Review Round 16 - vs Richmond.

Camsta

Team Captain
May 12, 2018
426
863
AFL Club
Gold Coast
This situation absolutely reeks of Carlton pre Bolton sacking a month ago.

- Bereft of talent in the 23-29 age bracket
- Playing an ultra defensive game style
- Getting flogged because the players don't care

Now I'm not saying the same thing would happen if Dew was replaced, but this Gold Coast team is playing with no belief whatsoever and it's pretty deplorable.

One of the major contributions for Bolton's sacking was Cripps had put in the cue for two or three rounds.
There were strong and valid murmurs of him moving back to WA at season's end.
We almost had to sack Bolton to attempt to salvage the season for player retention's sake (which we are doing now thank goodness).

At Gold Coast we have a history of poor player retention issue, and if you ask my the list is NOT indicative of the first half performance.
It's the players not buying into a system and being over-coached, which is exactly what was happening with Bolton's Blues.

Teague takes over at Carlton and says "play to your strengths and don't second guess yourself, if that doesn't work then will make changes".
Similar thing has been happening under Shaw at North Melbourne.
The players of both teams have so much belief and are playing well above expectations recently, despite being under interim coaches.

What I am saying is that if Dew doesn't pull his head in and re-asses his coaching methods, another loss or two like this has to put pressure on his job and rightfully so.

Gold Coast simply can't afford to have losses like this moving forward.
It's too damaging to the brand.
We’re in year 1 of a rebuild and you’re in year 5 - bit of hyperventilation to call for the coaches head.

Look at Brisbane 2017 (in their first proper year under fagan) and they were much more competitive but got pasted in 2 or 3 games by 100+ points. Their round 6 against Geelong was almost a carbon copy of the weekend.

The result on the weekend was not acceptable but think we need to keep our heads on - leave the over-dramatization and doom and gloom to the media.

Now you lot and north have sacked their coach they have to find something to fill the herald sun.
 

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Sunnies

Rookie
Oct 21, 2018
38
38
AFL Club
Gold Coast
Well you're right that Bolton was an awful coach but I think you're overrating the Carlton list a little.

Better, sure.
Far better? Debatable.

There's a lot of good youth on the Gold Coast list that mirrors Carlton's youth.
The dirge in middle-tier age bracket definitely exist for both clubs.

5+ years after a half like that? That's asinine.

Will you be saying the same thing if these types of losses are continuing into next year?

If I was being very generous I'd say Dew gets one more year and if the performances don't improve then the Club has to be proactive.

You can call me reactionary, but your position is that of inaction which is undoubtedly worse.

Standards are important.
I agree with your assessment. We have not been more than 20 points up against a team for the while season. We play a defensive brand of football which is meant to limit opposition scoring against us and then hang on for a win if we’re around the mark. It’s been good up to now because we couldn’t have another year of being flogged but there’s a couple of problems with it. Firstly, it’s a highly taxing brand of football which the players are struggling to deliver week in week out. Secondly if a team gets 30 points in from its virtually game over because we don’t have the attacking ability to bring that back, we still just try and do the defensive stuff better and limit anymore scoring against us. Thirdly it mustn’t be that much fun for the players.

Dew’s got a lot kudos so far this seasons but the fact is we are bottom of the ladder. Time to try and add something different. Back the players in to play a bit more offensively.


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Sun Stormer

Mature Age Recruit
Jul 27, 2018
306
267
Gold Coast
AFL Club
Gold Coast
Definitely not. Carlton have a far better list and Bolton was an awful coach.

You are being reactionary.

If the Suns even think about sacking Dew I wouldn't renew my membership. We have to back him in for 5+ years.

On Pixel 2 XL using BigFooty.com mobile app
He has one more year to get them up the ladder or he'll be on the rack - by then Hodge + Roos type situation should be the option.
 

Sun Stormer

Mature Age Recruit
Jul 27, 2018
306
267
Gold Coast
AFL Club
Gold Coast
Well you're right that Bolton was an awful coach but I think you're overrating the Carlton list a little.

Better, sure.
Far better? Debatable.

There's a lot of good youth on the Gold Coast list that mirrors Carlton's youth.
The dirge in middle-tier age bracket definitely exist for both clubs.

5+ years after a half like that? That's asinine.

Will you be saying the same thing if these types of losses are continuing into next year?

If I was being very generous I'd say Dew gets one more year and if the performances don't improve then the Club has to be proactive.

You can call me reactionary, but your position is that of inaction which is undoubtedly worse.

Standards are important.
Carlton can't have that much better a list - we did beat them at the start of the year!
 

briztoon

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 28, 2015
8,001
7,429
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
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NUFC, Philadelphia 76'ers
Carlton can't have that much better a list - we did beat them at the start of the year!
Sorry, but I'll be using the Brisbane Lions by way of comparison in this discussion.


We’ve had this discussion on the Lions board for a couple of years.

Carlton arguably have the most young talent in the league, but they have almost no one older than Cripps to guide them.

So all their kids play with little guidance on the field, and they had poor coaching off the field.

By comparison the Lions have the third youngest list this year, but our game day best 22 is often more experienced and older than our opposition. Hodge does skew these stats somewhat.


Against GWS on the weekend.
  • Average games played - Greater Western Sydney 94.9 vs. Brisbane 103 (= -8.1 games on average)
  • Average age - Greater Western Sydney 25.2 vs. Brisbane 25.3 (= -0.1 years on average)

Against Carlton (when they beat us after sacking Bolton)

  • Average games played - Carlton 78.5 vs. Brisbane 96.4 (= -17.9 games on average)
  • Average age - Carlton 24.2 vs. Brisbane 25 (= -0.8 years on average)

It's the lack of quality senior players that is hurting Carlton the most. If they had four to six A graders in the 26 to 30 year age bracket, they'd probably be a better than Brisbane.
 

kreglze

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 28, 2011
14,333
11,593
Melbourne
AFL Club
Gold Coast
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Arsenal
IMO Carlton's list is far better than ours. Mckay and Curnow are matured high quality KP talents.

Cripps is a bonafide star and Walsh is getting a lot of his own pill, Murphy isn't as good as he once was, but is a talented mature head through the middle as well. Kreuzer when fit is a high quality ruck who can get around the ground and impact the contest.

Key defense they have a developing one in Weitering who has come into his own in the last 18 months and Jones, who has his brain fades but is reliable enough.

I love our blokes but we are a fair way off the Blues talent levels at the moment.
 

Cochblocked

Premiership Player
Sep 25, 2012
4,374
5,930
Geelong
AFL Club
Gold Coast
IMO Carlton's list is far better than ours. Mckay and Curnow are matured high quality KP talents.

Cripps is a bonafide star and Walsh is getting a lot of his own pill, Murphy isn't as good as he once was, but is a talented mature head through the middle as well. Kreuzer when fit is a high quality ruck who can get around the ground and impact the contest.

Key defense they have a developing one in Weitering who has come into his own in the last 18 months and Jones, who has his brain fades but is reliable enough.

I love our blokes but we are a fair way off the Blues talent levels at the moment.
If they are so good, how come they have finished below us every year for the past few and lost to us last time we played them? The media 'hype' on Carlton is over the top sometimes.
 

kreglze

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 28, 2011
14,333
11,593
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If they are so good, how come they have finished below us every year for the past few and lost to us last time we played them? The media 'hype' on Carlton is over the top sometimes.
Cause while there coach was a good assistant, is an absolute pants senior coach.
 

Camsta

Team Captain
May 12, 2018
426
863
AFL Club
Gold Coast
This whole season is pot-luck - I reckon on any given day, any team can win at the moment

We beat freo
Freo beat GWS
We beat bulldogs
Bulldogs beat pies
We beat Carlton
Carlton beat brisbane
Brisbane beat GWS

Reading too much into form is crazy
 

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Jen2310

Premiership Player
Aug 21, 2018
4,379
5,402
Melbourne
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Gold Coast Suns
This whole season is pot-luck - I reckon on any given day, any team can win at the moment

We beat freo
Freo beat GWS
We beat bulldogs
Bulldogs beat pies
We beat Carlton
Carlton beat brisbane
Brisbane beat GWS

Reading too much into form is crazy
Actually, think you're confusing freo and dogs up.

Pies beat bulldogs but lost to freo. Trust me, I was at both games and neither were pretty.
 

GenYBlue

Seeking #17
May 31, 2010
119
372
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
I reiterate that if we don't give Dew time I am pretty much done. I hate reactionary bulls**t. Let him do his job and back them in.
I need to be honest I was under the impression that this was Dew's second year under the rebuild, but if the rebuild began *this* year I was mistaken and that is quite a different situation.

I will apologise for coming into the discussion lacking some information (it's difficult being both a new fan and being my second club), but know I have the best interests of the the club at heart.

At Carlton we waited until halfway through Bolton's third year and that was a bit too long.
If you're not producing/showing very clear signs of improvement during your third year at the helm baring some kind of severe set-back, it's time to go.

That's why I said if losses like last week continue for the Gold Coast into next year you'd essentially be in the same boat, however I did not realise this was the first year of the rebuild.

I contrasted how the team is currently playing to how Carlton were playing under Bolton to implore change of any kind, not necessarily the sacking of the head coach.

Essentially I'm for high standards & club culture across all parts of the football club, and I was expressing my opinion that the performance against Richmond was more than subpar or average, it was below the standard required.

Regardless I think the brand the Suns are playing needs work, and so too does the player's belief in the system and each other.
They were playing much better in this regard during the start of the season. Intensity, effort, team work and even results for a few matches.

This means Dew has got them to perform well and well under his system, so he needs to sort out what's going on with them now and how to get them team performing at its best once more.
 

SunnerSS

GCSUNSCAST HOST
Sep 3, 2016
1,770
1,949
AFL Club
Gold Coast
I need to be honest I was under the impression that this was Dew's second year under the rebuild, but if the rebuild began *this* year I was mistaken and that is quite a different situation.

I will apologise for coming into the discussion lacking some information (it's difficult being both a new fan and being my second club), but know I have the best interests of the the club at heart.

At Carlton we waited until halfway through Bolton's third year and that was a bit too long.
If you're not producing/showing very clear signs of improvement during your third year at the helm baring some kind of severe set-back, it's time to go.

That's why I said if losses like last week continue for the Gold Coast into next year you'd essentially be in the same boat, however I did not realise this was the first year of the rebuild.

I contrasted how the team is currently playing to how Carlton were playing under Bolton to implore change of any kind, not necessarily the sacking of the head coach.

Essentially I'm for high standards & club culture across all parts of the football club, and I was expressing my opinion that the performance against Richmond was more than subpar or average, it was below the standard required.

Regardless I think the brand the Suns are playing needs work, and so too does the player's belief in the system and each other.
They were playing much better in this regard during the start of the season. Intensity, effort, team work and even results for a few matches.

This means Dew has got them to perform well and well under his system, so he needs to sort out what's going on with them now and how to get them team performing at its best once more.
I suppose it depends what you would classify as the start of a rebuild?
yes this is Dew's 2nd year but he was the 1st piece of the puzzle that Evans put in place after he started cleaning up the club at the end of 2017.
Most suns fans would view our rebuild having started in its full capacity at last year's trade period. So with 1 full preseason undertaken with all the key personal in place i think we are on track.
 

GCStormie

Team Captain
Aug 29, 2017
553
524
Perth
AFL Club
Gold Coast
Other Teams
WCE, Renault F1, Scorchers
I suppose it depends what you would classify as the start of a rebuild?
yes this is Dew's 2nd year but he was the 1st piece of the puzzle that Evans put in place after he started cleaning up the club at the end of 2017.
Most suns fans would view our rebuild having started in its full capacity at last year's trade period. So with 1 full preseason undertaken with all the key personal in place i think we are on track.
Personal Opinion. We've been in full rebuild mode since end of 2016, anytime you have 5 draft picks, including 4 top tens, thats a rebuild in my books. adding Dew/Evans etc were just elements of the already begun rebuild.
 

GenYBlue

Seeking #17
May 31, 2010
119
372
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
Personal Opinion. We've been in full rebuild mode since end of 2016, anytime you have 5 draft picks, including 4 top tens, thats a rebuild in my books. adding Dew/Evans etc were just elements of the already begun rebuild.
The list manager and the list go hand in hand.

How long has Craig Cameron had the job?
 

Camsta

Team Captain
May 12, 2018
426
863
AFL Club
Gold Coast
I suppose it depends what you would classify as the start of a rebuild?
yes this is Dew's 2nd year but he was the 1st piece of the puzzle that Evans put in place after he started cleaning up the club at the end of 2017.
Most suns fans would view our rebuild having started in its full capacity at last year's trade period. So with 1 full preseason undertaken with all the key personal in place i think we are on track.
Spot on - We’re only in the first year of the 2nd phase - phase 1 was sorting the list, coaching staff and balancing the TPP which didn’t happen til the end of last year.

We still have another year (2020) of building the base team before we start a serious tilt at moving up the ladder.

All requires patience and planning.... even though my patience is wearing thin
 

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