this last week. A very similar role to what the coaches tried Dave in for a few weeks but that failed spectacularly. That explains why he had no impact on the game and look lost since he was asked to do something completely unnatural for him.

But this is what I don't understand - why instead of trying pure midfielders in that role, why don't we try moving Jack Newnes back in that role, into the position be arguably played his best football in during the 2015/2016 era. Wouldn't that just make sense - he is vocal, loves telling people what to do, pretty decent vision, long and direct kick, can defend one-on-one and an absolute campaigner who doesn't mind fighting a small forward. Instead we have had to floundering on the wing, struggling for form for months when there is a position thats perfect for him that we are trying to make a natural midfielder do.

Then Ross goes back to what he does best in accumulating in the midfield, we can give Sinclair more wing time because Newnes isnt spending all his time there and we have someone who is experienced playing half back, actually playing half back.
Stop talking sense. We don’t do that at St Kilda
 

gringo2011

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Hes Elite... there are no question marks anymore. Supporters and the media just need to learn to live with the fact that we do have elite players, Billings is one of them.
Who are the others? He is probably getting close to it. If he did that every week he certainly would be considered elite. He's hard to pin down a position for so hard to compare him to others but elite means he's top 5 by position or something. I think he's probably A grade, he's rated around 165 in Player Ratings and in stats they have a list for player highlights on Footywire, Billings rates highly in these.


Ranked 20th in Total Disposals ● Ranked 6th in Total Uncontested Possessions
● Ranked 11th in Uncontested Possessions Per Game
 

Mikka84

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Feb 9, 2009
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Who are the others? He is probably getting close to it. If he did that every week he certainly would be considered elite. He's hard to pin down a position for so hard to compare him to others but elite means he's top 5 by position or something. I think he's probably A grade, he's rated around 165 in Player Ratings and in stats they have a list for player highlights on Footywire, Billings rates highly in these.


Ranked 20th in Total Disposals ● Ranked 6th in Total Uncontested Possessions
● Ranked 11th in Uncontested Possessions Per Game
Jack Steven 😭
 

pebblesofsand

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Well aside from a shocker of a first quarter (made worse by the loss of Battle which seriously unbalanced our defence) I reckon it was pretty good performance all round. Certainly lots there to build on.

Really thought we might win midway through the third when we got back into the game. But unfortunately a few things didn't go our way and they got some easy goals.

The appalling 50 metre against Parker because the player with the ball ran off the line, followed almost immediately up by a shocking turnover by Long when he kick wide to Carlisle rather than handballing to Dunstan and Hind who were streaming forward. I reckon it was about the same time Clark and about three Saints were free and the ball bounced backwards into the arms of the lone North player and they got a goal.

15 points down then turned into 33 and the game was pretty much done and dusted.

In hindsight Brown at FB would have been handy but that was only as a result of injury. Carlisle on Brown, Battle on Larkey, Wilkie on Zurhar for the whole game would have been a lot better.

Remarkable the difference it makes if you actually give the forward a chance to actually run at the ball rather than plonking it on his head.

Watched it with my NSW rugby following mate - his completely uninformed comments

A - we didn't seem to be able to clear the ball from the centre bounces as well as them,

B - we seem to need another tall bloke in the forward line who could mark the ball, and

C - they seemed to run harder than us.
 
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boydie

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Am I the only one that likes Long?

Is a really good lead up and mark guy for his size. Would like it if he had the confidence to just go back and have a shot when he gets it within 50 - always seems to look for a pass - probably a result of getting dropped.

Has aggression, has speed, has class. If we had to pick one small forward to be picked each game, he would be my choice. He has something.
Im a massive Long fan, him in the side makes us better IMO, even though he doesnt rack up stats, the ones he does get seem to create opportunities for us most of the time. Wished we used him as lead up fwd more at times, as looks like he can do it. I would also like to see him in a few center bounces a game as his creativity would be useful in there sometimes.

Those all talking about Ross being poor, are correct he has been poor lately, I think his issue is he cant be in same side as dunstan, just my opinion but they are too similar players, albeit dunstan is a little more in and under, but ross role when good over last couple years has been as that inside mid.

Happy Hunter is showing something, although hate him at HBF, should be running through mid, anyone else notice the 1 clearance he attended he got the clearance as he was in right place to rove perfect, seems natural to him.

Also Acres showing some signs, needs to be switched between deep fwd and centre whole game I reckon, couple of packs burst through looked good
 

pebblesofsand

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Im a massive Long fan, him in the side makes us better IMO, even though he doesnt rack up stats, the ones he does get seem to create opportunities for us most of the time. Wished we used him as lead up fwd more at times, as looks like he can do it. I would also like to see him in a few center bounces a game as his creativity would be useful in there sometimes.

Those all talking about Ross being poor, are correct he has been poor lately, I think his issue is he cant be in same side as dunstan, just my opinion but they are too similar players, albeit dunstan is a little more in and under, but ross role when good over last couple years has been as that inside mid.

Happy Hunter is showing something, although hate him at HBF, should be running through mid, anyone else notice the 1 clearance he attended he got the clearance as he was in right place to rove perfect, seems natural to him.

Also Acres showing some signs, needs to be switched between deep fwd and centre whole game I reckon, couple of packs burst through looked good
I hope I'm wrong but I'm thinking he will be nothing more than another GOP. His kick after the end of the 3rd quarter was appalling!!

On the positive side - he's still young and is contracted till 2022.

On the negative side - he doesn't win enough of the ball, makes poor decisions, is contracted till 2022.
 

boydie

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I hope I'm wrong but I'm thinking he will be nothing more than another GOP. His kick after the end of the 3rd quarter was appalling!!

On the positive side - he's still young and is contracted till 2022.

On the negative side - he doesn't win enough of the ball, makes poor decisions, is contracted till 2022.
Chilax, he has played 23 games
Yep kick after siren was putrid, but he aint the only one to do that, some do it from even closer to goals!
Yes does make couple poor decisions a game, but also makes a few bloody good ones that end in goal opportunities
Again with the doesnt win enough of the ball, well he plays fwd mostly in a team that butchers the ball going fwd mostly and bombs it on tops of peoples heads, thinkin a fwd not going to get much of a chance there.
He is one of only very few players at our club currently that can hit a target, I say that gets him a game currently
2nd highest ave of tackles inside fwd50 behind Lonie
 

t_94

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May 6, 2014
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Im a massive Long fan, him in the side makes us better IMO, even though he doesnt rack up stats, the ones he does get seem to create opportunities for us most of the time. Wished we used him as lead up fwd more at times, as looks like he can do it. I would also like to see him in a few center bounces a game as his creativity would be useful in there sometimes.

Those all talking about Ross being poor, are correct he has been poor lately, I think his issue is he cant be in same side as dunstan, just my opinion but they are too similar players, albeit dunstan is a little more in and under, but ross role when good over last couple years has been as that inside mid.

Happy Hunter is showing something, although hate him at HBF, should be running through mid, anyone else notice the 1 clearance he attended he got the clearance as he was in right place to rove perfect, seems natural to him.

Also Acres showing some signs, needs to be switched between deep fwd and centre whole game I reckon, couple of packs burst through looked good
I'm a big fan of his, but it's at the point where he needs to move past showing some signs. Otherwise he's just an average player who does a couple of eye catching things each game.
 

Saint believer

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Aug 28, 2015
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35 disposals
24 kicks
13 contested possessions
5 marks
4 clearances
6 tackles
9 inside 50's
8 rebound 50's
792m gained

Imagine criticising Billings' game today. Apparently that's still not good enough for some people on here. One of his best games for the club. Well done Jack.

Billings played a good consistent game and had composure all day but he didn't hurt the opposition as much as you would think just looking at those numbers.

As someone at the ground I would say at least half his long kicks (metres gained) went into a big open space which were immediately turned around by North defenders. You don't praise soccer player for kicking the ball long to the opposition.

Give me a stat of metres gained (maintaining possession) fo real meaning.
 

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Ricmel

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Really? Try telling me it didn't work for Billings moving him from half forward to the wing. Spare me. He's one of the best kicks in the team, has great endurance, why wouldn't you be playing him there? Go back to 2017 and tell me how Sincs went playing on a wing. Completely nonsensical and no reason for him not to be playing there now.
Mate, half forward flank you are as good as on the wing - especially the way we play with everyone flooding back. Half forward flank is just a position name on a sheet of paper - the flanker will play in a band between half forward and half back. If Sinclair had an ounce of consistency in him it wouldnt matter you play him half forward or wing or half back.
 

VDS66

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Oct 4, 2011
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I remember another kid that racked up similar numbers to Billings in losing teams.

He went on to win 2 Charlies.

The only problem with Billings is that we or have one of him.

Imagine if we had two more just-as-skilled mids clocking up those numbers.
 

BringBackPowerFwds

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When Bruce is fit and launching at the ball he is exciting to watch. He really worried the North defenders and I thought he was unlucky not to get a few more free kicks.(He will benefit from having King beside him- and vice versa, and the knock on effect for Membrey is he gets the 3rd best defender) I always feel like games are much more enjoyable to watch when the big guys are kicking bags.
I enjoyed the Marshall v Goldstein battle. I thought Marshall really tried to impose himself on the game and his tackling had real intent.
Coffield with a couple of bad turnovers and the only player not to register a tackle for the Saints was disappointing but I think he just needs time in ones to build his confidence and he will become a very good player.
Usual story though. We are like a deer in the headlights. Slow to react and when we finally do it's too late
 

Ricmel

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Give me a stat of metres gained (maintaining possession) fo real meaning.
I agree, metres gained is one of those stats that it missing a key component - retained possession. If you have 15 kicks a game and you bomb it 50 metres with every kick, you are going to be No.1 in the AFL for metres gained.

Billings is 43rd in the AFL for metres gained - not great for someone who spends a lot of time rebounding from defense but I think the stat is almost irrelevant. What I would like to see Billings do is get creative - become a playmaker, not just a link man.
 

pebblesofsand

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I'm a big fan of his, but it's at the point where he needs to move past showing some signs. Otherwise he's just an average player who does a couple of eye catching things each game.
Yep - and that's the thing - I know its early but he's yet to actually dominate even a section of the game which would make you think he's going to be something special (Gresh like) .

Its not his fault but he looks more like a solid 30/40 pick than an early 20's smart selection.

As I said originally he's still young and it could turn out a real positive that he's contracted till 22. I hope the club are better judges than me!!!
 

dct66

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Sorry for the rant, it has been waiting for years:

For accountability, surely there needs to be serious, impartial, public analysis of umpires. Players are endlessly analysed and their efforts published minute by minute on the afl website. But no scrutiny for umpires?

Simple, easy to collect data about umpiring. A breakdown of freekicks per zone of ground (D50, DM, FM, F50) for each game, scores from freekicks etc. Why not a breakdown of individual umpire stats per game, team by team? It is not difficult to collect, I expect it already is by the umpires' association but as with everything they do, is veiled in secrecy. If there is resistance from the afl, why not crowdfund for an experienced, respected, impartial ex-umpire to rate games?...scores for 50/50s given/not given each way; higher scores for obvious frees given/not given each way; find an appropriate weighting for location of free on the ground. We know footballers are evaluated impartially by 1000 media organisations every match they play. An individual umpire is likely to have significantly more impact on the result of a reasonably even contest than the average player, so why not have at least one impartial organisation to do the same for the highly paid umpires? 10-20c per afl member per year would easily finance such a service if the afl are belligerently unwilling.

I use the eye test when I watch a game and the count is clearly against us. But I am biased. When I am stuck listening to radio I tally the times that impartial commentators talk about "it must be a freekick!" but no; or "how could that be a freekick?" and it is. It is 4:1 consistently against the saints. That is not even considering the ridiculous positions of the frees. If there is no accountability, there is not a fair competition.

In the first half today 6 goals from frees I50 for Nth, 1 for us (though ours was at 48m and theirs' mostly 20m directly in front). There are always frees deserved and those missed as well, but 6:1 is a pretty significant outcome. Second half 1 free plus 50m penalty to Nth for a goal, 0 for us. 7:1 for the game. Overall stats say we had less frees, 25-16 in the end, though in the first half when the game was to be won we were less than 50% of their frees save for 2 mins and half their frees resulted in goals. So they had more goals from frees than we had frees. Without these stats there is no real appreciation of the impact that umpires have on the game. I had to do that research myself, why not publish it? Just as umpires react at halftime if they hear there is a lopsided count (as they may have done today), if publicised I expect they will think twice about dealing this regular tripe out again. I was an umpire for many years, I know the grudges that umpires have, they are flawed like us all, but need to be accountable like us all. Pay them twice as much but make them accountable.
I think this would be great. Surely no-one could argue if Champion Data kept detailed stats on free kicks. Maybe they do but given the mob mentality of a lot of fans an umpire's life would be hell if they were on the wrong side of the ledger. Anyway we do need some sort of impartial criticism of umpiring decisions, not umpires per se. Ross lightly wraps an arm around a Nth forward, free kick right in front. Steele almost takes a mark in the goal square but drops it because his arm and head are chopped by Goldy ... no free kick.

I'm biased of course. I watch the game through RWB glasses but the two Dusty Martin non-decisions last week and the many 50-50s that went North's way yesterday but not our way can't all be me seeing it wrong. It does seem that the team who plays better on the day get the rub of the green and maybe that is a case of 'you make your own luck'.

That said we are a very dumb footy club. We give away very basic free kicks. Parker 50 and the Carlisle abuse just two from yesterday's game - both goals to North.
 

Winmar2Lockett

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Well I timed the mid year family break to Bali beautifully by the sounds of things.

Spent last Saturday bike riding and white water rafting so missed the last qtr v Tigers.

And enjoyed watching the two Creed movies back to back on the flight home yesterday so couldn’t subject myself to the horror of Hobart.

Pity we couldn’t extend the break by another week...


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Winmar2Lockett

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Agree, complete rebuild required. However, it must start with Finnis not at the club. He is an unmitigated disaster. Zero passion, Mr PC, NFI.

No more lawyers or AFL careerists please, let's find somebody who has actually run a business before.
For unmitigated disaster see:

Archie Fraser
Michael Nettlefold




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adas

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Mar 22, 2010
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Hi guys,

Pardon the intrusion.

Just wanted to say Marshall looks an absolute beauty. Reckon he will develop into the best ruckman in the league in the next couple of years in the Dean Cox mould. At times made Goldy look like a schoolboy with his strength.

Good luck for the rest of the season.
 
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