Preview Round 18, 2020: St.Kilda v GWS - Gabba, Friday 18th September, 7:50PM AEST *MARSHALL 50TH*

Who Wins?

  • Saints

    Votes: 52 64.2%
  • Giants

    Votes: 29 35.8%

  • Total voters
    81

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JG22

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Yep that Talent has them sitting in 12th spot,with just about a Miracle needed to play Finals
The game hasn’t been played yet, just take it as it is.

He identified other areas of our advantage in defensive transition, Ryders prominence and the use of Bradley Hill. It’s no secret they have the better midfield collective than us
 

True Blue Saint

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3:40 of the Ratts interview on the official website.

"Yeah we did go small against West Coast and we did pay a bit of a price for it, but some of our organisation behind the ball let us down as well. We had smalls on talls, and talls on smalls, and that's not the way to go about it"

Can I ask, whose fault is that? The coaching staff? The runners not getting messages of positional changes to the players quick enough? Or the on-field leadership (given we are talking about our defence - Geary?) not being vocal to switch players around?
 

tomjoad

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Jun 17, 2018
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3:40 of the Ratts interview on the official website.

"Yeah we did go small against West Coast and we did pay a bit of a price for it, but some of our organisation behind the ball let us down as well. We had smalls on talls, and talls on smalls, and that's not the way to go about it"

Can I ask, whose fault is that? The coaching staff? The runners not getting messages of positional changes to the players quick enough? Or the on-field leadership (given we are talking about our defence - Geary?) not being vocal to switch players around?

On field leadership...and a lack of Carlisle. Our guys are not used to being in this position. We haven't had a season since 2011 where finals have been a realistic possibility...we've had mathematical possibilities, but never a true probability, until now. It's a new terrain, and these guys have never managed to climb this high before. They're going to have to reach the standard that the team demands of the occasion...and do it bloody sharpish.
 

JG22

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Gearys basically there as captain and largely a backline co ordinator. He’s not the primary small back man, that’s Ben Paton. But Ratts & co clearly trust Gears and want him in regardless.

Still not sure what happens there next year, I feel better it’s time but I can’t imagine Gears will want to leave football.

Carlisle needs to get his head together and actually lead that back line, but I’m not sure he’s really gifted in that spot.
 

The_Steadier

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Can I ask, whose fault is that? The coaching staff? The runners not getting messages of positional changes to the players quick enough? Or the on-field leadership (given we are talking about our defence - Geary?) not being vocal to switch players around?
Or simply a young team (which had its backline rearranged) not having played together for years.

Plus they haven't been able to train/practice much due to lots of games in a short space of time this year.

As opposed to west coasts backline for instance who have all played together for years and know what eachother are gonna do.

You could have abraham lincoln, napoleon and winston churchill down there as 'leaders' and it wouldn't count for squat if they've only played a handful of games together.

If you want someone to 'blame' for our backline not being as cohesive as west coasts- blame the list managers that have taken 8 years of no finals to finally assemble a decent starting 22.

From here it's gonna take a couple more years before they really gel together- no different to every other genuinely good team
 

Saintbloke

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Apr 26, 2015
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3:40 of the Ratts interview on the official website.

"Yeah we did go small against West Coast and we did pay a bit of a price for it, but some of our organisation behind the ball let us down as well. We had smalls on talls, and talls on smalls, and that's not the way to go about it"

Can I ask, whose fault is that? The coaching staff? The runners not getting messages of positional changes to the players quick enough? Or the on-field leadership (given we are talking about our defence - Geary?) not being vocal to switch players around?
Ratts probably needs to spend a bit more time up in the coaches box, rather than at ground level?
 

St Kilda Death

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Sep 18, 2013
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3:40 of the Ratts interview on the official website.

"Yeah we did go small against West Coast and we did pay a bit of a price for it, but some of our organisation behind the ball let us down as well. We had smalls on talls, and talls on smalls, and that's not the way to go about it"

Can I ask, whose fault is that? The coaching staff? The runners not getting messages of positional changes to the players quick enough? Or the on-field leadership (given we are talking about our defence - Geary?) not being vocal to switch players around?
consider geary is dealing with
howard 61 games experience
clark 44
long 43
wilkie 38
coff 33
paton 32
then consider they have only been playing together for under 16 games.
and only a few without Jake as well.

And it sounds like ratts is demanding better.
should improve.
 

austinnn

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I watched the Eagles game today with clearer vision not destroyed by disappointment and frustration. I skipped some of the bits where we were in the ascendancy to try and get a handle on what went wrong.

In the 3rd quarter it was in our F50 98% of the time, for a result of 4 behinds to their 3. We were in front for over half the game. We had plenty of chances to win, so why didn't we?

Firstly, Liam Ryan and Tim Kelly turned many half chances into goals. It seemed like our tagging efforts were loose, but I'd say rather than that being a measure of the ineptitude of Steele or Ross, it's more that Ratts backed them to play their game without worrying too much on the opposition. He backed us to win, can't blame him for that as we nearly did and looked good against them for much of the game. However, this was one instance where a couple of gun players beat a more level team effort.

Also, as Ratts said we were often mismatched as the ball came into our defensive area. Carlisle would absolutely have helped, no point in going further there.

But I think the biggest reason we list is that the forwards just didn't take their chances. King is so out of form it's surprising he's not been omitted. It's his first year, it's totally normal that he would fade at some stage, at the start of the year none of us could have guessed that he'd be used as much as he has. He's slower on the lead, and his radar is off. He looks exhausted. Membrey has been terrible the last month especially, and the Eagle defenders weren't letting our small forwards were anywhere near the footy.

Can these problems be fixed or avoided?
 

CaptainRisky

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Oct 16, 2016
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The game hasn’t been played yet, just take it as it is.

He identified other areas of our advantage in defensive transition, Ryders prominence and the use of Bradley Hill. It’s no secret they have the better midfield collective than us
Yeah , those getting cocky should be very wary , this is our saints we are talking about who have a habit of turning a certain victory into defeat , i cant believe the poll here
 

BrutThough

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Yeah , those getting cocky should be very wary , this is our saints we are talking about who have a habit of turning a certain victory into defeat , i cant believe the poll here
What's not believable about the poll?

Saints supports think we will beat a team we current sit above on the ladder and have 11% on. A team that has convincingly lost to Adelaide and Sydney in the last month while we have had close losses against two of the top 5 teams and shot ourselves in the foot against Melbourne when we didnt adjust well to Alice Springs.
 

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Mowman

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What's not believable about the poll?

Saints supports think we will beat a team we current sit above on the ladder and have 11% on. A team that has convincingly lost to Adelaide and Sydney in the last month while we have had close losses against two of the top 5 teams and shot ourselves in the foot against Melbourne when we didnt adjust well to Alice Springs.
What do you mean we didn't adjust to Alice Springs ?
 

CaptainRisky

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What's not believable about the poll?

Saints supports think we will beat a team we current sit above on the ladder and have 11% on. A team that has convincingly lost to Adelaide and Sydney in the last month while we have had close losses against two of the top 5 teams and shot ourselves in the foot against Melbourne when we didnt adjust well to Alice Springs.
Because we have no composure during tight games and no leadership but in saying that neither do they so that's why it will just come down to the class of the cattle
 

BrutThough

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What do you mean we didn't adjust to Alice Springs ?
Re-watching that game, we really struggled adjusting the game plan the bigger ground. We played dumb football that night and got lost in that extra space.

Thats not something we will have to worry about this week since it is a smaller ground that we have played at and seen our system holds up at.
 

Saintbloke

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Apr 26, 2015
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I watched the Eagles game today with clearer vision not destroyed by disappointment and frustration. I skipped some of the bits where we were in the ascendancy to try and get a handle on what went wrong.

In the 3rd quarter it was in our F50 98% of the time, for a result of 4 behinds to their 3. We were in front for over half the game. We had plenty of chances to win, so why didn't we?

Firstly, Liam Ryan and Tim Kelly turned many half chances into goals. It seemed like our tagging efforts were loose, but I'd say rather than that being a measure of the ineptitude of Steele or Ross, it's more that Ratts backed them to play their game without worrying too much on the opposition. He backed us to win, can't blame him for that as we nearly did and looked good against them for much of the game. However, this was one instance where a couple of gun players beat a more level team effort.

Also, as Ratts said we were often mismatched as the ball came into our defensive area. Carlisle would absolutely have helped, no point in going further there.

But I think the biggest reason we list is that the forwards just didn't take their chances. King is so out of form it's surprising he's not been omitted. It's his first year, it's totally normal that he would fade at some stage, at the start of the year none of us could have guessed that he'd be used as much as he has. He's slower on the lead, and his radar is off. He looks exhausted. Membrey has been terrible the last month especially, and the Eagle defenders weren't letting our small forwards were anywhere near the footy.

Can these problems be fixed or avoided?
You cant win games without a functioning forward line- pretty simple. King is a first year player who has gone off the boil, Membrey out of form, Billings playing bruise-free footy, Hind no form, Kent mostly no form, Lonie tries hard, Butler off the boil. There's our problem.
 

CanadianSaint

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I watched the Eagles game today with clearer vision not destroyed by disappointment and frustration. I skipped some of the bits where we were in the ascendancy to try and get a handle on what went wrong.

In the 3rd quarter it was in our F50 98% of the time, for a result of 4 behinds to their 3. We were in front for over half the game. We had plenty of chances to win, so why didn't we?

Firstly, Liam Ryan and Tim Kelly turned many half chances into goals. It seemed like our tagging efforts were loose, but I'd say rather than that being a measure of the ineptitude of Steele or Ross, it's more that Ratts backed them to play their game without worrying too much on the opposition. He backed us to win, can't blame him for that as we nearly did and looked good against them for much of the game. However, this was one instance where a couple of gun players beat a more level team effort.

Also, as Ratts said we were often mismatched as the ball came into our defensive area. Carlisle would absolutely have helped, no point in going further there.

But I think the biggest reason we list is that the forwards just didn't take their chances. King is so out of form it's surprising he's not been omitted. It's his first year, it's totally normal that he would fade at some stage, at the start of the year none of us could have guessed that he'd be used as much as he has. He's slower on the lead, and his radar is off. He looks exhausted. Membrey has been terrible the last month especially, and the Eagle defenders weren't letting our small forwards were anywhere near the footy.

Can these problems be fixed or avoided?
We are young in some key areas, forward is one of them

Look at the age of our two highest goal scoring forwards compared to others in the eight:

Port: Dixon 29. Gray 32.
Brisbane: Cameron 26, Hipwood 23.
Geelong: Hawkins 32. Rohan 29.
Richmond: Lynch 27. Riewoldt 31
Weagles: Kennedy 33. Darling 28
Pies: Mihocek 27, Stephenson 21(thats right, he is their second highest scorer and he's not in the side)
Saints: Butler 24, King 20
Dogs: Wallis 28, Naughton 20.

Very young...
 

Winmar2Lockett

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Or simply a young team (which had its backline rearranged) not having played together for years.

Plus they haven't been able to train/practice much due to lots of games in a short space of time this year.

As opposed to west coasts backline for instance who have all played together for years and know what eachother are gonna do.

You could have abraham lincoln, napoleon and winston churchill down there as 'leaders' and it wouldn't count for squat if they've only played a handful of games together.

If you want someone to 'blame' for our backline not being as cohesive as west coasts- blame the list managers that have taken 8 years of no finals to finally assemble a decent starting 22.

From here it's gonna take a couple more years before they really gel together- no different to every other genuinely good team
Spot on


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

BrutThough

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Oct 2, 2010
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We are young in some key areas, forward is one of them

Look at the age of our two highest goal scoring forwards compared to others in the eight:

Port: Dixon 29. Gray 32.
Brisbane: Cameron 26, Hipwood 23.
Geelong: Hawkins 32. Rohan 29.
Richmond: Lynch 27. Riewoldt 31
Weagles: Kennedy 33. Darling 28
Pies: Mihocek 27, Stephenson 21(thats right, he is their second highest scorer and he's not in the side)
Saints: Butler 24, King 20
Dogs: Wallis 28, Naughton 20.

Very young...
This makes me excited for the next few years. We are clearly behind the top group of teams this year but we are also on a great trajectory towards 2022 when our kids start hitting their peak. And making finals this year with our current age profile would be great expereince for them moving forward.
 

Winmar2Lockett

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You cant win games without a functioning forward line- pretty simple. King is a first year player who has gone off the boil, Membrey out of form, Billings playing bruise-free footy, Hind no form, Kent mostly no form, Lonie tries hard, Butler off the boil. There's our problem.
All created by a midfield that has reverted to moving and then delivering the ball inside 50 so slowly that a long bomb is the only option.


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