Review Round 17, 2023 - Brisbane Lions vs. West Coast

[M Malice]

I had that slightly negative perception of him too. But the last couple of games have changed that. In some of his other high stats games he’d get a bunch of cheap passes in the backline, then hang on to the ball for ages and give a short kick backwards or sideways with no offensive value.
But recently he’s shown he wins his own ball, tackles very effectively, and his disposal has been creative and highly skilled.
It shows he’s a great learner. He watches what the guns can do and emulates them. He just can’t possibly have peaked at eighteen so the plaudits he’s receiving now are fully justified. Had my doubts, thought he was overrated, but not now. Champion in the making.

We were commenting at the game yesterday that an area of Ashcroft's game that is underrated is his tackling, rarely gets shrugged off and sticks most tackles, highly impressive for a teenager.

 

[BuntonRules]

Not with the way we use our sub. Ah Chee will get 10 mins of game time.

I thought we missed an opportunity - and dissed a young man trying to make his way. The game was well over half way thru the 3rd quarter, and that is when I thought we should have made the substitution. Let Kai have a decent run at it.

 

[Ad Astra]

I’ve got a feeling that the sun had a huge part in making the game look scrappy and our skills not up to our usual standards. The players rarely mention it because it sounds like they’re making poor excuses.
I remember a match against saints? Melbourne? at docklands quite a few years ago (Jed adcock

Jed Adcock

Age

38

Ht

183cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.4

4star

K

10.3

4star

HB

7.1

4star

M

4.5

4star

T

3.6

5star

MG

214.0

3star

No current season stats available

D

8.8

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

4.2

4star

M

2.0

3star

T

2.2

4star

basically won it for us in the last quarter) with the roof open. The errors were hideous. I was there and everyone was in hysterics, the turnovers by both teams were so laughable. Whenever it crossed from shade to sunshine, players would have no idea where the ball was. Iirc, Ryan Lester

35

Ryan Lester

Age

31

Ht

192cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.9

4star

K

7.9

3star

HB

7.0

4star

M

3.9

4star

T

2.7

4star

MG

170.4

3star

D

10.3

3star

K

5.8

2star

HB

4.5

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

1.5

2star

MG

140.7

3star

D

12.6

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

5.8

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

0.6

3star

, all on his own, kicked a backwards pass that hit an opp player on the chest for a goal. I think it was Gerard Healy, who lambasted him and said he had no future. Ten(?) years later, Froggy is tearing it up. Champion.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

I thought we missed an opportunity - and dissed a young man trying to make his way. The game was well over half way thru the 3rd quarter, and that is when I thought we should have made the substitution. Let Kai have a decent run at it.

Zorko is far more likely to be a mjor part of our finals campaign than Kai is. I'm sure the balance between match fitness and injury management is a tricky one to balance for guys at the back end of their career.

 

[Thomasno]

Eagles wernt good at all. People saying ‘they went defensive’ or ‘made it a slog’ - it was literally training drill level of intensity most of the game, we just kept kicking it to dumb spots over and over. We left 10 goals on the table EASY!

Burying the lede here. They DID make it defensive and a slog after QT. We still missed a fair few gettable shots, but if they didn’t shut it down after QT it would’ve been an absolute blowout similar to the Sydney game.

We were able to move the ball with such freedom and ease in the first quarter that it wasn’t even a contest, so after that they parked players behind the ball and it became a grind.


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[Gadzorks]

I wasn't able to watch the game, might get to it during the week.

What I have loved in the games without gunston -

Defensive pressure in the forward 50

A spread of goal scorers, which wrecks the opposition defenders. This is the secret to success but requires each forward to be a defensive pressure forward when an other is on.

Gunston has 8 shots so he was the 'it' forward yesterday. It forwards can be shut down so are a weak link. Think Browney - awesome it forward, one of the best but he played in a lot of losses.

I do not believe gunston can be a defensive forward, and I think it's a weakness the best opposition will successfully exploit.

Next week was always going to be the gunston test.

 

[Thomasno]

Not looking at the amount we won by but our performance was just average against the bottom side. Our last MCG game against Hawthorn was a disaster and hence going to the "G" again does not give me confidence of victory which we need to win in hope of getting top two.. Melbourne are not on top of their game so victory is possible if we play well. Selection is critical and lazy dumb football is out. Fagan has has 10 losses at the G so hopefully that changes? We have many things going well for us but our concerns need addressing

Our performance was average because we could win by 81 points by playing average. Why go at 100% and risk injuries in a literally meaningless game?

The key difference is against the hawks we were POOR. Much more competent yesterday even if it wasn’t our best footy

 

[Thomasno]

It looks like we are starting to use Ashcroft more on those 1 -2's that he does. Heard from yesterday that he is number 1 in the competition for making a clearance an effective clearance. What a talent. Fletcher as well, still could do with getting the ball more but just looks classy and kicks the ball well. Our young guns have great potential

Fletcher playing that outside wing role that Robbo played the last few years, means he unfortunately doesn’t get much of it

 

[FLVanLandingham]

There's not many chances to bulldoze a team scoring >150 points.

And especially less once it has happened to them a few weeks before and they are desperate to rather park the bus and take a more 'honorable loss'.

Fages said in his presser all he wanted was us to punch them in the nose right from the start and stun them, not allowing them any hope to make it competitive, then hold them off (I'm obviously paraphrasing here ). I'm happy with that, get some percentage, get no injuries etc etc.

People talk about Dusty and Petracca being explosive in traffic.. dusty with his fend offs...
Have a look at our boy Rayner. Not only does he get out of tackles with sheer brute force, he fends off and gets clear of the pack. at speed!
My word the speed in which he entered the contest, shrugged clear and got free was so great to watch. At the end of that he is disposing to our advantage really well.

Now if he could just get that same efficiency finishing off with a goal

McCluggage, too was entering contests at speed and such a great player. Built into the season marvelously.

Ashcroft with the obtuse angled kick (i forget maths.. forgive me) was flashy, not sure if a handball wouldn't have worked just as well though

 

[Nathan Barley]

There's not many chances to bulldoze a team scoring >150 points.

And especially less once it has happened to them a few weeks before and they are desperate to rather park the bus and take a more 'honorable loss'.

Fages said in his presser all he wanted was us to punch them in the nose right from the start and stun them, not allowing them any hope to make it competitive, then hold them off (I'm obviously paraphrasing here ). I'm happy with that, get some percentage, get no injuries etc etc.

People talk about Dusty and Petracca being explosive in traffic.. dusty with his fend offs...
Have a look at our boy Rayner. Not only does he get out of tackles with sheer brute force, he fends off and gets clear of the pack. at speed!
My word the speed in which he entered the contest, shrugged clear and got free was so great to watch. At the end of that he is disposing to our advantage really well.

Now if he could just get that same efficiency finishing off with a goal

McCluggage, too was entering contests at speed and such a great player. Built into the season marvelously.

Ashcroft with the obtuse angled kick (i forget maths.. forgive me) was flashy, not sure if a handball wouldn't have worked just as well though

It wasn't about the points difference but the way we played. We've had significant flaws which haven't allowed us to stand up in finals. Yesterday was another chance to execute at a level that would stand up in finals and we didnt IMO.

That's the disappointment from yesterday

 

[FLVanLandingham]

well i guess I didn't expect us to play at a level expected for finals against 18th

but I do have low expectations

 

[Warwick]

McCluggage is certainly playing AA-calibre footy again.

We always needed him to be at his best if we were to challenge this year.

He's probably snagged 4-5 Brownlow votes this past fortnight.

 

[M Malice]

well i guess I didn't expect us to play at a level expected for finals against 18th

but I do have low expectations

When we were leading 45-0 I said if we keep playing like this the all time winning margin record was in danger... but you just knew it wasn't going to happen, so bloody hard to maintain the rage against a side you are expected to beat easily and put the game to bed early.

 

[Nathan Barley]

On our goal kicking. We kicked 16.14 with 6 rushed

The issue wasn't as much the goal kicking but where we were taking shots from which came down to our ball movement breaking down despite little pressure. Not running hard enough and not executing the difficult kicks

 

[Nathan Barley]

When we were leading 45-0 I said if we keep playing like this the all time winning margin record was in danger... but you just knew it wasn't going to happen, so bloody hard to maintain the rage against a side you are expected to beat easily and put the game to bed early.

Especially when the coach tells you to get an early lead and then coast to the finish line (based on his press conference comments)

 

[M Malice]

Especially when the coach tells you to get an early lead and then coast to the finish line (based on his press conference comments)

Lets hope we coast to the finish line this Friday night, 3 straight 81 point victories will do nicely.

 

[Lets Roar like '44]

When we were leading 45-0 I said if we keep playing like this the all time winning margin record was in danger... but you just knew it wasn't going to happen, so bloody hard to maintain the rage against a side you are expected to beat easily and put the game to bed early.

That’s what annoys me. If you’re lucky you might get one free shot at breaking a record in your career playing against such a poor side like West Coast at the moment, just go for it. Winning by 1 or 200 will make no difference in making the GF or not, so don’t know why when you have a chance for something amazing, why not have a crack at it?

 

[Nathan Barley]

Lets hope we coast to the finish line this Friday night, 3 straight 81 point victories will do nicely.

We tried coasting against them in round 2 after the blackout and almost got rolled

 

[M Malice]

That’s what annoys me. If you’re lucky you might get one free shot at breaking a record in your career playing against such a poor side like West Coast at the moment, just go for it. Winning by 1 or 200 will make no difference in making the GF or not, so don’t know why when you have a chance for something amazing, why not have a crack at it?

Players have different mentalities and motivations, they're not robotic metronomes.

I played soccer most of my life and a few years of competitive squash, I was someone that played at the same intensity no matter what the score line said, behind or in front made no difference to me, however most of my team mates did not have the same frame of mind.

Which must mean I am a robotic, emotionless metronome.

 

[M Malice]

We tried coasting against them in round 2 after the blackout and almost got rolled

Lets hope the MCG accounts manager paid their latest electricity bill.

 

[Section 5]

That’s what annoys me. If you’re lucky you might get one free shot at breaking a record in your career playing against such a poor side like West Coast at the moment, just go for it. Winning by 1 or 200 will make no difference in making the GF or not, so don’t know why when you have a chance for something amazing, why not have a crack at it?

I believe when players go goal hunting & chasing records you lose your usual team structure and game plan.
Since the Swans huge win, they have managed a draw then a loss.
Against the Eagles i thought we were mostly trying to stick to the usual and not get carried away.
I will take an 81 point win any day.

 

[Brett C]

My feeling is that , once he knows he’s not going to impact the rest of the contest, (out of position, tackle doesn’t stick etc.), he doesn’t waste energy by flailing desperately but in vain. This amplifies the perception of him not trying hard enough while I’d wager his effective defensive work is as good as the other defenders. Wilmott can look that way as well. It’s because he’s calculating when to best intervene without going to ground. When, through bad luck or the odd miscalculation, it doesn’t come off, it looks like like he’s not going in hard enough.

The 2nd goal by West Coast was the prime example of him not putting in the effort needed.

Could have covered Hunt easily but just jogged when tracking back.

Coleman gets an easy run on this board that most other players done when it comes to defence.

 

[Brett C]

That’s what annoys me. If you’re lucky you might get one free shot at breaking a record in your career playing against such a poor side like West Coast at the moment, just go for it. Winning by 1 or 200 will make no difference in making the GF or not, so don’t know why when you have a chance for something amazing, why not have a crack at it?

I don’t think players care about records like that especially against a team as poor as West Coast this season.

Wouldn’t even enter their thinking if they’re genuine premiership contenders

 

[Tom14]

Hilarious to hear opposition supporters criticise him for “padding his stats”.

Those 1-2s are vastly different from the circle-jerk work you see from Macrae/Treloar and co.

Ashcroft wins the hard ball, typically finds a teammate with hand or foot, and busts a gut to provide that running option. By doing that he creates space and overlap to find someone up field. Turns a stagnant clearance into a clear and effective possession.

Its quite similar to how N*ck Da*co* does 1-2s now that he's in the midfield, in that its a lot of surge forward hand balls then good ball use out of clearance.

 

[Nathan Barley]

The 2nd goal by West Coast was the prime example of him not putting in the effort needed.

Could have covered Hunt easily but just jogged when tracking back.

Coleman gets an easy run on this board that most other players done when it comes to defence.

How closely do other teams designated attacking half backs stick to their opponents?

Kiddy had our second most intercept possessions on the weekend and we know how damaging he is with the footy