Review Round 18, 2020 - Brisbane Lions vs. Carlton

[luthor]

Berry will be back so CEY goes out for him, if Andrews comes back early it's Payne out. The dilemma will be if they want to bring back a managed Answerth, I can't see an obvious out for him so it may end up being a very unlucky Coleman.

However if it was up to me I'd omit Birchall for Answerth and leave Coleman in, we will need as much pace as possible on the ground against the Tigers.

Yes, I think you're right.

I also think that Birchall is an absolute certainty to be picked for as many finals as we play.

So if I had to choose between Answerth and Coleman, I'm giving Answerth the nod, especially if we are playing Richmond.

As much as I am bullish about him, I thought Coleman looked a little off the pace one or twice last night

I think Answerth might be a more valuable commodity against the chaotic game style that the Tigers play.

 

[Mighty Lions]

Reading all this Richmond blah blah blah made me have a look at the record between Richmond and the Lions at the Gabba. Since 1997 it is 10 to 6 in Richmond's favour. They are not invincible, however they have convinced many people that they have some kind of power over the Lions. The fact is, when you step out for a contest, all recent history becomes irrelevant. You compete and if you believe in yourself and your team mates you will overcome a comparable opponent. Richmond are flawed. They have developed a system that has been bought into by all their players however, it can be exposed when you strip back the team to its elemental components. Yes, Martin is an amazing footballer, Grimes seems impenetrable across half back and a couple of their indigenous players are mercurial. But we can also argue Neale counters Martin, Andrews is better than Grimes and Charlie, McCarthy and Coleman are just as mercurial. Remember Rayner's finals campaign last year? Well, his games over the past month have been just as good. Hipwood has his confidence back and is now roosting goals from the 50 metre arc. McCluggage and Berry have no peer at Richmond. What about Robbos passion at the ball and the opponent? Don't get me started on Starce and Bailey! I love Ainswerth's aggression and look forward to him back next game. Ah Chee has been unfairly maligned and so too has Birchall. I expect to beat whoever we come up against in the Qualifying Final. I expect us to win the Preliminary Final and I have confidence in winning the GF. My advise: enjoy it. It has been a wonderful year and promises to be an unbelievable October. And, in the end, if we fall short then so be it.

Well said. Love your passion and positivity. GO LIONS!!!

 

[luthor]

Reading all this Richmond blah blah blah made me have a look at the record between Richmond and the Lions at the Gabba. Since 1997 it is 10 to 6 in Richmond's favour. They are not invincible, however they have convinced many people that they have some kind of power over the Lions. The fact is, when you step out for a contest, all recent history becomes irrelevant. You compete and if you believe in yourself and your team mates you will overcome a comparable opponent. Richmond are flawed. They have developed a system that has been bought into by all their players however, it can be exposed when you strip back the team to its elemental components. Yes, Martin is an amazing footballer, Grimes seems impenetrable across half back and a couple of their indigenous players are mercurial. But we can also argue Neale counters Martin, Andrews is better than Grimes and Charlie, McCarthy and Coleman are just as mercurial. Remember Rayner's finals campaign last year? Well, his games over the past month have been just as good. Hipwood has his confidence back and is now roosting goals from the 50 metre arc. McCluggage and Berry have no peer at Richmond. What about Robbos passion at the ball and the opponent? Don't get me started on Starce and Bailey! I love Ainswerth's aggression and look forward to him back next game. Ah Chee has been unfairly maligned and so too has Birchall. I expect to beat whoever we come up against in the Qualifying Final. I expect us to win the Preliminary Final and I have confidence in winning the GF. My advise: enjoy it. It has been a wonderful year and promises to be an unbelievable October. And, in the end, if we fall short then so be it.

Great post

I was at the QF Final in 2019 when we led them 4.6 to 3.0 at quarter time.

We were absolutely dominant in that first quarter and it's still hard for me to fathom how on earth they managed to be within 2 goals of us.

There were so many sliding doors moments that went their way and nothing that fell our way

In an alternative universe we would have been at least 6 goals up at the first break. And I mean at least.

They are beatable just like any team in any sport is.

I firmly believe that if we get our fair share of luck and can convert 50% of our scoring chances, we can beat them and any other side.

 

[QLioness]

First of was good to have Stef back.. I gave him a vote
Rich was BOG followed by Neale and Ah Chee. Hope this game stops the drop Ah Chee group you can see his worth.
Clugga was great although what is it 7-21 now
M Robbo was up against his old side.
Big O almost nearly a few times.
Hipwood I think worked out what to do now.
McCarthy was great again.. I think he also a whipping boy sometimes.
Coleman you can see he be around for a while.. Been a fav for mine in NEAFL.
Starc was good.
Payne another week where he was not overly challenged. One great punch.. good he getting eased in.

So finals.. you assume Berry in for CEY which I though did a lot of good things tonight.
Then Andrews for Payne or Lester probably depends who we playing that week.

No we not dropping McStay.. Even though I agree he seems to go missing a lot.
Structure too late to change and honestly Skinner or Ballenden did not show more. Fullerton I liked.

McStay last night = 5 disposals at 20% efficiency. Skinner against Richmond (where he was the whipping boy) = 7 disposals at 71% efficiency. Let’s get some consistency in what we see ffs

 

[Dalions]

Yes, I think you're right.

I also think that Birchall is an absolute certainty to be picked for as many finals as we play.

So if I had to choose between Answerth and Coleman, I'm giving Answerth the nod, especially if we are playing Richmond.

As much as I am bullish about him, I thought Coleman looked a little off the pace one or twice last night

I think Answerth might be a more valuable commodity against the chaotic game style that the Tigers play.

Yep and either Richmond or Geelong will be a step up on Carlton.
With a full season into him next year Coleman will be Rip raring and ready to go for finals.

 

[martinson]

Hey Tassie4ever & other sledgers, you probably dont need reminding but to make a point I am going to:

2017: Last
2018: 15th
2019: Equal Top, 2nd on %
2020: Currently outright top.

The current forward line really hasnt changed much this year from last year & we are again TOP OF THE LADDER but apparently we have 2 key forwards who are spuds & dont deserve their spots or arent putting in each week. Other names thrown around: unprofessional, pissed off, ill, not good enougfh effort wise..... I can go on but I wont because its simply way off the mark.

Heads up..... YOU DONT FINNISH ON TOP OF THE LADDER WITH BOTH KEY FORWARDS AS BAD AS YOU DESCRIBE THEM.

Seriously lacking appreciation & gratitude of what the team produces for us supporters. What else should they have done to be better thus far in 2020? Is there a better position to finish other than on top of the ladder?

What an emotional load of drivel.

So any justified criticism of a player is automatically skewed into lacking appreciation and gratitude ,whatever that means , and we wash over parts of our game because we're on top of the ladder.

If you want a blog where everyone just ra ra's about everything associated with the club that's fine.

I much prefer an analysis of how we're going, who's good and who needs to lift , and generally do what anyone intelligent does ,which is to take apart the pieces that make up a performance and try to work out why we did so well and where we could improve.

 

[cotter101]

I don't think Coleman will get dropped. I think Berry comes in and if we get lucky Andrews does too - that'd be it.

Would be unlucky if he did. I was more looking at match ups and thought it’s probably more ideal having someone playing a shut down role on Vlastuin.

But then again could argue Coleman’s ball use and composure could be a big plus against them too.

Tough decisions.

 

[martinson]

I think we had our best team in last night with the exception of two stars in Berry and Andrews.

I don't see any changes apart from the obvious if one or either of those come in.

I see the only one under threat being Coleman , not on performance to date for where he's at in his career , but more for whether we had anyone more experienced for the role or perhaps if they decided to bring in Answerth and move Ah Chee forward. I don't see Answerth improving the backline as it is so it's unlikely.

 

[martinson]

If Harris isn't ready as seems likely it's a huge ask for Payne to be the one big guy in defence against say a Richmond , but we don't have any other options. Stef being back helps because it means our rucks might have the juice to drop back and give Payne some support.

 

[luthor]

I think we had our best team in last night with the exception of two stars in Berry and Andrews.

I don't see any changes apart from the obvious if one or either of those come in.

I see the only one under threat being Coleman , not on performance to date for where he's at in his career , but more for whether we had anyone more experienced for the role or perhaps if they decided to bring in Answerth and move Ah Chee forward. I don't see Answerth improving the backline as it is so it's unlikely.

Answerth improves the back line IMO.

You would have to be dead set unlucky to be "managed" and then dropped the next time the side is picked.

"Managed" suggests just that. Otherwise you are just dropped to start with.

Considering that Bez is more than capable at half forward, I'm tipping Bez and Answerth in and Coleman and CEY out

Having said that, if they come up with a team that still has Coleman in it, I won't be demanding an explanation from Fages or the Match Committee

Of course if HA comes up, that would be a delicious added bonus.

 

[3KZ is Football]

McStay last night = 5 disposals at 20% efficiency. Skinner against Richmond (where he was the whipping boy) = 7 disposals at 71% efficiency. Let’s get some consistency in what we see ffs

Absolutely correct.

 

[jackess]

Anyone quoting stats to judge McStay deserves a permaban

 

[3KZ is Football]

Great post

I was at the QF Final in 2019 when we led them 4.6 to 3.0 at quarter time.

We were absolutely dominant in that first quarter and it's still hard for me to fathom how on earth they managed to be within 2 goals of us.

There were so many sliding doors moments that went their way and nothing that fell our way

In an alternative universe we would have been at least 6 goals up at the first break. And I mean at least.

They are beatable just like any team in any sport is.

I firmly believe that if we get our fair share of luck and can convert 50% of our scoring chances, we can beat them and any other side.

If we play Richmond in the QF, time should be set aside for the players to watch how Port Adelaide beat them.

 

[Nunez]

Absolutely correct.

How many disposals do you get if you take the oppositions best intercept defender and keep him away from the ball?

How many disposals do you get for pressure?

How many disposals do you get for not getting outmarked?

Your use of stats is akin to hearing 10 seconds of a film and turning it off. You seemingly refuse to consider the role McStay plays impacting his stats. He was clearly kept deeper on the weekend and was primarily stopping his man from marking the ball and clearing space so the smalls could get to work. It was a rainy night - his role was done quite well, as was Hipwoods (only 9 touches and one goal as our primary KPF? By your metric that's terrible).

Your agreement with Qlioness about Skinner to justify your anti-McStay campaign is also bizarre. If you recall his second game, he struggled to make contests and got outmarked several times. He was a liability as he wasn't even breaking even which for our team and gameplan is the best metric to judge them by. A KPF that brings the ball to ground allowing our smalls to score is invaluable to how we play.

 

[snooplions]

if our kicking yips are truly gone we will beat Richmond at the Gabba, just like we should have last year.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

if our kicking yips are truly gone we will beat Richmond at the Gabba, just like we should have last year.

Might be a bit more to it than that.

 

[3KZ is Football]

How many disposals do you get if you take the oppositions best intercept defender and keep him away from the ball?

How many disposals do you get for pressure?

How many disposals do you get for not getting outmarked?

Your use of stats is akin to hearing 10 seconds of a film and turning it off. You seemingly refuse to consider the role McStay plays impacting his stats. He was clearly kept deeper on the weekend and was primarily stopping his man from marking the ball and clearing space so the smalls could get to work. It was a rainy night - his role was done quite well, as was Hipwoods (only 9 touches and one goal as our primary KPF? By your metric that's terrible).

Your agreement with Qlioness about Skinner to justify your anti-McStay campaign is also bizarre. If you recall his second game, he struggled to make contests and got outmarked several times. He was a liability as he wasn't even breaking even which for our team and gameplan is the best metric to judge them by. A KPF that brings the ball to ground allowing our smalls to score is invaluable to how we play.

Hey Nunez, I think DERRINALPHIL ran the tape over that last point you made and it was more ‘urban myth’ than reality. It is not supported by much actual vision from games. I just happen to agree with QLioness. I’d like to see Skinner get another run.

 

[martinson]

How many disposals do you get if you take the oppositions best intercept defender and keep him away from the ball?

How many disposals do you get for pressure?

How many disposals do you get for not getting outmarked?

Your use of stats is akin to hearing 10 seconds of a film and turning it off. You seemingly refuse to consider the role McStay plays impacting his stats. He was clearly kept deeper on the weekend and was primarily stopping his man from marking the ball and clearing space so the smalls could get to work. It was a rainy night - his role was done quite well, as was Hipwoods (only 9 touches and one goal as our primary KPF? By your metric that's terrible).

Your agreement with Qlioness about Skinner to justify your anti-McStay campaign is also bizarre. If you recall his second game, he struggled to make contests and got outmarked several times. He was a liability as he wasn't even breaking even which for our team and gameplan is the best metric to judge them by. A KPF that brings the ball to ground allowing our smalls to score is invaluable to how we play.

I get it.

I still think you're overrating what he allegedly does.

If you watch the match again he didn't chase and fumbled most times he was near the ball. I doubt it was kicked to a contested mark situation where he was more than a handful of times. iirc all of our goals in the 1st and 2nd quarters were from marks or frees that emanated from the M/F or back half. Hipwood took their best player and largely negated him.

I think we're all done but I'm completely bemused at people taking a game of someone who's played poorly and pretending that they played well.

It didn't matter much ,we were going to win anyway. Our next match is the one that really counts.

Let's hope he has a blinder.

 

[FLVanLandingham]

was watching some highlights of last year. McCluggage was extremely comfortable snapping goal in traffic. This year he seemingly has the innate ability to miss everything. Sure he is almost always under quite a bit of pressure.. but my golly. And then there is the posters. I could swear he has hit the post more than anyone else this year.

Hopefully he can switch it on for the finals, otherwise I want no one other than McCarthy, Rayner and Bailey kicking set shots. Not sure anyone has been reliable in traffic, Zorko has also been errant in that regard this year.

 

[Tom14]

Hey Nunez, I think DERRINALPHIL ran the tape over that last point you made and it was more ‘urban myth’ than reality. It is not supported by much actual vision from games. I just happen to agree with QLioness. I’d like to see Skinner get another run.

It took me literally 5 minutes to run the tape last week and prove that nonsense wrong. Don’t make me do it again!

 

[DERRINALPHIL]

I get it.

I still think you're overrating what he allegedly does.

If you watch the match again he didn't chase and fumbled most times he was near the ball. I doubt it was kicked to a contested mark situation where he was more than a handful of times. iirc all of our goals in the 1st and 2nd quarters were from marks or frees that emanated from the M/F or back half. Hipwood took their best player and largely negated him.

I think we're all done but I'm completely bemused at people taking a game of someone who's played poorly and pretending that they played well.

It didn't matter much ,we were going to win anyway. Our next match is the one that really counts.

Let's hope he has a blinder.

We all want the bold bit.

 

[Section 5]

Regarding Coleman
Just finished watching replay
While Coleman was about to kick his goal
Wayne Richardson said "so is he (Coleman) a certainty for the finals Hodgy" reply "ah yes i think so mate" then went on to say a few things about him and that he is highly regarded at the Club
So maybe Coleman holds his spot.
Going to be hard on a few players that don't get selected

 

[TheZork]

Geez, lately there has been a facebook/social media level of drivel on this board regarding some of our players. I come here to avoid exactly that

 

[DERRINALPHIL]

It took me literally 5 minutes to run the tape last week and prove that nonsense wrong. Don’t make me do it again!

I could have replied last week and pointed out that Dam had the sit in that one and should have taken an easy mark but fumbled it. The McStay apologists keep saying that Dan brings the ball to ground and this is somehow a good thing. It would be, if he did it when it was against the run of play or if he was out numbered, but this rarely happens.

I did not bother to reply in this vain last week, as I was being conciliatory but the quoted passage of play was about the only time where Dan didn't dominate during a game that he played the way I hoped he would play when I first noticed him at the MCG many years ago.. He brought the ball to ground . Yes. He dropped the mark. Yes

If you are of this view of Dan as a great spoiler of intercept marks you need to come up with examples that support your point of view, not show the opposite view.

Please come up with 5 instances when Dan competed well against the Blues and brought the ball to ground because I have several screen shots saved where he was a spectator during yesterday's match

 

[cotter101]

I don’t think conditions were really suited for tall forwards. McKay might’ve kicked 3 but he has been playing very good footy on some good defenders but probably kicked more accurate against us. And let’s be real, he’s a talent.

The calls to drop McStay are crazy. We simply don’t have anyone that could replace him either.