Review Round 17, 2020 - Sydney vs. Brisbane Lions

[3KZ is Football]

McInerny is improving in leaps and bounds every week.

Doing things that only really good players do when a lot of people still have him tagged as a slug.

Where did that 80m torp come from ? Plus his chase. His smarts around the contest. Linking up in scoring chains.

If you look at where he's come from when he started not that long ago it's quite conceivable he could ultimately become the best big man in the game. I'm not kidding.

How clean were his hands when he dished off the goal to Charlie! Then there was his ruck work when he smashed the ball a mile forward and put it down Bailey’s throat that ultimately led to a goal. Gems.

 

[Caiphus]

Oscar's added strings to his bow. He's better at ground level than he has any right to be at his height. The last two years I just thought he had desire and was a nuisance at ground level but was a bit uncomfortable with the extra size that he had put on in the professional system. When he was a tall skinny ruck plucked out of the VFL it was his agility that was supposed to have given him a point of difference and we're just starting to see that now. He's getting better at the ruck craft and in my opinion he's been the best ruckman in the comp to park in the goal square, since his senior debut, because he will take the grab and more often than not drop it the mile to his boot and still hit it cleanly. He's got a solid ceiling as a primary ruckman and he's showing that he can influence contests all over the ground - in the air AND on the deck. He's definitely a top 10 ruck in the comp at the moment in my opinion, he may never be a top three or four ruck, but Stef hasn't ever really been that either.

To be honest, I don't think I would ever want a ruck who was worth $1m plus a season (unless inflation blows out of course and I'm suddenly earning $400k/year), because they don't really offer the value in the salary cap to where it could be spent elsewhere.

 

[bungalow_bill]

Very harsh assessment IMO. He's predominantly played as a high forward, marking/contesting on the wings. He hasn't been a focal point for marks inside 50 compared to others either, so judging him on his goal tally is an unfair metric.

It's also worth noting that KPF goals are down in a big way in 2020. You needn't look further than guys like J. Cameron, Brown and even Hipwood as an example of KPF struggling.

A topic for another thread, but I wonder how much of this is due to shorter quarters meaning less red time goals for KPF who have worked over their opponent?

Some will always judge McStay on how many goals he kicks when this is not really his role in the team. Goals are nice but more of a bonus.

 

[Dylan12]

We’ve had 35 players this year which is the same as last year.

Apologies for being pedantic, but we've used 36 players this year, after 35 last year.

 

[marooned]

Been a big weekend up here but thoughts from the game live. The swans worked harder for the majority of the game. Fatigue played a part. They regularly had the overlap on the fat side.It was a tough slog more contact than a yr 1 classroom. Lachie’s attention was extreme not even facing the ball a lot of the time with nothing called. Kiddy’s goal lifted us and we stepped up intensity to our best level of the night. I was behind Eric for his extraordinary goal had McCartin for pace and the crowd went wild. Beaten in the contest in difficult conditions most of the night but our class got us through. Noah did an outstanding job on Papley off the ball. Haven’t watched the replay but standouts were Richy, McStay and Jarred Lyons

 

[3KZ is Football]

AFL Tables - Brisbane Lions - 2020 Game by Game Player Stats

afltables.com

(Last weekends stats are not included, but Oscar had 4 clearances and made ground on Zorko, who had 3)

Oscar is currently ranked FOURTH at the club this season for CLEARANCES, behind Neale, Lyons and Zorko. He gives us enormous drive all over the park, yet we still have people on our board saying he doesn’t do enough around the ground. These people are seriously demonstrating their complete lack of understanding of our side and the game. Then again, the “Oscar doesn’t do enough around the ground” posters are by and large the same people who said Ryan Lester wasn’t up to AFL standard. These people specialise in proving how little they know.

 

[marooned]

Forgot to add the big O chase of Allir was just pure heart. Just brilliant

 

[jackess]

AFL Tables - Brisbane Lions - 2020 Game by Game Player Stats

afltables.com

(Last weekends stats are not included, but Oscar had 4 clearances and made ground on Zorko, who had 3)

Oscar is currently ranked FOURTH at the club this season for CLEARANCES, behind Neale, Lyons and Zorko. He gives us enormous drive all over the park, yet we still have people on our board saying he doesn’t do enough around the ground. These people are seriously demonstrating their complete lack of understanding of our side and the game. Then again, the “Oscar doesn’t do enough around the ground” posters are by and large the same people who said Ryan Lester wasn’t up to AFL standard. These people specialise in proving how little they know.

He's probably been to more clearances than anyone else bar Neale

I think he's instructed to take it out of the ruck and hack kick it forward when we're struggling to get clearances because his ruckwork is ineffective

 

[snooplions]

Been a big weekend up here but thoughts from the game live. The swans worked harder for the majority of the game. Fatigue played a part. They regularly had the overlap on the fat side.It was a tough slog more contact than a yr 1 classroom. Lachie’s attention was extreme not even facing the ball a lot of the time with nothing called. Kiddy’s goal lifted us and we stepped up intensity to our best level of the night. I was behind Eric for his extraordinary goal had McCartin for pace and the crowd went wild. Beaten in the contest in difficult conditions most of the night but our class got us through. Noah did an outstanding job on Papley off the ball. Haven’t watched the replay but standouts were Richy, McStay and Jarred Lyons

The last quarter must have been so entertaining to watch live. Hope they bring that form and urgency back with them.

 

[mpal6]

He's probably been to more clearances than anyone else bar Neale

I think he's instructed to take it out of the ruck and hack kick it forward when we're struggling to get clearances because his ruckwork is ineffective

Yep, ineffective ruck but gets first possession somehow and hack kicks it forward. Or may be the opposite ruck is feeling so bad for Oscar that he just palms it down to him so that Oscar can do his hack kick. Which theory would make you happy?

 

[jackess]

Yep, ineffective ruck but gets first possession somehow and hack kicks it forward. Or may be the opposite ruck is feeling so bad for Oscar that he just palms it down to him so that Oscar can do his hack kick. Which theory would make you happy?

Against Grundy for example. He knows Grundy is more likely to influence at ground level so to avoid giving him that chance he takes it out of the ruck and hacks it forward.

 

[mpal6]

Against Grundy for example. He knows Grundy is more likely to influence at ground level so to avoid giving him that chance he takes it out of the ruck and hacks it forward.

If he's taking first possession out of ruck, he's must be doing pretty well as a ruckman then.
Can't be ineffective and get first possession + hack kick at the same time?

 

[jackess]

If he's taking first possession out of ruck, he's must be doing pretty well as a ruckman then.
Can't be ineffective and get first possession + hack kick at the same time?

Never said he’s ineffective in the ruck. He’s just average. His ability to take the ball out of the ruck and hack kicking it is good as a backup Especially against the more mobile rucks

 

[DERRINALPHIL]

Am I the only one that thinks while Oscar has improved his ruckwork is still average and really holding him back? Not a top 10 ruck in the league and it's an issue if he can't ruck more than 80% of the game.

He doesn't provide much at ground level though.

Yeah I don't agree with this. He's not a dominant ruck in rock contests, but typically doesn't get beaten (more of a neutralising ruck). Where he's starting to shine is the follow up at ground level. He's getting clearances and defensively following up really well. His pressure acts for a ruck are elite - he averages more than Gawn and Grundy per game.

Now that he's adding clearances to his game (averaging 5 clearances a game the past three games), he's starting to beat his opponents. If he's neutralising the ruck contest, winning clearances and applying pressure when the ball spills to the ground, he's certainly doing more than enough at ground level.

How clean were his hands when he dished off the goal to Charlie! Then there was his ruck work when he smashed the ball a mile forward and put it down Bailey’s throat that ultimately led to a goal. Gems.

Oscar's added strings to his bow. He's better at ground level than he has any right to be at his height. The last two years I just thought he had desire and was a nuisance at ground level but was a bit uncomfortable with the extra size that he had put on in the professional system. When he was a tall skinny ruck plucked out of the VFL it was his agility that was supposed to have given him a point of difference and we're just starting to see that now. He's getting better at the ruck craft and in my opinion he's been the best ruckman in the comp to park in the goal square, since his senior debut, because he will take the grab and more often than not drop it the mile to his boot and still hit it cleanly. He's got a solid ceiling as a primary ruckman and he's showing that he can influence contests all over the ground - in the air AND on the deck. He's definitely a top 10 ruck in the comp at the moment in my opinion, he may never be a top three or four ruck, but Stef hasn't ever really been that either.

To be honest, I don't think I would ever want a ruck who was worth $1m plus a season (unless inflation blows out of course and I'm suddenly earning $400k/year), because they don't really offer the value in the salary cap to where it could be spent elsewhere.

AFL Tables - Brisbane Lions - 2020 Game by Game Player Stats

afltables.com

(Last weekends stats are not included, but Oscar had 4 clearances and made ground on Zorko, who had 3)

Oscar is currently ranked FOURTH at the club this season for CLEARANCES, behind Neale, Lyons and Zorko. He gives us enormous drive all over the park, yet we still have people on our board saying he doesn’t do enough around the ground. These people are seriously demonstrating their complete lack of understanding of our side and the game. Then again, the “Oscar doesn’t do enough around the ground” posters are by and large the same people who said Ryan Lester wasn’t up to AFL standard. These people specialise in proving how little they know.

I can only think that Jackass' comment was a troll sort of comment. Archie, Jackass' obsession, was OK in the last quarter but only just.

A far more interesting thought, came to me while I was in the bath: How good a forward could The Big O become if he put his mind to it? He now goes and gets the ball rather then relying on a hit out stat which is as useful as bosoms on a bull.

Could we say that the BIG O is a manufactured footballer, manufactured by his diligence in applying himself to improvement?

PS I used to say I would have a drink every time Lester got a kick but the BIG O comment......

 

[3KZ is Football]

I can only think that Jackass' comment was a troll sort of comment. Archie, Jackass' obsession, was OK in the last quarter but only just.

A far more interesting thought, came to me while I was in the bath: How good a forward could The Big O become if he put his mind to it? He now goes and gets the ball rather then relying on a hit out stat which is as useful as bosoms on a bull.

Could we say that the BIG O is a manufactured footballer, manufactured by his diligence in applying himself to improvement?

PS I used to say I would have a drink every time Lester got a kick but the BIG O comment......

You are excused from the last comment because you know lots about football, having passed the entrance exam to The Over 50's Clique and have recanted (as opposed to decanted) in relation to Lester. As for Jackass, I blocked him because he has a very limited understanding of the game. Empty vessel, I'm afraid.

 

[Brett C]

Apologies for being pedantic, but we've used 36 players this year, after 35 last year.

So you’re saying we’re blooding plenty of newbies

 

[Dylan12]

So you’re saying we’re blooding plenty of newbies

I’m not saying anything other than correcting how many players we’ve used this year.

 

[mpal6]

He's probably been to more clearances than anyone else bar Neale

I think he's instructed to take it out of the ruck and hack kick it forward when we're struggling to get clearances because his ruckwork is ineffective

Never said he’s ineffective in the ruck. He’s just average. His ability to take the ball out of the ruck and hack kicking it is good as a backup Especially against the more mobile rucks

 

[jackess]

Ok I meant when his ruckwork is ineffective eg. against Grundy

 

[jackess]

I can only think that Jackass' comment was a troll sort of comment. Archie, Jackass' obsession, was OK in the last quarter but only just.

A far more interesting thought, came to me while I was in the bath: How good a forward could The Big O become if he put his mind to it? He now goes and gets the ball rather then relying on a hit out stat which is as useful as bosoms on a bull.

Could we say that the BIG O is a manufactured footballer, manufactured by his diligence in applying himself to improvement?

PS I used to say I would have a drink every time Lester got a kick but the BIG O comment......

You’re second paragraph explains my reason to play Archie

Oscar didn’t do much ruckwork on the weekend and didn’t do a whole lot when rucking but it was one of his more influential games because he could focus more on being a long target

Similar to how McStay makes the forward line function better without scoring many fantasy points (which 3KZ will tell you is important) Archie will help us use Oscar more effectively

 

[Maroon Monsoon]

You’re second paragraph explains my reason to play Archie

Oscar didn’t do much ruckwork on the weekend and didn’t do a whole lot when rucking but it was one of his more influential games because he could focus more on being a long target

Similar to how McStay makes the forward line function better without scoring many fantasy points (which 3KZ will tell you is important) Archie will help us use Oscar more effectively

Thats an interesting perspective. I've actually felt that having Archie back has limited Oscar because its taken him away from the rucking contest where he's grown to be so effective and instead left us with someone who isn't performing as well in neutralising the opposing ruck or when the ball hits the ground.

If it was stef we were talking about instead of Archie id be more inclined to agree, but as it stands it feels like Archie is largely there to take some miles off Oscar. He's definitely working his hardest and improved a lot in Q4 against the swans but he's just not up to the same standard to be honest

 

[luthor]

I can't be bothered reading all these arguments about Oscar.

As far as I am concerned he's bloody good.

That's all

 

[BuntonRules]

Archie did more than enough last night to justify his position this week.

 

[jackess]

For clarity I’d rate our rucks

Oscar
ruckwork: 5/10
clearances 6/10
transition 2/10
Marking 7/10
Average 5/10

Archie
ruckwork 4/10
Clearances 2/10
Transition 1/10
Marking 0/10
Average 1.75/10

Stef (2019 form)
ruckwork 7/10
Clearances 7/10
Transition 8/10
Marking 4/10
Average 6.5/10

Stef also gets bonus marks for endurance

 

[luthor]

Archie did more than enough last night to justify his position this week.

I just finished watching a replay of the 4th quarter,

After the Swans drew within 2 points, there were two centre clearances in a row where Archie was instrumental in setting up the two goals that followed.

CEY did some good work to get the first and the second was Coleman's team lifter

Then suddenly we led by 14 again .

Archie deserves a lot of credit for his input at that crucial stage of the match