Review Round 17, 2016 - Brisbane Lions vs GWS

[13Beast]

We REALLY need a PP. If anything it would throw hope to the fans, to the club and to the players. Hipwood, Keays, Schache, Andrews, Matho - all studs. If the afl flicked us a PP to go right after our first selection (so a #1 and #2, or #2 and #3 all depending if we finish bottom or not), that would be a big help and could give our media dept a chance to whip up a frenzy. Schache and Hipwood have both been huge successes, so there's collateral there to back out drafting and get hyped about two top picks coming in after the draft.

Also, I know he is on a big contract already, but I genuinely believe Rich has good trade value. He'll be a superstar at a club like Geelong, WBD, NM, WCE, Syd or Hawthorn as the icing on the cake and playing on the outside or off half back. He'd be devastating, and the whole league knows he has one of the most deadly kicks in the comp. I'd rather trade out him before Rocky. Rocky puts in a lot more than Rich while Rich can be AWOL for weeks at a time. He should be shopped around a little, at least to put a toe in the water and see what clubs may bite. I genuinely believe he is one of those final piece players that completes a premiership side. Plenty of teams knocking at the door who'd love him on their side and may be willing to part with quite a lot in order to put them in the box seat for a flag.

 

[dlanod]

Schache looked cooked, could barely run after half time, looked like he may have been carrying an injury.

He hit the ground hard at one point and came up hobbling, so it might have been something he picked up during the game.

 

[Milk Steak]

I have real concern over Gardiner. I know he's still fairly young,but he's into his 3rd year now and to me looks way off the pace of the game with his decision making. His skills are pretty average for a player of his size that is too small to play as a lockdown key defender. Intensity is there,but how far that can take him I don't know.

 

[L Dizz]

I have real concern over Gardiner. I know he's still fairly young,but he's into his 3rd year now and to me looks way off the pace of the game with his decision making. His skills are pretty average for a player of his size that is too small to play as a lockdown key defender. Intensity is there,but how far that can take him I don't know.

I personally don't have much of a problem with his disposal. Sure, he's no Sam Mitchell, but providing he doesn't try to bite off more than he can chew, I don't see it being a massive problem. It's definitely an upgrade on Merrett for instance.

As for his defence, I find it really hard to judge any of the defender's ability to defend this year. Whether it be the structure the team is being asked to play, or poor work rate further up the ground, I'm not sure, but they as a whole are being asked to do way too much. There are free opponents (not all opposing forwards) all over the place in our backline.

 

[Back2Back2Back]

Man this would've been an epic mark.

 

[Viceregal]

The problem is I see that as a realistic prediction. We aren't capable of something as big as winning a game. Until we learn to kick, handball, tackle, mark, take up good positions, read the play, run, spoil and challenge, that isn't going to change.

Sadly one could be considered reasonable to assume that professional footballers would, if fact, be already competent in the purely mechanical skills of kicking, handballing, tackling, running and marking. Granted good positioning, play reading, effective challenging and legitimate spoiling are a bit further along the art vs science curve (and things like good reading of the play helps you with where to run, whom to hand ball to etc). Then there is good decision making - which either requires a certain level of instinct/intelligence/training or well developed systems so that your brains 'muscle memory' kicks in and where you put the ball meets up with where a team mate (who is also following said developed system).

Are we trying to put creative heads on blocks of wood or are we trying to build fancy sculptures on walls without a solid foundation? Do they know what they are supposed to do and keep stuffing it up or are they constantly trying to 'feel' their way to a productive decision. When they go into the game - does each player know what the expectations on him are and what his KPIs are for the game? Do they give thought to how their strengths can help the whole team or just play as individuals (eg I block for Rich who gets to deliver the ball into the F50 rather than go for the ball myself etc)?

 

[Haso]

The thing that make me cringe the most out of the match yesterday were Green's chasing efforts. That's not to say that he didn't chase, but more that he was physically inhibited from chasing effectively because of his paunch. I thought it was truly embarrassing that when he ran after his opponents he lagged behind while lumbering like a 200cm ruckman.

 

[Bokonon]

Hi guys
I usually post on the opposition board after a game, but this week is hard. I dont want to be disrespectful or condescending after what was a good win for us. Think it's a simple case of our list having more talent this year. I am mindful of the fact your club has flags in the cabinet and we dont, however.

I respect the stubborn loyalty of any club's supporters who turn up to watch their club play in the cold and rain during the down times. (Less of the cold for you guys I guess)
Look forward to playing you in better times.

 

[SizeMatters]

The thing that make me cringe the most out of the match yesterday were Green's chasing efforts. That's not to say that he didn't chase, but more that he was physically inhibited from chasing effectively because of his paunch. I thought it was truly embarrassing that when he ran after his opponents he lagged behind while lumbering like a 200cm ruckman.

I thought Green cracked in fairly hard in the first quarter but just couldn't even get an effective disposal away. Too slow with ball in hand and was missing targets by 5m... didn't even notice him after half time but admittedly I wasn't really watching the game by then. It doesn't even faze him at all about his lack of conditioning. I remember watching a locker talk or something like that last year and Green had the worst skin folds by a mile. Doesn't help that the whole club treats it as an inside joke while Green sneaks out and devours cookies from Subway in the middle of the night.

 

[SizeMatters]

We REALLY need a PP. If anything it would throw hope to the fans, to the club and to the players. Hipwood, Keays, Schache, Andrews, Matho - all studs. If the afl flicked us a PP to go right after our first selection (so a #1 and #2, or #2 and #3 all depending if we finish bottom or not), that would be a big help and could give our media dept a chance to whip up a frenzy. Schache and Hipwood have both been huge successes, so there's collateral there to back out drafting and get hyped about two top picks coming in after the draft.

Also, I know he is on a big contract already, but I genuinely believe Rich has good trade value. He'll be a superstar at a club like Geelong, WBD, NM, WCE, Syd or Hawthorn as the icing on the cake and playing on the outside or off half back. He'd be devastating, and the whole league knows he has one of the most deadly kicks in the comp. I'd rather trade out him before Rocky. Rocky puts in a lot more than Rich while Rich can be AWOL for weeks at a time. He should be shopped around a little, at least to put a toe in the water and see what clubs may bite. I genuinely believe he is one of those final piece players that completes a premiership side. Plenty of teams knocking at the door who'd love him on their side and may be willing to part with quite a lot in order to put them in the box seat for a flag.

I can't see Rich being a star at all, even if he played at the Giants or Hawks or any other team. He is lazy and has a heart the size of a pea. I miss the young Rich that stood up for himself and got in the face of opposition. I remember in his first year he got flattened by Lewis from the Hawks IIRC and he was gesturing for Lewis to hit him on the chin.

 

[Milk Steak]

The thing that make me cringe the most out of the match yesterday were Green's chasing efforts. That's not to say that he didn't chase, but more that he was physically inhibited from chasing effectively because of his paunch. I thought it was truly embarrassing that when he ran after his opponents he lagged behind while lumbering like a 200cm ruckman.

This. I was watching with my partner yesterday who admittedly doesn't know much about Aussie Rules and she asked me at one point why I was laughing. I in essence said it was because I was watching number 6 (Green) chasing after a Giants player and looking fat and slow as buggery......and he's supposed to be one of our "quick" players.

 

[Ironmonger]

The thing that make me cringe the most out of the match yesterday were Green's chasing efforts. That's not to say that he didn't chase, but more that he was physically inhibited from chasing effectively because of his paunch. I thought it was truly embarrassing that when he ran after his opponents he lagged behind while lumbering like a 200cm ruckman.

Yeah, there were a couple of those moments. I think one might have involved Josh Kelly (or Williams maybe?) clearing from half back, and he had his head up looking around for options, barely working at all, while in shot behind him Green was clearly giving everything he could but just falling further behind.

There's not much point in a small forward who can't even make the opposition think about him, let alone lay a tackle.

But in Green's defence, one of the rare highlights of the second half was when he corralled Patfull and forced the turnover that ultimately set up Bewick's goal. He can defend, he just can't catch anyone who gets in front of him.

 

[spotthedog1]

Best in Q1 - Zorko, Basti, Schache, Rockliffe, Hanley, Mayes

Best in Q2-4 - Zorko.

 

[James North]

The thing that make me cringe the most out of the match yesterday were Green's chasing efforts. That's not to say that he didn't chase, but more that he was physically inhibited from chasing effectively because of his paunch. I thought it was truly embarrassing that when he ran after his opponents he lagged behind while lumbering like a 200cm ruckman.

Honestly - I noticed this (not the paunch, but the defensive running) by most of our midfield all day.

In transition we'd let them get out to the wing and then jog down the ground watching the ball be accurately kicked from player to player until ultimately - BAM. A mark to one of the talls.

There are some who run their hardest all day and generally it's the young guys trying to prove themselves/meet KPIs.

Next time I'm at a game I'll film it on the phone because it's quite telling, especially when compared to the defensive running of the opposition.

 

[Last of the Roys]

I have real concern over Gardiner. I know he's still fairly young,but he's into his 3rd year now and to me looks way off the pace of the game with his decision making. His skills are pretty average for a player of his size that is too small to play as a lockdown key defender. Intensity is there,but how far that can take him I don't know.

Yeah it is a bit of a concern isn't it?

On the one hand he is playing in a defence that is getting absolutely swamped every week. Last night GWS had a massive 77 inside 50's. Back when Merrett and Patfull were in the side and playing well a couple of years ago, Gardiner looked like he could hold his own.

On the other hand, it is definitely very noticeable that he doesn't have the fitness to keep up with most forwards. Lobe running away from him as he almost looked like he was going to die of exhaustion yesterday was incredibly embarrassing. His skills are woeful and his decision making somewhat questionable. That said he does give his all - but it is still not clear to me whether that is good enough to making him a long-term prospect at the senior level.

 

[Big Sauce 21]

Just saw footage of Ryan Lester jogging to the goal square following Rory Lobb. He let him run straight past him and kick a goal. Llyod and Barrett had it up on there afl.com show.

 

[Last of the Roys]

Overall the game was like far too many this year. Not enough effort / intensity, woeful skills, and not a lot to give cause for hope.

It is virtually impossible to believe that we have the right onfield structures in place to allow us to be competitive within games. Unfortunately it seems most players feel the same way and don't provide the level of intensity required for enough of the time to allow us to compete in any case.

One thing that really did annoy me though was just another huge run by our opponents that led to no response from our coaches. We had basically the youngest / least experienced side for the year, and an incredibly young defence. Yet we allow 10 goals 1 to be scored in a quarter without putting any extras down back or at the very least pushing back. To me that is just mind blowing.

I don't understand whatsoever how anyone can argue that is somehow teaching our players how to play the 'right' way. Instead it just seems like a self-destructive approach. The commentators couldn't believe it at times either - I think Brad Johnson commentated we still had a 5 forward line structure with none of them pushing up the ground to help out.

We may have made some slight moves in the 3rd quarter but they were barely noticeable. It was just a godsend that the rain came when it did because it allowed us to congest the game, otherwise we were heading for what looked like a 120+ point loss.

 

[James North]

McStay out for season with broken ankle.

I definitely heard a cracking noise when he injured himself - some around me thought Achilles but there you go.

 

[ColdWarWarrior]

The club is in crisis.

The club will not be able to trade its way out of its current on and off field woes, yesterdays crowd 10K proves that and those folks are not coming back anytime soon. On the corporate side the fact that we can only attract sponsors like Camberdown Milk and National Storage as major sponsors, in any other team these would be second tier sponsors that you would only see on the homepage footer. The days of Coca Cola, AAPT and BOQ are over, they will not come back until they see some on field success.

What needs to be done?

It requires intervention by the AFL, nothing less.

The clubs debt needs to be paid off, if the AFL can pay Karmichael Hunt and Israel Falloau a combined total of $12 million then they can pay out Brisbanes debt.

The Lions need to be given 2 years of priority 1st and 2nd round draft picks.

The retention allowance needs to be reinstated, this is the only way the club will be able to sign quality A grade talent given we have to pay overs to keep them.

The club can tinker with things all they like, not much will change. It requires intervention by the AFL.

The only question is how much do the AFL value the Lions? IMO not a lot, its just another game that TV tights can be sold for and thats about it.

 

[ColdWarWarrior]

I definitely heard a cracking noise when he injured himself - some around me thought Achilles but there you go.

Wouldn't have been hard, you could have heard a pin drop out there yesterday given the paltry crowd.

 

[SizeMatters]

McStay out for season with broken ankle.

I definitely heard a cracking noise when he injured himself - some around me thought Achilles but there you go.

fuuuuuark. Hopefully he can spend as much time as he can with Beams so he can learn some of the basics of being a professional footballer. Huge upside but from what I've heard and from what you can clearly see he lacks professionalism.

 

[davemc_lions]

Did anyone else hear when they asked why don't you go get someone like Heath Shaw, Leppa said our cap almost full
WHAT THE....
We paying overs for everyone..
Yes you notice no one really directs our forward and backline too much on field.
I was hoping we get in a experienced backman and someone older forward. (Amazingly we had a older guy last year called Adcock we culled )

 

[ColdWarWarrior]

Walker was recruited to direct the forward line and keep the heat of Schache and the other young blokes, he turned out to be another clunker hence Schache taking the No1 defender every week. Another blow for Leppa who was counting on these more experienced players to at least break even.

 

[blynd_freddie]

Did anyone else hear when they asked why don't you go get someone like Heath Shaw, Leppa said our cap almost full
WHAT THE....
We paying overs for everyone..
Yes you notice no one really directs our forward and backline too much on field.
I was hoping we get in a experienced backman and someone older forward. (Amazingly we had a older guy last year called Adcock we culled )

My understanding was HE knocked back a one year contract?

 

[JTW3553]

Just saw footage of Ryan Lester jogging to the goal square following Rory Lobb. He let him run straight past him and kick a goal. Llyod and Barrett had it up on there afl.com show.

Saw that as well. Pathetic effort.