Autopsy Round 17, 2020: St.Kilda v West Coast

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Diehard Saint

Brownlow Medallist
Jan 17, 2016
10,030
33,602
Melbourne
AFL Club
St Kilda
i guess we wont ever know ... im content with Ratten and happy with his first season but i was very strongly in the Harvey camp as coach and i feel he would have been a great coach for us ...
What we do know is that Ratts has taken us from 14th to wherever we eventually land up off the back of a season like no other -

*Not allowed to have full team training sessions while introducing a new game plan and 7 new players (incl King and Bytel)
*playing pretty much the entire season without our most experienced mid
*winning away games - something we’re notoriously bad at - including back
to back games in Adelaide

Let’s see what he can do in a normal year.
I still think coming out of a successful system, and probably helping to bring people like Rath into the club, gives us more than Harves could right now.
 
Last edited:

Diehard Saint

Brownlow Medallist
Jan 17, 2016
10,030
33,602
Melbourne
AFL Club
St Kilda
My mates (Richmond, Geelong and Collingwood supporters mostly) seem to rate our season higher than I do. They probably expected us to be bottom 4 again though
I think most impartial external commentators have said/ are saying that.

We are so emotionally attached, and so success-starved, that our expectations are probably not that realistic.
 

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Cooksen

Hall of Famer
Jun 18, 2011
33,877
52,727
Flying On A Prawn
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Man Utd, NE Pats
What we do know is that Ratts has taken us from 14th to wherever we eventually land up off the back of a season like no other -

*Not allowed to have full team training sessions while introducing a new plan and 7 new players (incl King and Bytel)
*playing pretty much the entire season without our most experienced mid
*winning away games - something we’re notoriously bad at - including back
to back games in Adelaide

Let’s see what he can do in a normal year.
I still think coming out of a successful system, and probably helping to bring people like Rath into the club, gives us more than Harves could right now.
We have done well this season but it is frustrating that we could be doing better which is understandable.

But we are getting rid of the stench of the Watters and Richo years of battling, we are playing games on our terms and trying to attack.

This year will be great for us in the long run
 

Veer Right

All Australian
May 11, 2019
771
1,347
AFL Club
St Kilda
Point 1. I am disgusted but the blood letting and melting that happened after this match. To accuse players of not trying or picking out individual players is just disgraceful behaviour and you are all so brave behind a keyboard hang your heads and take a good hard look at yourself. Bet you the players review will be harder on themselves than your review on your conduct after the match will be. Just Grow up.

Never ever thought that I would be ashamed to be a Saints supporter but I was last night.....and not from the players but by some of your revolting comments and emotive postings.

Point 2. Fact we are such a better side than last year by both ladder position and percentage tell us that. What you guys expected us to go from 14th to Grand Final contenders. fu****g grow up.

Point 3.
Ratts has added so much to the vibe of the team and the club and he is what... not a year into coaching this club with effectively about 10 players at the club less than 3 years and in effect many experiencing the first year playing together. It is an outstanding effort by all concerned.

Point 4. Player Comments
Yes I reckon Carlisle would have made a difference...I do not know why he is not playing maybe there is a no dickhead policy being enforced and we all know Jake and love him as we do can be a dickhead and maybe no selection is the result.

Reckon he is gone..because he should be playing.
Geary was not the reason we lost last night.
Usual suspects Kent and Hind and to an extent Long between them did not get 10 touches for a game. Not good enough. We need to replace them in the line up with players with a better and consistent output.
Membrey was fantastic Battle hard at it.
Reckon Billings looks injured/lame just not as polished as usual...been a few weeks of deteriorating performance trading him is not the answer.
People slagging Paddy Ryder earlier in the year should apologise to all that had to read their dross. He had played a great last few weeks. Also last week posters were bagging Clark he almost won us the game in the second half..you guys that bag our players after one game learn to shut the f**K up.

Point 5.WCE
There is a reason they beat us and it has nothing to do with heart or that they worked out our game plan.

It is called experience and high level of performance over a long period of time with their stars playing with each other or in the AFL system for a number of years.

Their best players were simply better than our best players and they just found a way to win along with some ordinary umpiring in the final minutes.
Kelly was unstoppable so posters here say put Steele on him and thus cut off our main performing mid all year and reduce his output reducing our chance of winning the game. Some of the work that he and NicNat did around the ball was truly elite.
Ross tried and failed to hold Kelly. He is not one of our top 4 on ballers anymore. But drop him, he did kick the goal to put us ahead. We also won the clearance count inside 50s tackles uncontested footy so that's the sign of a strong onball effort.

Nor is Sinclair love him and he is showing great signs with his run through the centre but he will always be a solid B grade. He is in our best 22 at the back end.
Darling schooled Coff on playing CHB. Battle may have been a better choice...next time maybe.
Patton was beaten by Jones who is a human highlight reel all night.
They flooded the backline and we just could not quite get through quick enough...not through a lack of trying or effort. That will be something to work on next year...also another preseason for Winx will only help his ground ball work is mouth watering.

Final point
We need another mobile marking forward aka Toby Greene or DeGoey.
Maybe that is wherevBillings finishes up and then recruiting Williams or Caldwell for a wing makes sense.
We also need an elite on baller unfortunately they do not grow on trees. If Clark can emerge like Steele has next season then that's a start. Would help improve Jones as well.

We are a good side only getting better as our best players are young and still developing our coach is learning how to coach this particular playing group and the new recruits are learning how each other plays.

We are not there yet but we are on the march but eatting our own dies not cut it. We can all see it happening it is like watching a young Rooey Lenny Dal BJ et al and Plugger Loewe Winmar Harvs and Burkey come through together.

Let's have passion and support for our team not anger and derision.

Go Saints
We lost because of lack of leadership AGAIN. Yes Geary is part of the problem as he is only getting a game because of the (c) next to his name but it's just not him, all our leadership group are shizen and none can be counted on to steady the ship or help us get over the line. Not one of them. Who stood up last night when needed? Old man Ryder, Steele and Clark and normally you would add Marshall but he wasn't played in the right position last night. (back line excluded who did extremely well no thanks to Ratten)

Go on accept mediocrity and defend Geary and Billings while pumping Membreys ordinary game up. Doesn't make it true.
 

robjude

Debutant
May 27, 2010
62
122
AFL Club
St Kilda
Football provides me with no joy. A decade of this crap & I am done. I am finished following this club. Only so much you can take. No more BF, no more supporting an organisation that only leaves me disappointed.
Cheerio then, off you go.
Try 5 decades of following them for ZERO premiership success. Got to stick fat
 

NarklesHelmet

Premiership Player
Sep 17, 2010
4,789
16,452
AFL Club
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Other Teams
Manchester City, AIK, Raiders
It shouldn’t be, but I’m a bit surprised how many of you are going off the deep end after that loss: it feels extreme, even for this board.

One thing that stuck with me from the pre-match build-up was how Adam Simpson was adamant that, while injuries would hurt their side, they were a “system-based” team that would get through it.

He proved to be spot-on. It’s what wins games in this league normally.
Add COVID and shorter quarters and limited training into the equation and it’s winning even more in 2020.

What frustrates me in reading these comments is that so many of the over-the-top ones are coming from the same people that (rightly in my opinion) were getting so frustrated with Richo and our lack of system and composure last year.

I ask these people, why are you surprised that, when under extreme pressure, a lot of our senior players revert to what they learned from a coach for a number of years, i.e bang the ball on the boot and bomb it long. It makes complete sense. It also makes sense that the Eagles, when they are under pressure, revert to their system that has been instilled in them for many years under Simpson.

In relation to the above, we simply CANNOT expect that Ratts and co. can turn around our system so quickly. It will take time. While COVID has helped us in some ways, training restrictions haven’t helped in others. It’s going to take another couple of pre-seasons until we really bed down our game plan and sort the wheat from the chaff with our list.

Whatever way you look at it, 2020 has been an impressive first step for Ratts and co. To think our defense has basically Dougal having played over 50 games and that’s it.... scope for the future is enormous.

But, for fu**s sake, a loss against a top team in the first year of a new regime is NOT the time for us all to think the sky is falling.

But the really promising thing is that, on top of our players gaining in game experience every year they play, they will be getting more time to learn our system with each pre-season, learn synergy with each other and plan B’s. It’s a matter of time and the journey back to the Grand Final will be part of the fun.

It’s an incredibly exciting time to be following our young club. This is only the beginning, and to butcher a quote from that old Deborah Conway song, many of you have already gone and lost your minds after a few close losses. Pull your heads in and realize that we are on the right path finally.
 

malevu

All Australian
Nov 1, 2013
853
3,906
Animal Enclosure
AFL Club
St Kilda
One thing I've learnt over the journey is to never go on the Autopsy thread the same day as we lose, especially if it's a night game. It's much better to check it out the next day when comments are more lucid and less personal. Unfortunately, I forgot my own rule last night and ventured into the thread. All the usual vitriol and snide remarks from the usual suspects. I quickly left, shaking my head at the same old comments by some. It's good to see that with a night's sleep under our belts that the thread is largely back on point.

Just a few random comments from me -

To think we are only one measly win from tying up a final's berth it's hard to not look back on what might have been. Granted that no team wins all their close games but good teams win more than they lose. Deep in the last quarter we've had the chance to win in all five close games that we've ultimately lost. It's not like we would've stolen the points in any if we had got up. A win in any one of those games would have us sitting pretty today. Any one of five. Think about that. I won't even start thinking about what if we had got the job done in more than one of those. It's not like we aren't good enough as some have suggested. For some reason we just seem to lack the system/polish to get over the line consistently in close finishes.

A shout out to Paddy Ryder. I thought he was a wasted pick up but he's proven me wrong. He's actually one of the in form rucks in the comp and he's real heart and soul player. He always lifts when the going gets tough and a few of his teammates should take a leaf out of his book, particularly late in the game. I hope we get another couple of years out of him. I didn't think I would be saying that at the start of the year.

I've posted about Brad Hill before. I said he's like the icing on an already well made cake, not the main ingredient. I could imagine him tearing it up at Geelong or Richmond. But with us I think what you see is pretty much what we are going to get from Hill. If we improve as a team so will his output but he won't necessarily be the cause of our improvement. I'd actually prefer a fit Hannebery over him even though they are totally different players.

I must admit post game after Hill's couple of last quarter fiascos I couldn't help thinking about Acres. He was supposed to be the steak knives in the deal that landed Hill. Right now their respective output and influence on their teams isn't much different.

Finally a thought on King/Membrey. In no way is this a knock on Ming who I think has done a great job in his first full season and hopefully he is going to be the player we all crave him to be. However, it seems like the weight of the supporter's expectations is taking a toll on him. He seems down on confidence and he's definitely suffered from being the main go-to man every week, especially given our disposal.

I can't help thinking how we would've fared if Membrey had played the whole season as our FF like he has in the last few seasons and if the majority of our forward entries had been directed to him on the lead. Membrey has always been good for 2-3 big games each year where he kicks a bag. Nearly all of them result in a win. Given our overall team improvement if that had a stayed true to form who knows what games that might have occurred in. Maybe in a couple of the tight ones we lost. Again, this is a not a knock on King but he hasn't delivered that knock out blow in any game yet. In hindsight maybe we should've eased him into it this year and let him roam around the ground more and pick up some easy kicks. He's certainly agile enough. One thing for sure Membrey's output would've been significantly greater.

We can beat GWS but it's going to be tough. If we do we will definitely have earned it regardless of what some fools say. But FFS play Jake if he's fit !

Finally, props to Spaceman for an earlier post. Some pages back he commented about the sliding doors impact on a poster's assessment of our performance. Go read it if you haven't. I couldn't agree more. It seems the good Doctor is more that just a Photoshop guru.
 

plugger66

Brownlow Medallist
Jan 10, 2011
25,761
42,252
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Ormond AFC
It shouldn’t be, but I’m a bit surprised how many of you are going off the deep end after that loss: it feels extreme, even for this board.

One thing that stuck with me from the pre-match build-up was how Adam Simpson was adamant that, while injuries would hurt their side, they were a “system-based” team that would get through it.

He proved to be spot-on. It’s what wins games in this league normally.
Add COVID and shorter quarters and limited training into the equation and it’s winning even more in 2020.

What frustrates me in reading these comments is that so many of the over-the-top ones are coming from the same people that (rightly in my opinion) were getting so frustrated with Richo and our lack of system and composure last year.

I ask these people, why are you surprised that, when under extreme pressure, a lot of our senior players revert to what they learned from a coach for a number of years, i.e bang the ball on the boot and bomb it long. It makes complete sense. It also makes sense that the Eagles, when they are under pressure, revert to their system that has been instilled in them for many years under Simpson.

In relation to the above, we simply CANNOT expect that Ratts and co. can turn around our system so quickly. It will take time. While COVID has helped us in some ways, training restrictions haven’t helped in others. It’s going to take another couple of pre-seasons until we really bed down our game plan and sort the wheat from the chaff with our list.

Whatever way you look at it, 2020 has been an impressive first step for Ratts and co. To think our defense has basically Dougal having played over 50 games and that’s it.... scope for the future is enormous.

But, for fu**s sake, a loss against a top team in the first year of a new regime is NOT the time for us all to think the sky is falling.

But the really promising thing is that, on top of our players gaining in game experience every year they play, they will be getting more time to learn our system with each pre-season, learn synergy with each other and plan B’s. It’s a matter of time and the journey back to the Grand Final will be part of the fun.

It’s an incredibly exciting time to be following our young club. This is only the beginning, and to butcher a quote from that old Deborah Conway song, many of you have already gone and lost your minds after a few close losses. Pull your heads in and realize that we are on the right path finally.
Sorry.
 

st_trav_ofWA

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 17, 2015
5,387
14,467
AFL Club
St Kilda
The year should end with a solid pass. But let's not kid ourselves - we are as far off the pace of the top 4 as are Roos, GC, Dees, Swans. It is a big gap in quality and we shouldn't be thinking that improvement is going to be linear. We have some serious problems with our list.
the thing with the top four this year is Brisbane are the only team that are what you would call a young team... that gap is big at the moment but i feel that the gap may be closing quick ... we have seen in two years our team go from reliance on guys like Stuv and Bruce to power us home to get a win against the lower clubs to now having a far more even balance of players .. we still need a couple to take that next step up to really close that gap but heading into 2021 im really thinking we might be building something here ...
if 2021 sees a return to footy at Marvel , with the strides made with guys like Coff and Hunter , the return of Gresh and Hill spending another off season finding his place in the team and King another preseason under his belt ... i dunno i think we will find that gap closing quick .. i mean look at Bris they closed the gap super quick with some big player improvments so lets see
 

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gringo2011

Hall of Famer
Nov 12, 2011
31,931
76,038
Melbourne
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It shouldn’t be, but I’m a bit surprised how many of you are going off the deep end after that loss: it feels extreme, even for this board.

One thing that stuck was me from the pre-match build-up was how Adam Simpson was adamant that, while injuries would hurt their side, they were a “system-based” team that would get through it.

He proved to be spot-on. It’s what wins games in this league normally.
Add COVID and shorter quarters and limited training into the equation and it’s winning even more in 2020.

What frustrates me in reading these comments is that so many of the over-the-top ones are coming from the same people that (rightly in my opinion) were getting so frustrated with Richo and our lack of system and composure last year.

I ask these people, why are you surprised that, when under extreme pressure, a lot of our senior players revert to what they learned from a coach for a number of years, i.e bang the ball on the boot and bomb it long. It makes complete sense. It also makes sense that the Eagles, when they are under pressure, revert to their system that has been instilled in them for many years under Simpson.

In relation to the above, we simply CANNOT expect that Ratts and co. can turn around our system so quickly. It will take time. While COVID has helped us in some ways, training restrictions haven’t helped in others. It’s going to take another couple of pre-seasons until we really bed down our game plan and sort the wheat from the chaff with our list.

Whatever way you look at it, 2020 has been an impressive first step for Ratts and co. To think our defense has basically Dougal having played over 50 games and that’s it.... scope for the future is enormous.

But, for fu**s sake, a loss against a top team in the first year of a new regime is NOT the time for us all to think the sky is falling.

But the really promising thing is that, on top of our players gaining in game experience every year they play, they will be getting more time to learn our system with each pre-season, learn synergy with each other and plan B’s. It’s a matter of time and the journey back to the Grand Final will be part of the fun.

It’s an incredibly exciting time to be following our young club. This is only the beginning, and to butcher a quote from that old Deborah Conway song, many of you have already gone and lost your minds after a few close losses. Pull your heads in and realize that we are on the right path finally.

I can rationally sit back and think like you but the frustration of waiting for so long has sent me a bit troppo. I flip flop between optimism and despair by the hour. It's almost worse when you know how close we got to playing finals. If we'd sat just outside the 8 for the whole season I think it would be easy to digest. The kids are looking much better than the established talent that's for sure. We definitely have a bunch of players that look worth persisting with finally too.
 

plugger66

Brownlow Medallist
Jan 10, 2011
25,761
42,252
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Ormond AFC
the thing with the top four this year is Brisbane are the only team that are what you would call a young team... that gap is big at the moment but i feel that the gap may be closing quick ... we have seen in two years our team go from reliance on guys like Stuv and Bruce to power us home to get a win against the lower clubs to now having a far more even balance of players .. we still need a couple to take that next step up to really close that gap but heading into 2021 im really thinking we might be building something here ...
if 2021 sees a return to footy at Marvel , with the strides made with guys like Coff and Hunter , the return of Gresh and Hill spending another off season finding his place in the team and King another preseason under his belt ... i dunno i think we will find that gap closing quick .. i mean look at Bris they closed the gap super quick with some big player improvments so lets see
Sides who lose close games usually improve quickly the next year. A lot of luck comes into less than a goal a game losses or wins. Luck usually evens itself out.
 

plugger66

Brownlow Medallist
Jan 10, 2011
25,761
42,252
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Ormond AFC
I can rationally sit back and think like you but the frustration of waiting for so long has sent me a bit troppo. I flip flop between optimism and despair by the hour. It's almost worse when you know how close we got to playing finals. If we'd sat just outside the 8 for the whole season I think it would be easy to digest. The kids are looking much better than the established talent that's for sure. We definitely have a bunch of players that look worth persisting with finally too.
We got to playing finals? Do you have a time machine?
 

Cooksen

Hall of Famer
Jun 18, 2011
33,877
52,727
Flying On A Prawn
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Man Utd, NE Pats
It shouldn’t be, but I’m a bit surprised how many of you are going off the deep end after that loss: it feels extreme, even for this board.

One thing that stuck with me from the pre-match build-up was how Adam Simpson was adamant that, while injuries would hurt their side, they were a “system-based” team that would get through it.

He proved to be spot-on. It’s what wins games in this league normally.
Add COVID and shorter quarters and limited training into the equation and it’s winning even more in 2020.

What frustrates me in reading these comments is that so many of the over-the-top ones are coming from the same people that (rightly in my opinion) were getting so frustrated with Richo and our lack of system and composure last year.

I ask these people, why are you surprised that, when under extreme pressure, a lot of our senior players revert to what they learned from a coach for a number of years, i.e bang the ball on the boot and bomb it long. It makes complete sense. It also makes sense that the Eagles, when they are under pressure, revert to their system that has been instilled in them for many years under Simpson.

In relation to the above, we simply CANNOT expect that Ratts and co. can turn around our system so quickly. It will take time. While COVID has helped us in some ways, training restrictions haven’t helped in others. It’s going to take another couple of pre-seasons until we really bed down our game plan and sort the wheat from the chaff with our list.

Whatever way you look at it, 2020 has been an impressive first step for Ratts and co. To think our defense has basically Dougal having played over 50 games and that’s it.... scope for the future is enormous.

But, for fu**s sake, a loss against a top team in the first year of a new regime is NOT the time for us all to think the sky is falling.

But the really promising thing is that, on top of our players gaining in game experience every year they play, they will be getting more time to learn our system with each pre-season, learn synergy with each other and plan B’s. It’s a matter of time and the journey back to the Grand Final will be part of the fun.

It’s an incredibly exciting time to be following our young club. This is only the beginning, and to butcher a quote from that old Deborah Conway song, many of you have already gone and lost your minds after a few close losses. Pull your heads in and realize that we are on the right path finally.
Give this team 50 more games to develop and we will see magical things.
 

NarklesHelmet

Premiership Player
Sep 17, 2010
4,789
16,452
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Manchester City, AIK, Raiders
I can rationally sit back and think like you but the frustration of waiting for so long has sent me a bit troppo. I flip flop between optimism and despair by the hour. It's almost worse when you know how close we got to playing finals. If we'd sat just outside the 8 for the whole season I think it would be easy to digest. The kids are looking much better than the established talent that's for sure. We definitely have a bunch of players that look worth persisting with finally too.
Don’t get me wrong, the losses hurt me like a mofo.... can hardly sleep after them.

But the thing is, the players are having an absolute crack out there and giving 100% - that’s half the battle won right there. They just don’t have the tools to go any further either through coaching/system or games played.

The above is coming though, nothing surer. It will take some more time though, nothing surer.
 

L_W_P

Premium Gold
Sep 23, 2009
9,983
14,723
SE Suburbs
AFL Club
St Kilda
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New Orleans Saints, Boston Celtics
It shouldn’t be, but I’m a bit surprised how many of you are going off the deep end after that loss: it feels extreme, even for this board.
It's a vent of frustration more than genuine belief that the whole club is rotten.

We had a game that we should have won. That, if we are serious about taking the step up in competition, should have been put away. Looking at that angle it was a really disappointing loss.

Having reflected a little more though that view also fails to take into account the 4-5 other steps this team has taken in 2020.

- Gresham and Clark are looking like they will carry our midfield well into the future.

- Coffield is developing into Goddard 2.0

- Steele and Marshall are stepping up as leaders.

- Butler and King are providing some spark and excitement up forward.

- Howard is the FB we have needed for a long time.

There is a heap to love about what we have done in 2020. The expectations have just gone up a notch or two higher than what the team can realistically produce.

Give the Eagles Yeo, Sheed and Shuey and they probably smash us. But at the same time, give us Hannebery, Gresham, Dunstan and Carlisle and we are right back in it with a team that many had as flag faves coming into the season.

We are right up to our eyeballs in Caldwell. I tihnk that's as done a deal as we can possible get right now.

Not out of the question we finish top 4-6 next year and push hard into the finals.






TL;DR - The improvement is coming, we just have to reset ourselves and take a breath.
 

kernelT

Premiership Player
Aug 15, 2010
4,826
14,895
AFL Club
St Kilda
But the thing is, the players are having an absolute crack out there and giving 100% - that’s half the battle won right there. They just don’t have the tools to go any further either through coaching/system or games played.
I feel like you could pretty much say the exact same thing for the richo years…

West Coast were missing 8-9 first choice players and 3/4 of their midfield and we couldn't capitalize, it feels like for all the steps forward we have taken, the loss last night and losses to north, freo & melb have meant we are treading water overall.

I don't see any amazing systems being implemented, for the past 5-6 weeks we've looked as bad as when richo was coaching… long kicks on top of Kings head. The only difference is a slightly better list.

Selecting only one key defender was unfathomable.

I can totally understand why people are despondent.
 

BrutThough

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 2, 2010
9,011
33,531
AFL Club
St Kilda
I feel like you could pretty much say the exact same thing for the richo years…

West Coast were missing 8-9 first choice players and 3/4 of their midfield and we couldn't capitalize, it feels like for all the steps forward we have taken, the loss last night and losses to north, freo & melb have meant we are treading water overall.

I don't see any amazing systems being implemented, for the past 5-6 weeks we've looked as bad as when richo was coaching… long kicks on top of Kings head. The only difference is a slightly better list.

Selecting only one key defender was unfathomable.

I can totally understand why people are despondent.
they were missing 5 first choice players, not 9
 

gringo2011

Hall of Famer
Nov 12, 2011
31,931
76,038
Melbourne
AFL Club
St Kilda
Don’t get me wrong, the losses hurt me like a mofo.... can hardly sleep after them.

But the thing is, the players are having an absolute crack out there and giving 100% - that’s half the battle won right there. They just don’t have the tools to go any further either through coaching/system or games played.

The above is coming though, nothing surer. It will take some more time though, nothing surer.

Yeah I think that's what was particularly depressing, seeing their B team rolling us even when we were trying our arses off. It wasn't listless, it was a genuine crack. We just ran out of gears. I almost hate the perspective games the most. That Geelong game really knocked the wind out of my sails. I was dreaming premierships up until then.
 

gringo2011

Hall of Famer
Nov 12, 2011
31,931
76,038
Melbourne
AFL Club
St Kilda
I feel like you could pretty much say the exact same thing for the richo years…

West Coast were missing 8-9 first choice players and 3/4 of their midfield and we couldn't capitalize, it feels like for all the steps forward we have taken, the loss last night and losses to north, freo & melb have meant we are treading water overall.

I don't see any amazing systems being implemented, for the past 5-6 weeks we've looked as bad as when richo was coaching… long kicks on top of Kings head. The only difference is a slightly better list.

Selecting only one key defender was unfathomable.

I can totally understand why people are despondent.

I don't think we have made incredible progress compared to under Richo, he was on track for finals last year until injury set in. What it did give us though was a lot of games into players who were probably considered developing or back up.

Richo would have been trying to hold his job and his incentive to remain vaguely competitive would have over ridded development. The one thing about Ratts is I still think he's looking big picture not for a short term surge. I still feel we have the right guy in charge.

It seems like the players are expected to work it out for themselves and implement it. Perhaps that's a Clarko model, let the players run reviews and come up with planning. Ross said that slowing the game down against the Hawks came from the playing group not the coaches.
 

plugger66

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Jan 10, 2011
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I feel like you could pretty much say the exact same thing for the richo years…

West Coast were missing 8-9 first choice players and 3/4 of their midfield and we couldn't capitalize, it feels like for all the steps forward we have taken, the loss last night and losses to north, freo & melb have meant we are treading water overall.

I don't see any amazing systems being implemented, for the past 5-6 weeks we've looked as bad as when richo was coaching… long kicks on top of Kings head. The only difference is a slightly better list.

Selecting only one key defender was unfathomable.

I can totally understand why people are despondent.
A season is 17 games. After 16 we will be 6th or 7th. How is it treading water especially as last year our percentage was 83. This year it’s 111.
 

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