Preview Round 16, 2022: Carlton v St.Kilda - Marvel Stadium, Friday 1st July, 7:50PM AEST

[lewdogs]

Right now, no one in particular. In the recent past we've seen Billings fail to perform, Hill fail to perform for weeks at a time. Seb Ross years ago, perhaps Paton this year. But it seems to always be the same handful of players that get omitted after bad performances (Butler, the first year players, Kent etc.)

It would be nice if people would get over the whole Hill being dropped thing. He responded and ended up being top ten in our best and fairest and is now killing it this year.

 

[Klaatu]

Its always amusing to me that people are like "if youve never coached then dont talk" like youre not entitled to have an opinion unless youve done it.

Wouldnt be much discussion on anything would there.

Ultimately the way the AFL works is if the teams not performing the coach gets the boot. Like it or not, that just the way it works.

If Ratts gameplan isnt working then its on him. If the players arent following it thats also on him. If the players arent playing with effort and vigour etc. Then we can certainly blame the players but there is only so much we can do about it (you cant really de list 10 players).

The buck stops with the coach, whether thats fair or not.

Have your opinion no one said you couldn't, but to suggest playing guy's from Sandy when they can't get a kick there or are not ready just for change sake is silly conversation.

 

[Klaatu]

And on game plan it is a collective group of coaches that run it, maybe it's the ball movement coach or maybe it's the players with concrete boots not moving, can only do so much once out there it's on them.

 

[MordySaint]

Don't worry, we will just see a review and one of these again at the end of the year. Ratten needs better support...

Football department changes

St Kilda Football Club will say goodbye to four long-term football department staff members as it prepares for the season ahead.

www.saints.com.au

 

[phantom13]

Have your opinion no one said you couldn't, but to suggest playing guy's from Sandy when they can't get a kick there or are not ready just for change sake is silly conversation.

Opposed to guys who arent getting a kick at AFL?

I suggested Highmore, Bytel (hes injured to be fair), Heath and Joyce...

Who there is genuinely silly to suggest? Noting that im saying they cant be much worse than who they are filling in for OR we may as well see what we have in them given were not going to win these games anyway?

 

[Klaatu]

Opposed to guys who arent getting a kick at AFL?

I suggested Highmore, Bytel (hes injured to be fair), Heath and Joyce...

Who there is genuinely silly to suggest? Noting that im saying they cant be much worse than who they are filling in for OR we may as well see what we have in them given were not going to win these games anyway?

Highmore competeing with Battle pre-season & Battle got the nod & has performed so Highmore must out Webster or Patton, Bytel injury prone until he strings 6 games in a row he won't get a look in, Heath 2023 towards the end will play 1/2 doz games next year he is not ready yet, Joyce is 3rd in line maybe Sandy is his level & isn't tall enough for KP in AFL need to be 200cm for FB position.

 

[phantom13]

Highmore competeing with Battle pre-season & Battle got the nod & has performed so Highmore must out Webster or Patton, Bytel injury prone until he strings 6 games in a row he won't get a look in, Heath 2023 towards the end will play 1/2 doz games next year he is not ready yet, Joyce is 3rd in line maybe Sandy is his level & isn't tall enough for KP in AFL need to be 200cm for FB position.

Highmore can dislodge any of them, we dont need to play to the exact same structure. My point is were not winning and not playing well so whats the harm in moving the magnets in a game were not going to win anyway (might be a 12 goal loss instead of a 10). Hell have him forward for all i care.

Bytel fair, hes injured now, i dont see why hed need six games to give him a run, were seeing if hes worth persisting with so have at it.

Heath against whoever West Coast has (assuming NicNats not back) or Stanley v Geelong is hardly a baptism of fire. See how he finds the level. Marshall looks sore and Paddy will need a another rest plus, again, were not winning 6 of our next 8 anyway

Joyce is 4 cm shorter than Dougal and a Kilo heavier. Hes also 5cm taller than Steven May. Weird obession with 4cm. You dont have to be 200cm to be an AFL fullback. David Astbury was a 3 x Premiership fullback. Ill give you one guess how tall he was.

 

[Mowman]

Highmore can dislodge any of them, we dont need to play to the exact same structure. My point is were not winning and not playing well so whats the harm in moving the magnets in a game were not going to win anyway (might be a 12 goal loss instead of a 10). Hell have him forward for all i care.

Bytel fair, hes injured now, i dont see why hed need six games to give him a run, were seeing if hes worth persisting with so have at it.

Heath against whoever West Coast has (assuming NicNats not back) or Stanley v Geelong is hardly a baptism of fire. See how he finds the level. Marshall looks sore and Paddy will need a another rest plus, again, were not winning 6 of our next 8 anyway

Joyce is 4 cm shorter than Dougal and a Kilo heavier. Hes also 5cm taller than Steven May. Weird obession with 4cm. You dont have to be 200cm to be an AFL fullback. David Astbury was a 3 x Premiership fullback. Ill give you one guess how tall he was.

Drop Howard and his silly little fake handball BS and bring in Highmore

 

[lewdogs]

Highmore can dislodge any of them, we dont need to play to the exact same structure. My point is were not winning and not playing well so whats the harm in moving the magnets in a game were not going to win anyway (might be a 12 goal loss instead of a 10). Hell have him forward for all i care.

Bytel fair, hes injured now, i dont see why hed need six games to give him a run, were seeing if hes worth persisting with so have at it.

Heath against whoever West Coast has (assuming NicNats not back) or Stanley v Geelong is hardly a baptism of fire. See how he finds the level. Marshall looks sore and Paddy will need a another rest plus, again, were not winning 6 of our next 8 anyway

Joyce is 4 cm shorter than Dougal and a Kilo heavier. Hes also 5cm taller than Steven May. Weird obession with 4cm. You dont have to be 200cm to be an AFL fullback. David Astbury was a 3 x Premiership fullback. Ill give you one guess how tall he was.

Bring in Heath, honestly mate are you taking the piss?

 

[westernsainter]

No idea why but got a good feeling about this one. Reckon it took the Blues quite a bit to get so prepared mentally and physically for the Dockers last week and our boys are surely desperate to get a win.

 

[phantom13]

Bring in Heath, honestly mate are you taking the piss?

Whats the harm? Weve got a busted ruck and an old ruck and Tom Campbell (who isnt the future).

Bring him in as a second fiddle against a side with a s**t ruckman.

You all seem to think im saying do it cause hes banging down the door, im not, im saying years cooked anyway, lets see what the kids got. He might suprise or he might do exactly what wed expect, either way were no worse off are we.

 

[lewdogs]

Whats the harm? Weve got a busted ruck and an old ruck and Tom Campbell (who isnt the future).

Bring him in as a second fiddle against a side with a s**t ruckman.

You all seem to think im saying do it cause hes banging down the door, im not, im saying years cooked anyway, lets see what the kids got. He might suprise or he might do exactly what wed expect, either way were no worse off are we.

Well he has been the worst performed player at Sandringham over the last month so if you want him to come in and embarrass himself I'm sure that will be great for his development.

However if we are deliberately trying to lose games while destroying the confidence of young players then I'd say it's a great move.

 

[phantom13]

Well he has been the worst performed player at Sandringham over the last month so if you want him to come in and embarrass himself I'm sure that will be great for his development.

However if we are deliberately trying to lose games while destroying the confidence of young players then I'd say it's a great move.

Or he comes in and finds that he can play at the level, kicks a goal, has 10 touches and a few hitouts.

* you reckon me and gringo2011 are the pessimists.

He plays a game or two and either shows a bit or doesnt. If hes awful he goes back to Sandy with some lessons learnt and if hes anything better than awful it probably gives him a boost.

Were almost certain to lose games without trying to so we may as well try to get something out of them, or we can just keep playing the same 22 that got flogged the last two weeks, finish 12th and all feel like weve achieved absolutely nothing.

 

[bergholt]

Or he comes in and finds that he can play at the level, kicks a goal, has 10 touches and a few hitouts.

* you reckon me and gringo2011 are the pessimists.

He plays a game or two and either shows a bit or doesnt. If hes awful he goes back to Sandy with some lessons learnt and if hes anything better than awful it probably gives him a boost.

Were almost certain to lose games without trying to so we may as well try to get something out of them, or we can just keep playing the same 22 that got flogged the last two weeks, finish 12th and all feel like weve achieved absolutely nothing.

This guy kicked a goal in his first game, whatever happened to him:

 

[gringo2011]

It would be nice if people would get over the whole Hill being dropped thing. He responded and ended up being top ten in our best and fairest and is now killing it this year.

Is he killing it though? He's had seven games under 21 disposals two of them netted 10 and 9 possessions. His best games where he got over 30 or more possessions were against Fremantle, North and the Crows.

Blake Acres is equal or better and we would't have had to pay anything except his wage. If we'd taken Langdon instead we would have got him for next to nothing and provided exactly what we'd wanted Hill to provide as the end to end hard running wingman.

He's certainly made him self a best 22 player after a very underwhelming start which is handy because there was a minute there that it looked as though we'd ended up with a liability.

 

[BrutThough]

Or he comes in and finds that he can play at the level, kicks a goal, has 10 touches and a few hitouts.

* you reckon me and gringo2011 are the pessimists.

He plays a game or two and either shows a bit or doesnt. If hes awful he goes back to Sandy with some lessons learnt and if hes anything better than awful it probably gives him a boost.

Were almost certain to lose games without trying to so we may as well try to get something out of them, or we can just keep playing the same 22 that got flogged the last two weeks, finish 12th and all feel like weve achieved absolutely nothing.

Throwing in someone getting 6 touches in the VFL isn't achieving anything either.

Yes we have lost the past 2 games in a poor manner. But it is just ridiculous to then suggest we give up on the rest of the season and throw in some young kids to get monstered. One of the criticisms always levelled at the playing group is that they are mentally weak yet here some are campaigning for the club to run away from the challenge of turning our form around and to just give up on the season.

 

[Saintbloke]

Why did we recruit Campbell- as a backup ruck, or just a Sandy player? We have Paddy out against the Swans and instead of bringing in our backup ruck who is in good form, we shove an inexperienced forward with a non ruckman body into a ruck role and end having him running around like a headless chook instead of settling as a forward...we lose a ruck and a forward effectively for the game. Just plain dumb coaching and selection.

 

[gringo2011]

Have your opinion no one said you couldn't, but to suggest playing guy's from Sandy when they can't get a kick there or are not ready just for change sake is silly conversation.

Not if it's a form of future planning. Give some of them a run, gives the seniors a kick up the arse and best case you find a hidden gem. We are about a 20% chance of beating anyone at the moment and it's getting to that point where the psychological damage will ruin them. Having you best 22 slaughtered every week isn't doing anything for anyone.

It's not tanking, it's just being realistic about our year from here and starting to plot for a tilt in a few years time. Sides like Collingwood and Adelaide will jump us at this rate and they are stacked with kids. We don't even have that to fall back on.

 

[phantom13]

This guy kicked a goal in his first game, whatever happened to him:

View attachment 1435666

Is that Lewis Pierce? Is this meant to indicate that we shouldnt play Heath?

Plenty of guys were given an early game, some it works out for some it doesnt. I have no idea if Heath will be good in a year or 2 or 10 but i dont see any harm in giving him a run. Not like the current 22 are keeping anyone out.

Throwing in someone getting 6 touches in the VFL isn't achieving anything either.

Yes we have lost the past 2 games in a poor manner. But it is just ridiculous to then suggest we give up on the rest of the season and throw in some young kids to get monstered. One of the criticisms always levelled at the playing group is that they are mentally weak yet here some are campaigning for the club to run away from the challenge of turning our form around and to just give up on the season.

Really depends on whether the season is done yet. I wouldnt play Heath this week but against West Coast when were probably 8-9 and have lost 6 on the trot and they have Bailey J Williams (yes i had to look that up) and hes playing alongside Ryder (who i think is making that trip for family reasons) and were resting Roma from whatever ailment he has I dont see what the harm is.

Personally i couldnt give a s**t what the club does but if we persist with the current crop of 25-28 players we have and finish 9-13 it will have been a complete waste of the year. I cant see anyway we make finals so the only thing left to achieve is to work out exactly where were at to me.

 

[BrutThough]

Really depends on whether the season is done yet. I wouldnt play Heath this week but against West Coast when were probably 8-9 and have lost 6 on the trot and they have Bailey J Williams (yes i had to look that up) and hes playing alongside Ryder (who i think is making that trip for family reasons) and were resting Roma from whatever ailment he has I dont see what the harm is.

Personally i couldnt give a s**t what the club does but if we persist with the current crop of 25-28 players we have and finish 9-13 it will have been a complete waste of the year. I cant see anyway we make finals so the only thing left to achieve is to work out exactly where were at to me.

We could be 11-6 by the time we play West Coast. And if we haven't won another game by the time we get to them, i certainly hope we wouldn't throw away our chance of getting a win just to watch the poor kid run around looking lost in a different coloured jumper.

The calls to just give up, sack some people and drop a bunch of players is just asking for us to waste the season. I'd much rather we fought to turn our form around and missed the finals by 1 game than just give up now because it seems too hard. I'd rather know we tried and our best wasn't good enough than just give up because it's easier to tell ourselves we are planning for future.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

What sort of crowd do we expect? Friday night footy prime time

GA has sold out

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

Just FYI everyone after 8.15PM there will be no trains between Flinders Street -Westall/Mordialloc/Sandringham

 

[Cairnsman]

Thats bullshit, we are a decent coaching set up short. People think we still have Richo's list which was Steven and Seb out the guts, Newnes and Billings off a wing and Bruce and Membrey with Lonie and Gresh at their feet. Carlisle and Brown down back with Savage off HB. That was a very ordinary list.

Carlton have Cripps, Walsh and Cerra with some extras like Kennedy that go through there. We have Steele, Ross, Crouch and Gresham and Jones. To me Cripps is an absolute star but then we even out and probably not far off in comparison. It's certainly isn't a crippling difference that explains what the difference is.

Forward Curnow and McKay are stars then a few okay smalls. We have King Membrey and Snags who are all high scorers.

Their whole backline has been decimated. Ours is our best line.


Anyone that excuses this list as not being up to a top 4 side just lets them off the hook like we've don for 150 years.

To me in a year with hardly any standout teams Ratts coaching set up has massively failed. I think we finish 9th to 14th most likely after sitting comfortably top 4. Ratts has got about 6 months to turn this around or he won't see out the first year of his extension.

now I can see why you are so emotional, we are not a top 4 side yet and what happened in 2020 is not deeply rooted in reality, that year was heavily compromised by the pandemic. last year we came back to where we should be. There are a many positives from this year though, we have found some more players who have potential to possibly become flag types but they could also plateau and not make the grade yet. It's about patients and continuing to improve and I think we could be ready to be a top 4 side in the next 2 or 3 years if we can continue to have success with recruiting like we have in the past few years. Our recruitment department has the most important job right now.

 

[George]

Drop Howard and his silly little fake handball BS and bring in Highmore

Can't agree there, Howard offers the element of surprise that we've all been crying out for. We're too predictable. I would encourage more of Howard's pirouettes to entice the defenders towards him and then double down by skying it which is a masterstroke from the vice captain because we have the two rucks and King who can mark it over anyone else.

If you can't see the value Howard's fake-outs have to the side then I'm afraid you don't really understand the tactical side of football. Shame really.

 

[gringo2011]

now I can see why you are so emotional, we are not a top 4 side yet and what happened in 2020 is not deeply rooted in reality, that year was heavily compromised by the pandemic. last year we came back to where we should be. There are a many positives from this year though, we have found some more players who have potential to possibly become flag types but they could also plateau and not make the grade yet. It's about patients and continuing to improve and I think we could be ready to be a top 4 side in the next 2 or 3 years if we can continue to have success with recruiting like we have in the past few years. Our recruitment department has the most important job right now.

I just think it's bullshit that the side we have can't compete with any other sides from the top 8. The only difference between us and others is an ability to push through the mental stuff. We've beaten most of the top 8 sides in the last few years. The list isn't static and other sides have issues too.

Giving them an out like the list isn't good enough hasn't stopped plenty of similar sides. We need to stop excusing them, they are underperforming and our coaching is absolute s**t. Horse worked Ratts out and smashed us into the ground. If Ratts hasn't got a handle on it get us Choco as a director of coaching before we miss another window with a below par coach.