Review Round 17, Collingwood v Box Hill Hawks - Victoria Park, 2 August 2014, 1.00pm

[The Jet From Poowong]

Missed the first quarter with car problems and I'm coming dinner now so will add my thoughts later. Reckon Grundy was the best ruckman on the ground for his work around the ground but Ceglar kicked two vital goals and was a handful up forward. Lowden did little and Grimley was mindblowingly inconsistent with his attack on football. Hartung was very good but colonels had our measure in midfield for most of the game.

Yep the likes of Woody and Langers were missing in the centre and it showed. We were beaten in the middle but Box Hill still should have won.

 

[Bumpswithagrin]

Well I brave the wilds of Collingwood and we lose (caught up with a fmaily member who lives over there so the afternoon wasn't entirely wasted ).

A poor showing by Box Hill today I thought. Never really looked in the game despite the fact we hit the front in the last quarter, would have been lucky if we had won that one on today's form. Hoping it's the loss we had to have - onwards and upwards!

 

[The Cleaner]

On Lowden, again he battled for consistency. Outpointed a lot in the air but did show some dexterity on the ground and threaded a silky goal from the boundary.

 

[Easy Slips Catch]

Anyone put their hand up?

Rossy was my best. Had a crack and tried to take the game on. Cheney flogged Lynch, Bocca just lacks those sharp footskills that are needed when bringing the ball out of defence. When he tried to be daring it came unstuck.

Sicily is just going. Hardly runs and that leap he showed early in the year is missing. Be good to see how he fights out the year.

Willsmore ran off a wing. Don't think he is slow yet sometimes he looks like he is slow to react. One of the few BHH guys with AFL skills.

Cegs got his share of the hitouts and took more marks than any other rucks. I like the way he consistently takes pack marks.

Boxer's output was down because he was tagged or was tagging. His speed is diabolical but he has a great boot on him. Was one of the few BHH guys capable of opening the game up.

 

[TheFourPillars]

Good contest all day they got the jump on us in the 1st qtr and we played catch up all day long. They also had more leg speed out there especially in there forward line early. Which seemed to cause us so much trouble. We weren't good enough to win it in the end.

Bocca was our best player today. So many times he was the one impacting the contest and getting the ball going out of defence by either marking it or bringing the ball to ground.

Hartung was great for 3 qtrs got a lot of the pill needs to get it moving forward of center to really hurt the opposition most of his run was from half back. Ran out of puff in the last.

Ross was good in th first half but then was shifted to tagging someone i reckon after that he was disciplined in job.

Lowden. The guy had some real chances to hit the scoreboard but seems to be down on confidence. Even when he took a mark in the 3rd over Cegs (the ump stuffed this up) he just gave the ball up to cegs to have the shot.

Brand was in a great contest with Karnesis and you have to say that the honours were about even.

Wanganeen was unsighted for nearly the first half suddenly came to life in the 3rd and then went missing again in the last.

Hallahan really off the boil in the center at the moment. Not getting enough of it. He must be getting tagged and not handling it well.

Willsmore a clean disposer of the ball by hand and by foot and good decision maker but was found wanting for pace early on as he was playing on sinclair. Worked hard for the game.

O'brien took some good marks on the lead and took a pack mark in the forward line in the first and most importantly converted from 45. Was good on the lead but as usual was pushed out of contests easily.

Ceglar Was good today i wouldn't say outstanding but more than serviceable. Kicked a couple of goals one a gift from lowden.

Sicily been a long year and unfortunately young sic looks about ready to call it for the year. Looks done both in mind and body. Will be better for another pre season.

Grimmers had a decent game kept presenting and kicked some goals one on the siren in the 3rd and one in the 4th tried to win it for us. Yes he is abit of a show pony. One thing i did like about him today was the demand for the ball. Running 60 - 70 meters yelling at the player to kick it to him. Thats what you want from a forward you want them to want the ball when the game is on the line. Kudos it is something that he has really improved and was a highlight for him today.

Finally once again Young Luke Andrews was left to carry / lift our midfield. His tackling pressure and his clearances went a long way to helping us get back in the game. In fact when we got a rally on and hallahan lifted as well we looked like running away with it. Collingwood deserved the win they played well all day and were the better team.

 

[becalm]

Can anyone who watches Box Hill games offer an opinion as to whats gone wrong with Hallahan. Ever since he was dropped from the AFL side he seems to have gone backwards. He has had some injury worries I think which may something to do with it. Currently he is not playing like a Liston Trophy winner.

 

[Dixie Flatline]

Missed the first quarter with a car issue, but saw the final three. Give Hartung another pre-season to build his tank, and he can join Smith and Hill in giving opponents fits with their stamina and speed. He demands the ball and he generally gets it, but fades in the last quarter at times (a bit like Hill did when he first started to play for Hawthorn). He certainly caught my eye.

It was a good battle between Grundy and Ceglar for most of the game (that I saw). Lowden was the second string ruckman so generally played against the Pies' second string ruckman. Grundy did a fair bit around the ground (probably a bit too much at times, because he certainly stuffed up a few times). Ceglar did kick two goals and plucked some strong marks in the forward line, but if Hale plays decently tomorrow, Ceglar hasn't done enough to push himself back into Hawthorn's team.

Brand had a good duel with Karnezis down back. Brand played reasonably well, although Karnezis did thread a nice goal in the third quarter from the boundary line after marking strongly against Brand. Cheney was disciplined in the air but had the maddening habit of spoiling the ball into play rather than looking for the boundary line. Cheney's field-kicking was also hit and miss. Still he took some good intercept marks as the game wore on and couldn't really be blamed for the late-game collapse that allowed Collingwood to win.

Without Langford and Woodward, Box Hill's midfield struggled to match an older and more polished Collingwood, which was ably led by Luke Ball with Clinton Young prominent running the lines. Box Hill allowed Young to too often swing onto his left boot and he used it reasonably well for this level. Ball, too, was super important in the clearances for Collingwood and more than matched Iles and Hallahan. I'm not entirely sure I'd agree with the assessment that Boxer was being tagged - he seems to be played a lot more away from the packs over the last few weeks with the minority of his time spent in the clinches. He was well beaten by Ball when he played in the guts and to me he looks like a player who is well down on form.

Nominally I think Kelly is playing half-back for Box Hill but he's been given licence to push forward whenever he can, to the point that he's really now a winger. He looks reasonably good in that role but I think he's left his run too late to make it as an AFL player with Hawthorn. Nonetheless, I think that if he would be given an opportunity at senior level and given a role to do, he would do it well.

O'Brien looked to be more involved and his sticky hands help him to grab some marks on the fast lead. However, his physique won't let him compete with defenders in contested marking situations and he also spilled some marks that he probably should have taken. He did his best work up the ground and still seems the odd man out in Box Hill's very tall forward line.

In the second quarter, Grimley missed some really easy shots at goal and competed very poorly in marking contests, but the second half revealed Grimley in a different light. He made contests, plucked marks and kicked goals. I was ready to delist him at half-time, but he fought back in the second half. I think his neck is on the block at the end of the season, however.

I would have thought that Lowden's taste of senior football would have really motivated him to play well, but if anything, he's gone backwards this season. As mentioned above, he played second fiddle to Ceglar in the ruck and spent most of his time in the forward line, where he really failed to impose himself on the Collingwood defence. He still has good skills when the ball hits the deck, but that really isn't the ruckman's job. I hope he turns it around as the season draws to a close, but I'm scratching my head a bit.

Wanganeen had a cameo in the third quarter but was anonymous in the other two quarters I saw. I'm biased as I didn't think he should have been given another chance last year but he hasn't given me a reason to keep him for 2015.

I'm not sure what value is being derived from playing Sicily at present. He's barely getting a touch at the moment and is spending a lot of time chasing his opponent around the ground. Had no influence and I think he'd benefit from dropping back to the development squad for a round or two and recharging his batteries for the run home.

I thought Ben Ross' game was reasonable today. Accumulated the pill reasonably and generally used it okay. For mine, he was about Box Hill's most consistent midfielder today.

From the Box Hill boys, Tobin's goals and his all round work marked him out as a prominent contributor. Cust also kicked (at least) one and almost had another but for the intervention of the goal post. Mirra played a typically efficient game from half-back and Kennedy did reasonably well in defence. Xavier Murphy got involved as best he could, particularly in midfield, as he strives to become more than just a specialist forward pocket.

At the end of the day, Collingwood were better than Box Hill for a longer period of time and deserved their victory, notwithstanding the fact that they were carrying Quentin Lynch for the game (he surely must be pulling the pin at the end of the season).

The loss drops Box Hill to third with Williamstown touching up Essendon and given Footscray is playing Bendigo Gold tomorrow, Box Hill will 99.99% be fourth by the end of the round.

 

[Dixie Flatline]

The result was a fair bit different to the last time I saw Box Hill play at Victoria Park. Last time I was at a game there, Hodge, Hill, Bateman and Bailey all played for Box Hill, Boumann was the full back and Box Hill won by approximately 1,539 points.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threa...y-21st-july-victoria-park-at-10-30-am.962427/

 

[Bonscott1980]

Was at that game remember it well,that's the night boumann got into trouble

 

[Bonscott1980]

Thanx for all the news from today,pity we lost

 

[The Jet From Poowong]

Wanganeen absolutely murdered the ball too many times today. Looking elsewhere at the end of the season.

 

[The Cleaner]

Insightful analysis as ever, guys. Thanks.

One point to pick up on was that Boxer was definitely being tagged late in the game. I saw him swipe at his tagger a couple of times at stoppages. He doesn't have the pace to clear these tags so they can hurt. Collingwood recognised he was our biggest threat in the middle and they harried him to the point where a lot of his clearances were smothered. Getting the likes of Simpkin/Langford/Woodward back will free him up but he's struggling for impact right now.

 

[Davo-27]

Cheney: was our best on ground, alot of defensive marks, without him we would've lost by 10 goals+

O'Brien: took a few big marks, but dropped too many marks and has so little impact

Wanganeen: has gone backwards, he must've made at least 10 clangers, half of them when he was under no pressure

Hartung: demands the ball alot, doesn't do anything with it when he gets it, worked hard but had poor output yesterday

Willsmore + Brand: developing young tall defenders, played solidly without being great

Ross: played well, was probably our best mid

Hallahan: insipid performance, did nothing, but was cheered for doing nothing, so i guess a handful of fans were happy to see him do nothing?

Grimley + Lowden: both took a few marks, had a few shots at goal, they are always decent in VFL level, we needed them to stand up seeing as our mids were getting beaten so hard and they didn't

Ceglar: played well, but so did Grundy..... both rucks played well which makes neither in the best?

Sicily: the kid is shot, like all young'uns 3/4 through their first yr they basically have nothing in the tank

Lock + Isles: both were disappointing, especially isles, they both seem to be in poor form yesterday

Tobin + Cust: 2 guys to show some good form and both played well, Cust was free a few times and they didn't go through him, i thought we would've been better off going through Cust as he was killing it, but obviously isn't the go to man at the club....

 

[Ordovician]

Insightful analysis as ever, guys. Thanks.

One point to pick up on was that Boxer was definitely being tagged late in the game. I saw him swipe at his tagger a couple of times at stoppages. He doesn't have the pace to clear these tags so they can hurt. Collingwood recognised he was our biggest threat in the middle and they harried him to the point where a lot of his clearances were smothered. Getting the likes of Simpkin/Langford/Woodward back will free him up but he's struggling for impact right now.

That is it in a nutshell.

No pace to run off a tagger means the ragger has to fall asleep for Hallahan to get any separation.

And now for the elephant in the room ...

Hallahan is just not good a getting the ball out when he is in close. He just lacks the close in hand skills of a Mitchell or even a Schneider, to thread the ball out as he is about to get tackled. FFS Schneider used to regularly (several times a game) wait until he was in the middle of being tackled to get his handpass out to allow his target time to get better separation on the outside of the pack. You see this problem very clearly a AFL level when Hallahan takes the ball and then just gets ridden into the ground with the tackle because he can't get the ball out. He just lacks cleverness or he does not anticipate the disposal before he takes possession. Dew was a master of this, you just knew that Dew had already decided where to place the ball well before he even took possession. In contrast Hallahan often gets jammed up and tries to get a kick around the body when he faces frontal pressure. This fact combined with his reluctance to dispose by hand means that it is a short step for his opponents go go from forcing a hurried kick around the body to just smothering his kick.

AFAICT Hallahan is just not sufficiently clever enough by hand to get the ball out cleanly from the centre of a pack or maul. Mitchell is a master of this and Sewell is not too bad either. It is stock and trade for an in and under mid and Hallahan does not make the grade.

 

[Ordovician]

People have been pointing out that our mids were poor yesterday and that is true but they were hardly Robinson Caruso in that regard. Andrews looked like he was the only one trying by in fairness to them, our rucking was pretty poor as well. With 2 rucks to AFL listed ruck and a no name, we really should have got on top eventually later in the game especially as Grundy tired. This did not happen. I don't know why people thought Ceglar was good he certainly did nothing to demand consideration for selection next week.

As for the rest of the team I thought they were pretty much all complete rubbish up until the ten minute mark of the second quarter. The defenders were poor and the forwards just disorganised. I think WBC said somewhere after the 20 minute mark of the first, that BH had 2 F50s to the ersatz Pies 10 or 12. That is a walk over in anyone's language. The coach said as much, in more diplomatic ego smoothing weasel words that the poor little gen y & z petals need to hear so that their self esteem does not become endangered. SFJ they just need to be told they served up unacceptable crap and if they ever wanted to be fair dinkum AFL footballers they would have to extract the friggin' digit.

Perhaps the softly softly approach worked as they started to turn it around midway through the second and started a long chase to catch the pies. By the late in the fourth BH got in front and for a while the scores were level but BH could not go on with it and lost the game in the last few minutes.

In the end they had too many passengers. Cheney, Andrews, Hartung, Brand a few others could hold their heads up while quite a few went missing for the whole or very large parts of the game like Sicily, Wangers, Grimmers or where just poor on the day like Isles.

My gut feel is that Sicily is has some injuries and needs a few weeks off to get over them and I reckon Willsmore is not 100% in the leg-al region either hence the apparent slowness.

 

[crazywildhorse]

Sicily has just run out of legs for 2014, the fatigue of stepping up to AFL level from being a skinny junior is not to underestimated.

 

[Dixie Flatline]

The Bulldogs are already 51 points up over the Gold. Box Hill will be fourth by tonight.

 

[Bumpswithagrin]

Hallahan: insipid performance, did nothing, but was cheered for doing nothing, so i guess a handful of fans were happy to see him do nothing?

Maybe they were cheers of encouragement

That is it in a nutshell.

And now for the elephant in the room ...

Hallahan is just not good a getting the ball out when he is in close. He just lacks the close in hand skills of a Mitchell or even a Schneider, to thread the ball out as he is about to get tackled. FFS Schneider used to regularly (several times a game) wait until he was in the middle of being tackled to get his handpass out to allow his target time to get better separation on the outside of the pack. You see this problem very clearly a AFL level when Hallahan takes the ball and then just gets ridden into the ground with the tackle because he can't get the ball out. He just lacks cleverness or he does not anticipate the disposal before he takes possession. Dew was a master of this, you just knew that Dew had already decided where to place the ball well before he even took possession. In contrast Hallahan often gets jammed up and tries to get a kick around the body when he faces frontal pressure. This fact combined with his reluctance to dispose by hand means that it is a short step for his opponents go go from forcing a hurried kick around the body to just smothering his kick.

AFAICT Hallahan is just not sufficiently clever enough by hand to get the ball out cleanly from the centre of a pack or maul. Mitchell is a master of this and Sewell is not too bad either. It is stock and trade for an in and under mid and Hallahan does not make the grade.

I tend to agree, I have thought this for awhile. Good at getting the ball not so good at getting rid of it. Assuming he can improve in this area though.

As for the coach not being hard enough on them I assume they get a rocket at half time in situations like this, even if the 1/4 and 3/4 time addresses seem a bit insipid.

 

[nickrebellious]

The result was a fair bit different to the last time I saw Box Hill play at Victoria Park. Last time I was at a game there, Hodge, Hill, Bateman and Bailey all played for Box Hill, Boumann was the full back and Box Hill won by approximately 1,539 points.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threa...y-21st-july-victoria-park-at-10-30-am.962427/

Ahh the days were BHH would play 6 ruck man in the one side.

 

[LuvMyHawks]

According to a commentator on late/ early this morning, said that the media attempted to speak to Ceglar, and another of our players, and the boys were told NOT to speak to any media, journalist etc. Very strange I thought..Did anyone else hear them on SEN after midnight?

 

[Bumpswithagrin]

According to a commentator on late/ early this morning, said that the media attempted to speak to Ceglar, and another of our players, and the boys were told NOT to speak to any media, journalist etc. Very strange I thought..Did anyone else hear them on SEN after midnight?

It was Howard Leigh. He said the same thing on 3WBC before the game. It was just talking to players prior to the match, afterwards is still OK I think. Storm in a teacup if you ask me, probably just want the players to focus on the game at hand (too many pointless media interviews anyway IMO... Spectemur Agendo!)

 

[houdinihuddo]

Q1 Q2 Q3 Q4
Sandringham 2.3-15 5.6-36 8.8-56 13.10-88
Box Hill Hawks 2.4-16 2.6-18 8.8-56 10.9-69


Sandringham
Goal Kickers: R. Harris 2, M. Kreymborg 2, O. Persson , C. Banfield , J. Woodman , D. Weickhardt , J. Blenkinsop , J. Munro , Y. Zijai , D. Waterman , B. Coates
Best Players: , J. Munro , O. Persson , J. Plostins , L. Barnhoorn , Y. Zijai , C. Banfield
Box Hill Hawks
Goal Kickers: K. Post 3, J. Walker , B. Wood , C. Cassidy , P. McEvoy , N. Evans , D. Vizzarri , J. Summers
Best Players: , M. Thompson , T. Miles , N. Evans , J. Soccio , K. Post , C. Cassidy

A very disappointing result. Sandy hadn't played since 13 July and after we kicked the first goal in the last quarter they finished all over us kicking the next 5 goals. We kicked our 10th goal after the siren.

Kurt was matched up on Boo Dowler during the game and apart from being out positioned for a mark on one occasion he kept Boo reasonably quiet. Kurt attacked the ball strongly but was a little untidy with his ball handling at times. I don't think Kurt did enough to push for senior selection.

The gold medal for the day goes to Kaiden Brand who was the only HFC player to attend the game. Thank you Brandy, much appreciated.

 

[floss_7]

Q1 Q2 Q3 Q4
Sandringham 2.3-15 5.6-36 8.8-56 13.10-88
Box Hill Hawks 2.4-16 2.6-18 8.8-56 10.9-69


Sandringham
Goal Kickers: R. Harris 2, M. Kreymborg 2, O. Persson , C. Banfield , J. Woodman , D. Weickhardt , J. Blenkinsop , J. Munro , Y. Zijai , D. Waterman , B. Coates
Best Players: , J. Munro , O. Persson , J. Plostins , L. Barnhoorn , Y. Zijai , C. Banfield
Box Hill Hawks
Goal Kickers: K. Post 3, J. Walker , B. Wood , C. Cassidy , P. McEvoy , N. Evans , D. Vizzarri , J. Summers
Best Players: , M. Thompson , T. Miles , N. Evans , J. Soccio , K. Post , C. Cassidy

A very disappointing result. Sandy hadn't played since 13 July and after we kicked the first goal in the last quarter they finished all over us kicking the next 5 goals. We kicked our 10th goal after the siren.

Kurt was matched up on Boo Dowler during the game and apart from being out positioned for a mark on one occasion he kept Boo reasonably quiet. Kurt attacked the ball strongly but was a little untidy with his ball handling at times. I don't think Kurt did enough to push for senior selection.

The gold medal for the day goes to Kaiden Brand who was the only HFC player to attend the game. Thank you Brandy, much appreciated.

The senior VFL blokes were there as well.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

That is it in a nutshell.

No pace to run off a tagger means the ragger has to fall asleep for Hallahan to get any separation.

And now for the elephant in the room ...

Hallahan is just not good a getting the ball out when he is in close. He just lacks the close in hand skills of a Mitchell or even a Schneider, to thread the ball out as he is about to get tackled. FFS Schneider used to regularly (several times a game) wait until he was in the middle of being tackled to get his handpass out to allow his target time to get better separation on the outside of the pack. You see this problem very clearly a AFL level when Hallahan takes the ball and then just gets ridden into the ground with the tackle because he can't get the ball out. He just lacks cleverness or he does not anticipate the disposal before he takes possession. Dew was a master of this, you just knew that Dew had already decided where to place the ball well before he even took possession. In contrast Hallahan often gets jammed up and tries to get a kick around the body when he faces frontal pressure. This fact combined with his reluctance to dispose by hand means that it is a short step for his opponents go go from forcing a hurried kick around the body to just smothering his kick.

AFAICT Hallahan is just not sufficiently clever enough by hand to get the ball out cleanly from the centre of a pack or maul. Mitchell is a master of this and Sewell is not too bad either. It is stock and trade for an in and under mid and Hallahan does not make the grade.

I am not convinced he'll be anything but a depth mid at AFL level (player 16 - 25 on ourlist).

Has been in the system a while now and with his below average leg speed, he does not have enough additional tricks.

Will be interesting to see his next 12 months...

 

[Procrastinator35]

That is it in a nutshell.

No pace to run off a tagger means the ragger has to fall asleep for Hallahan to get any separation.

And now for the elephant in the room ...

Hallahan is just not good a getting the ball out when he is in close. He just lacks the close in hand skills of a Mitchell or even a Schneider, to thread the ball out as he is about to get tackled. FFS Schneider used to regularly (several times a game) wait until he was in the middle of being tackled to get his handpass out to allow his target time to get better separation on the outside of the pack. You see this problem very clearly a AFL level when Hallahan takes the ball and then just gets ridden into the ground with the tackle because he can't get the ball out. He just lacks cleverness or he does not anticipate the disposal before he takes possession. Dew was a master of this, you just knew that Dew had already decided where to place the ball well before he even took possession. In contrast Hallahan often gets jammed up and tries to get a kick around the body when he faces frontal pressure. This fact combined with his reluctance to dispose by hand means that it is a short step for his opponents go go from forcing a hurried kick around the body to just smothering his kick.

AFAICT Hallahan is just not sufficiently clever enough by hand to get the ball out cleanly from the centre of a pack or maul. Mitchell is a master of this and Sewell is not too bad either. It is stock and trade for an in and under mid and Hallahan does not make the grade.

Yep I hear you ordivician....And to think we took him ahead of Parker in the draft.....Dear GOD!....When we announced his name instead of Parker's at Clarko's insistence, I near threw the remote thru the telly!

Lets call a spade a spade, we screwed that one up BIG time!....Lets hope it doesn't come back to bite as big as the Thorp over Selwood disaster hey!