Autopsy Round 16, 2020: St.Kilda v Hawthorn *GEARY 200TH*

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Diehard Saint

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Jan 17, 2016
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i like the fact we tried to slow it down. especially with the dominance hawthorn was having in the marking contest on the high ball.

we need to do more of what Clarko is whinging about!
That’s exactly what Ratts said earlier in the season that we needed to learn how to do, especially to stop momentum when the opposition get a run on.
So if he’s whinging about it, it means we did it effectively. Maybe a little too much, according to Ratts, but we’re learning to get the balance right.
 

StCicatriz

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he literally had a five goal better game than Ferguson. Ferguson had four kicked on him, Abbott kicked one.
bit of a difference playing as ruck compared to a KPD. the goals kicked on him will always be less.

have to look at the dominance of the hawthorn ruck over him. abbott is 29, he's not a young ruck developing. i think the plan was to bring him in, let him take a lot of the ruck work to give ryder reduced minutes and let marshall play a full game forward.

problem is hawthorn had so much midfield ascendancy from it, at some stage kicking all their goals from clearance, that we had to completely abandon the idea and through ryder back in full time.

he just won't cut it.
 

StCicatriz

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That’s exactly what Ratts said earlier in the season that we needed to learn how to do, especially to stop momentum when the opposition get a run on.
So if he’s whinging about it, it means we did it effectively. Maybe a little too much, according to Ratts, but we’re learning to get the balance right.
tend to agree. i think the part where we fell down is our connect when employing that strategy was not good enough. we need to be better at leaving little holes around for a single player to lead into. need to time it better so we can get the small chip game going. the better we get at it, the quicker it will become, removing clarko's criticism completely.

the contest side though, that's a big worry. we ended up beating up on them in the 3rd from memory, but geeze we should have been dominating all game for the side the hawks have.
 

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Joffaboy

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bit of a difference playing as ruck compared to a KPD. the goals kicked on him will always be less.

have to look at the dominance of the hawthorn ruck over him. abbott is 29, he's not a young ruck developing. i think the plan was to bring him in, let him take a lot of the ruck work to give ryder reduced minutes and let marshall play a full game forward.

problem is hawthorn had so much midfield ascendancy from it, at some stage kicking all their goals from clearance, that we had to completely abandon the idea and through ryder back in full time.

he just won't cut it.
Of course he wont make it, I was just being a smart arse.

Everything you posted is correct. I was happy for the bloke to kick a goal in AFL football, and it was an important goal, but really the guy is not even as good as Rix.
 

robjude

Debutant
May 27, 2010
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eddie betts is 5 kegs heavier!!! that before you look at the output of both.
Lol, Kevin Bartlett same weight and same height ... your point? I never said at any stage that Lonie was anywhere near as good as those two so no need to mention their outputs. My point is Lonie is as good as any other small forward in our team bar Butler, please prove to me anything different.
 

The_Steadier

Norm Smith Medallist
May 6, 2009
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bit of a difference playing as ruck compared to a KPD. the goals kicked on him will always be less.

have to look at the dominance of the hawthorn ruck over him. abbott is 29, he's not a young ruck developing. i think the plan was to bring him in, let him take a lot of the ruck work to give ryder reduced minutes and let marshall play a full game forward.

problem is hawthorn had so much midfield ascendancy from it, at some stage kicking all their goals from clearance, that we had to completely abandon the idea and through ryder back in full time.

he just won't cut it.
Won't cut it as what?

A dominant first choice ruckman in the AFL?

Colour me shocked.

Ceglar is a very good ruckman with a brownlow medalist and worpel at his feet... Abbott is a minimum wage depth guy giving marshall a day off, with seb ross and a quiet steele and jones at his feet.

Ceglar beat ryder most of the day too, it's not as though Abbott was up against a useless crab and still didn't do great.
 

StCicatriz

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Lol, Kevin Bartlett same weight and same height ... your point? I never said at any stage that Lonie was anywhere near as good as those two so no need to mention their outputs. My point is Lonie is as good as any other small forward in our team bar Butler, please prove to me anything different.
You're comparing him to a guy who last played 40 years ago? What about when he debuted that would bring it close to 55 years ago if not more! Half a century!

Quick lets go compare steele to Haydn Bunton Snr!

How tall were ruckmen back then?
 

StCicatriz

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Won't cut it as what?

A dominant first choice ruckman in the AFL?

Colour me shocked.

Ceglar is a very good ruckman with a brownlow medalist and worpel at his feet... Abbott is a minimum wage depth guy giving marshall a day off, with seb ross and a quiet steele and jones at his feet.

Ceglar beat ryder most of the day too, it's not as though Abbott was up against a useless crab and still didn't do great.
Correct indeed. I dont think we need him moving forward. Probably better off looking at the draft.
 

robjude

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You're comparing him to a guy who last played 40 years ago? What about when he debuted that would bring it close to 55 years ago if not more! Half a century!

Quick lets go compare steele to Haydn Bunton Snr!

How tall were ruckmen back then?
A wise man once told me you cannot educate idiots so don't even try to. So I will just say one last thing on this subject, regardless of what era these guys played and their relative abilities, they both have/are playing football at the highest level at that same weight. Surely you can even comprehend that. Perhaps not!!
 

SaintsSeptember

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Correct indeed. I dont think we need him moving forward. Probably better off looking at the draft.
Unless you want to use a first rounder ( and even then ) , you draft a ruckman that MIGHT be able to play in 4 years time. Like Bell.
Have a look when Gawn was drafted and when he was able to effectively ruck.
 

plugger66

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Thoughts the day after. We lacked hunger or confidence early and it showed with our attack on the ball. Very smart coaching in the second quarter to slow it down and get some confidence back in that we were controlling the footy. Looked terrible but who cares. After that I always thought we would win and so we should. Hawthorn off a short break and are going poorly. Hopefully that game gets our confidence up for Thursday. We need to attack the ball harder at the start though but for once we will have the better midfield over wce. Be a while since that happened. Also our ins are a huge improvement on our outs. We are a mid short but I’m not sure bytel can play. No obvious out for him especially if Carlisle replaces Phillips. Anyway it was an ordinary game with the perfect result in the end.
 

Ducky Tie

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The Battle on a wing idea has upside but we've got to park it for now. Other than the Essendon game, he hasn't found enough footy for a winger. It's hurt Billings game too having Battle and Phillips take up wing time. Get Billings back to a wing/midfield role and put Battle in the forwardline, where he looked dangerous in the second half yesterday.
 

plugger66

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The Battle on a wing idea has upside but we've got to park it for now. Other than the Essendon game, he hasn't found enough footy for a winger. It's hurt Billings game too having Battle and Phillips take up wing time. Get Billings back to a wing/midfield role and put Battle in the forwardline, where he looked dangerous in the second half yesterday.
I think people forget that. Billings is better winger than battle. Battle is a better mark that billings. Play both in their best positions.
 

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malevu

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Lonie taking the set shot, using his full 30 seconds sine tad of running into the goal is another underrated moment of just reading the situation well.

Sinclair was immense today. We wouldn't have won without his composure and smarts.
Sinclair finally seems to have developed a man's body. No doubt a bit of gym work's helped. I always thought that him and Lonie looked like they'd come straight from Auskick.

I reckon it's now starting to show in Sinclair's game. He seems stronger in the clinches and not so easily brushed aside. His form of late has moved him out of the Lonie, Parker, Hind, Kent small forward roundabout. At least for the time being.
 

gringo2011

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Lonie's a talented footballer but if he's going to make it he's got to find a way to make tackles stick. He's like a small yappy dog, yesterday he was able to worry some pups out of the ball but a German Shepard would just bowl through him.
I actually think perceived pressure is as valuable to be honest. They stopped playing holding the ball now. Causing a ball up or a turnover are equally good. A few of Lonies and Hills second and third efforts did that to their defence.
 

kernelT

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He wasn't alone yesterday in blazing away, but Phillips showed his limitations. Ignores two or three options in better positions than his snap under pressure. Jones and Marsh were guilty of it as well off the top of my head.

View attachment 955221
Wow it looked ordinary at the time, but that freeze frame makes it even worse… a basic handball there means a certain goal.
 

CarnTheSAINTERS

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He wasn't alone yesterday in blazing away, but Phillips showed his limitations. Ignores two or three options in better positions than his snap under pressure. Jones and Marsh were guilty of it as well off the top of my head.

View attachment 955221
That was the lowlight for me. His decision making was Auskick level. Then straight after he let his man lose for an open goal.
 

Tigerssaints

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Lonie's a talented footballer but if he's going to make it he's got to find a way to make tackles stick. He's like a small yappy dog, yesterday he was able to worry some pups out of the ball but a German Shepard would just bowl through him.
Lonie too small, and has a bad conversion rate(points ) and can play selfish ,thats why he gets dropped
time to try some one else. any ideas
 

Ducky Tie

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You can see why they want to give Marsh some chances. He’s got something. Created a couple of goals by winning it at ground level, being strong in the tackle, getting a little burst in and dishing out a good handball.

Membrey comes back in for him but he wasn’t bad. Should’ve taken his chance in the first quarter.
 

plugger66

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Lonie too small, and has a bad conversion rate(points ) and can play selfish ,thats why he gets dropped
time to try some one else. any ideas
Yep I’ve got an idea. Watch his good. Don’t go into it with bias and only look for his bad. Perfect example of that is saying he is selfish. For a small forward I’d say one of his biggest strengths is his team play and pressure.
 

#gosaintas

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Nov 11, 2013
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Yep I’ve got an idea. Watch his good. Don’t go into it with bias and only look for his bad. Perfect example of that is saying he is selfish. For a small forward I’d say one of his biggest strengths is his team play and pressure.
He's nearly there isn't he. He has the nous and the attitude but he's a 1/2 yard slow, a poor tackler and undersized. He can probably train to be more dynamic over 3 steps and he can certainly train to be a more effective tackler. Hit attitude is spot on and being hungry for a goal is his job. He does look to dish off too. I liked his game yesterday after watching it again. He actually lifted them when we were looking lethargic early.
 

stavro#4

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tend to agree. i think the part where we fell down is our connect when employing that strategy was not good enough. we need to be better at leaving little holes around for a single player to lead into. need to time it better so we can get the small chip game going. the better we get at it, the quicker it will become, removing clarko's criticism completely.

the contest side though, that's a big worry. we ended up beating up on them in the 3rd from memory, but geeze we should have been dominating all game for the side the hawks have.
For half a game Ceglar dominated the ruck and Mitchell + Worpel are very good extractors.

We are also missing our best clearance player in Gresh. So I don’t hold it against the midfielders for not getting on top early.

kick straighter in the first half I.e 8.5 instead of 5.8 and we have a comfortable 3 goal lead. The Hawks then open up and we can play more fast footy.

Lastly - the key to us competing with the elite clubs, Will be as simple as taking our chances. Atleast until we develop another A grade mid or King can start dominating games in the air.
 

Tigerssaints

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Yep I’ve got an idea. Watch his good. Don’t go into it with bias and only look for his bad. Perfect example of that is saying he is selfish. For a small forward I’d say one of his biggest strengths is his team play and pressure.
ok , i never met the guy Lonie
his his stats
24 y 175 cm 70 kg
kicked 65 goals 74 points
He is not a A grader
Must convert better , and stop trying to kick impossible goals.
maybe a move to the wing ( billings roll )

 

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